Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838 
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Jul 11, 2015 17:21:48 GMT
I honestly am not really sure what this whole paragraph is about. Are you implying you're mad at how the Cousins FA was handled in terms of communication? And/or are you saying that if Paul George didn't resign with Denver, Alex would make other FAs such as Cousins go to another team out of spite?
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Magic Johnson
Former Lakers GM
Sophomore
Posts: 458
Feb 27, 2024 20:39:01 GMT
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Post by Magic Johnson on Jul 11, 2015 17:30:40 GMT
I honestly am not really sure what this whole paragraph is about. Are you implying you're mad at how the Cousins FA was handled in terms of communication? And/or are you saying that if Paul George didn't resign with Denver, Alex would make other FAs such as Cousins go to another team out of spite? Mad about about what in Cousins exactly please re-read that part about me being in Ian's league long enough and losing FA and not having issue with it. please read the entire thing again and respond, also check the first page of the thread where I also made a point about the 3 things that JR quoted. It's strictly not a a cousins issue, it's a general issue of what's to say if "player X" didn't resign with team, "player y" at another position and their GM could get screwed because of it. please check the paul george, cousins, and mozgov threads and then come back to me. |
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Jul 11, 2015 17:58:37 GMT
Even though I haven't seen many things I have liked in OFA, I have to be fair. With your arguments, rules are put into place to control events in the past from happening again. You can't go back and undo anything, you just have to move forward. Simple example is the "tuck rule" in football. The NFL can't go back and change that play just because a new rule was put into place following the event.
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JR Wiles
Rookie
Posts: 194
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Post by JR Wiles on Jul 11, 2015 18:03:58 GMT
I honestly am not really sure what this whole paragraph is about. Are you implying you're mad at how the Cousins FA was handled in terms of communication? And/or are you saying that if Paul George didn't resign with Denver, Alex would make other FAs such as Cousins go to another team out of spite? Mad about about what in Cousins exactly please re-read that part about me being in Ian's league long enough and losing FA and not having issue with it. please read the entire thing again and respond, also check the first page of the thread where I also made a point about the 3 things that JR quoted. It's strictly not a a cousins issue, it's a general issue of what's to say if "player X" didn't resign with team, "player y" at another position and their GM could get screwed because of it. please check the paul george, cousins, and mozgov threads and then come back to me. Can we please get some feedback on what Magic is talking about... Ian? Alex? The truth is out...its time to hear from all sides... |
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Magic Johnson
Former Lakers GM
Sophomore
Posts: 458
Feb 27, 2024 20:39:01 GMT
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Post by Magic Johnson on Jul 11, 2015 18:33:24 GMT
OKAY OKAY TIMEOUT EVERYONE BREATHE AND PLEASE RE-READ FROM START TO BOTTOM AGAIN SINCE THE FIRST PARAGRAPH SEEMS NOT TO MAKE SENSE FOR EVERYONE. I am not flat out accusing ALEX IS A CHEATER AND HE SHOULD BE BANISHED unlike the Gasol situation WHICH IS THE VERY FIRST SENTENCE of my paragraph that I posted, what I am saying is he kept being in a position where he can keep GAINING competitive advantage over OTHER GMS,. I am saying there should be EVEN PLAYING FIELD FOR EVERYONE as far as the FIRST 2 POINTS and also a BIT in point 3. JUST LIKE JOSH gained competitive advantage over everyone else for Lance Stephenson and then there being a rule in place to make sure that doesn't happen again. In point number 2, two particular teams argued strongly against hardcap limits and percentages so they have time to reduce salary that's not a competitive edge for those teams over the 28 other teams?  ? Kevin Hollis also posted that there's nothing you can do about the tuck rule and you can move on (just to use NFL analogy), which in first 2 points was made (the rule changes, although the 2nd still favors overly out of control 130 million plus cap teams). Fair Enough.NOW back to point 3 AND ALSO THIS IS NOT STRICTLY A COUSINS ISSUE for the Free Agency thing, I am referring to IMPARTIALITY AND OBJECTIVITY of it, again look at the date and timing of those signings, it is TOO COINCIDENTAL for a key FA to resign with his team while the position of PA releases the players of their teams slightly a little later, NOW that point can be averted like with what Walt said with him being busy and saying he has a lot to do, which is fine because atleast that clears up confusion of what's really going on and we know NOTHING STRANGE IS. I am saying how do we KNOW that there isn't going to be a vested agenda or personal agenda part of it where if a PA is to lose their FA at a different position, the position HE IS REPRESENTING he screws some teams OVER because of that. |
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 27, 2024 0:26:00 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2015 18:44:25 GMT
OKAY OKAY TIMEOUT EVERYONE BREATHE AND PLEASE RE-READ FROM START TO BOTTOM AGAIN SINCE THE FIRST PARAGRAPH SEEMS NOT TO MAKE SENSE FOR EVERYONE. I am not flat out accusing ALEX IS A CHEATER AND HE SHOULD BE BANISHED unlike the Gasol situation WHICH IS THE VERY FIRST SENTENCE of my paragraph that I posted, what I am saying is he kept being in a position where he can keep GAINING competitive advantage over OTHER GMS. I know anything I say will probably be scrutinized by Ian, but I did not intend to say Alex cheated in any way, shape, or form because I possess no proof. Rather, I said it looked fishy given the history of at least one of the parties involved and the way he talked to me during the negotiations. I support Magic's reforms but I just going to shut up now. I really don't care about winning or losing now, I did but I realize it's hard to do it for whatever reason, and I three statements people made to me really stuck with me: #1: Barber told me to "just have fun and rebuild." He's right, but I couldn't do that with Sacramento. I am excited about potentially starting fresh without any pressure. From now on, I will build my team via the draft and not bid on FA or maybe just marginal free agents. #2: Jeremiah said I was "just trying to cause more problems" in the chat and that's no true. I always considered Jeremiah a friend so his statement hurt me, but it made me realize that I will lose 25 to 30 friends if I leave this league. #3: Alex and Glenn collectively seem to want to put this behind us and so am I. Hopefully it will serve as a lesson for everyone in the future. Although I still a little upset by a few comments about my mental health, I am willing to just put it aside for the good of the friends I made in this league. |
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Post by Ian Noble on Jul 11, 2015 18:50:42 GMT
Vlade's Facebook message read:
I didn't enable his account just so I could read more of his nonsense, so I'm going to do him a favour and delete his account for him.
edit: and block his IP address.
The good people who work their asses off, for free, for this league, have endured enough utter bullshit for one lifetime.
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Post by Alex English on Jul 11, 2015 18:52:42 GMT
There is a lot of weird shit going on in this post, but lets break it down: 1. Isn't more rule change then anything, but compared to now where GMS have to keep 3 FULL calendar years for bird rights, resigning Harden without 3 bird rights competitive advantage over everyone else now, also no cap holds factor. (advantage DEN over other GMS) I keep all my PMs, so here is the full story on how the bird rights tweak came to be: Will I have Harden's bird rights when his contract expires? I may be making a trade where I take on long term salary that would put me over the cap for a few years, so I need some confirmation on this first. Thanks. As the definition stands right now, no you wouldn't have his bird rights./ I don't think it's going to change any time soon either, sorry. I completely understand. I do think 3 years is an incredibly long time in a sim league and considering we don't have tradeable bird rights like the NBA it makes keeping your team together much more difficult than it is in real life. I would support some kind of loosening of the rules whether that would be making bird rights at 2 years or something else, I don't know, just some thoughts. Anyway, thanks for the answer. I agree, in fact I've re-clarified the rules so that you do have Harden's bird rights: click here. Conspiracy revealed! Is it as juicy as you thought it would be? The trade I mentioned there, which was what prompted the PM, was the one where I took on Brendan Haywood's huge contract as part of my Chris Bosh trade. If Ian had left it all the same, then you know what? I wouldn't have done that trade. Seriously check it out, I even bring it up in my reasoning for making the deal. What I would have done instead is preserve my cap space to be able to keep Harden. 2. Although Mr. Hill suggested the hard-cap MIA and DEN in particular absolutely went insane over the "amount" you'd think they wanted one time amnesty over it but there was a 6 page discussion over that hardcap length and the percentage amount for each year. (again advantage DEN over other GMS). Please provide quotes of me going insane. No baseless accusations, bring the evidence. Also, if the hard cap is such a threat to my team, why didn't I argue against it? Wouldn't that make the most sense? Josh Barber did, so I wouldn't have been alone. But I thought there was some merit to the idea.3. Now to point 3 which I explained to you in PM. I gave you the screenshot when I got response back from the SF PA for PG that area no problem standard consistent. Here is where I have the problem. Look at the date George resigned vs releasing the top centers guys like DeAndre and Cousins should already be resigned to their team if strongly given considered or given amount to, but mainly Cousins and Mozgov signed RIGHT AFTER George did on the 7TH. The timing is way too close if it was a "race" for top center FA. That is WAY TOO COINCIDENTAL for it to be true, maybe one or two FA can randomly happen but that's after maybe 1 or 2 high quality FA resigns with team before say a important player resigns with that PA team (so say for instance cousins and deandre resigns, then george resigns or he happens to get draymond green or parsons, then after that the center PA releases mozgov, varejao, and others to teams). What's to say if he lost George he would still be able to look at FA signings objectively and with impartiality, I lose George so now I screw others over with losing Cousins, DeAndre, Gasol, Mozgov, Chandler etc. Paul George was the fourth player to sign this offseason. Why do you say Cousins and DeAndre should have already signed given that George went so early in the process? The only guys that went before him were Alexis Ajinca, Rodney Stuckey and LaMarcus Aldridge. Also it was said when free agency opened that signings wouldn't happen until around July 7th. The 4 guys above went on July 6th and everyone else came on July 7th or later. Given that offers had been discussed for almost a week is it really surprising that a lot of signings came out in a short amount of time? In addition the lack of communication is also irritating, I said at the very beginning of FA for PA even if players never sign with team please give them consistent feedbacks maybe 2 or 3, after initial with DEN I never got updates on it, I lost plenty of free agents in the past so like I said that is not an issue but the difference is I got constant communication and updates from Bryan, Danny, and Walt. Even though Vlade and Alex had a threatening and volatile responses when they spoke to each other, there was still communication there. Ok. Here is where you might actually have a point. I probably could have done a better job communicating with you. But while I never sent more than the initial feedback, you never PMed me again for any reason, whether it be asking for updates or to improve an offer. In every one of our PM convos I was the one who sent the last reply. Most other GMs have been asking for updates or wanting to know how they can improve their offers, but nothing like that came from you. Now lets look at what I actually said with Marc Gasol for example: Thank you for your offer. Marc is open to the idea of playing for the Lakers, however as with your other offers, your team's best long term player is also a center. Also, the amount of this offer is a lot and likely more than what Marc would ultimately sign for. Marc will continue to consider the Lakers but at this time this is not his number one option. I've clearly said your offer is trailing behind others and that Vucevic is a hindrance to your pursuits. Yea I could have sent you a later message saying you were 100% eliminated from contention, but I think feedback like that puts the ball in your court to try and improve your standing. But again, I didn't get a single follow-up message from you regarding any of the players you sent offers for. ONE last point I'd make yes in this league if say a PA is interested in position for one player say PG for example and he is also interested in PG, there will be completely different PA for the competition to receive and get that player. But what about in situations such as this where a PA is in completely different position has no interest in that position but in position number 2 has a player he wants to sign or resign, if he loses that player what's to say his impartiality and objectivity won't get affected at the PA position that he is originally in and screw other GM's over. Just like how can you be sure that's blatant and not simply a coincidence, but at the same time how can anyone be sure that had PG13 left for another team, that Cousins, DeAndre, Mozgov, Chandler moves on to another team out of spite. Yes you can make the argument that maybe the GM was busy, had real life issues, or nah you are making too much out of nothing type of situation, or the fact that the PA is stalling for personally vested reasons. Those can be easily addressed too, like Walt he posted in shoutbox numerous times in this FA that he is busy and because he has ridiculous amount of top SF he has to address it'll take lot of time so there's transparency there. This is a hypothetical, so it's kind of hard to make a solid response against it. But since some of you GMs complain over the most inconsequential factors of a free agent signing, if a PA was acting with spite and anger then I think it would come out pretty quickly. |
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Post by Alex English on Jul 11, 2015 18:55:15 GMT
Can we please get some feedback on what Magic is talking about... Ian? Alex? The truth is out...its time to hear from all sides... What truth? I'm pretty confused as to what his problem is. What about the timings is suspicions? What issues are you looking to get a response about? |
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Post by Alex English on Jul 11, 2015 19:04:39 GMT
AND ALSO THIS IS NOT STRICTLY A COUSINS ISSUE for the Free Agency thing, I am referring to IMPARTIALITY AND OBJECTIVITY of it, again look at the date and timing of those signings, it is TOO COINCIDENTAL for a key FA to resign with his team while the position of PA releases the players of their teams slightly a little later, NOW that point can be averted like with what Walt said with him being busy and saying he has a lot to do, which is fine because atleast that clears up confusion of what's really going on and we know NOTHING STRANGE IS. I am saying how do we KNOW that there isn't going to be a vested agenda or personal agenda part of it where if a PA is to lose their FA at a different position, the position HE IS REPRESENTING he screws some teams OVER because of that. I still have no idea what you're issue is about the signings? What about the signings is too coincidental? Cousins came down to OKC and Charlotte. Mozgov came down to Brooklyn and New Orleans. How is it odd that those two could come out so close to each other when all the team involved are different? In what way am I supposedly profiting off of this situation? Please explain, as if you were me, how I've set things up to improve my own position. Because I sure as hell don't understand. Besides Paul George was a lock to re-sign with me from the moment free agency opened. I was hardly stressing over it. In fact I was so preoccupied with the draft and my own PA duties that I realized like 4 or 5 days had passed since I messaged Walt about Paul George. I sent my first offer as soon as FA opened, then not again until July 5th. Then things progressed quickly and he signed later on the 6th. |
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Jul 11, 2015 19:19:33 GMT
There's a lot in here, but I just want to reiterate something that Ian said in a different thread- it's great to see everyone so passionate about their teams and about this league. We have something truly unique here with a community all of our own. I'm excited for the future of D5!
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Jul 11, 2015 19:22:20 GMT
Mozgov came down to Brooklyn and New Orleans.This means both Mozgov and Monroe came down to me and the Pelicans. Thanks for the front-court, Brian Scalabrine  |
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Post by Alex English on Jul 11, 2015 19:27:37 GMT
Mozgov came down to Brooklyn and New Orleans.This means both Mozgov and Monroe came down to me and the Pelicans. Thanks for the front-court, Brian Scalabrine Yea, Scal is Bad Luck Brian this offseason.  |
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Spike Lee
Former Knicks GM
Sophomore
Posts: 366
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Post by Spike Lee on Jul 11, 2015 20:19:32 GMT
Did you say the same thing to Glenn regarding Drummond?
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Post by James Kay on Jul 11, 2015 20:23:01 GMT
Did you say the same thing to Glenn regarding Drummond? No because Drummond is like the 3rd or 4th best player on the bucks |
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Post by Alex English on Jul 11, 2015 20:45:35 GMT
Did you say the same thing to Glenn regarding Drummond? It was mentioned: Thank you for the offer. The idea of joining Anthony Davis and the Bucks is very intriguing. The amount of this offer is also quite impressive. An obvious concern though is that you already Andre Drummond on your roster, though we understand you are willing to trade him. At this time this is one of Marc's best offers, but he is not ready to make any commitments at this time. Like James Kay said though, it wasn't quite as big a deal since Drummond didn't hold the same importance on the Bucks as Vucevic does for the Lakers. I think it's time to start letting go now. Everyone who still hasn't accepted this deal is going to have to move on. I think I've done a pretty good job addressing all the concerns that came out of this clusterfuck, but it's done now. I can't answer questions until the end of time. If Ian was going to reverse this signing or make any other significant decisions then he would have done it ages ago. You can second guess and say you would have done it differently but it doesn't matter at this point. Marc Gasol plays for the Bucks. Let's start focusing on other things. |
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Magic Johnson
Former Lakers GM
Sophomore
Posts: 458
Feb 27, 2024 20:39:01 GMT
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Post by Magic Johnson on Jul 11, 2015 21:00:42 GMT
1. for point 1 nice try to being a spin doctor with the conspiracy comment and saying I thought it was juicy, and actually your PM validates my point that you did benefit from the rule modification. A team possesses the bird rights to a player if that player has 3 years left on their contract when they join the team.A team is given the 'Bird Rights' to one of their players if that player has not changed teams for three seasons or more. Bird Rights allow teams to exceed the salary cap when re-signing players.
the first quote gave you the advantage with Harden not like now where teams are following quote two of it and trying to get 3 full complete seasons instead of just "contracts" being 3 years long. 2. The "insane" comment was a little harsh from me so I apologize for that, and I never said you didn't welcome it, I disputed that you guys didn't like the "amount" that Ian and the others originally proposed. Id be for a hard cap, and now seems like a perfect time to try to implement one We should time our introduction of the hard cap with the 2016-17 season where the the soft cap may rise to something like $80 - $90 from the TV deal. Instead of a percentage, I think our hard cap should follow the leagues "apron" ($4 mill over the luxury tax line, were the nba starts kicking in punishments). Just for example, this years apron was at about $81 mill. i think the best thing about adopting the apron as our hard cap is that the apron is the closest thing the nba has to a hard cap currently. In tandem with a hard cap that's 1 1/2 years out, i think we throw in a selective amnesty clause for a few teams. Depending on what happens to the luxury tax and apron when the cap jumps, this seems like a really low number. There are currently 7 teams with a salary above 80,000,000. Then looking at my salary, after re-signing Paul George and Kyrie Irving, my payroll will probably be higher than $140,000,000 in the 2016-17 season. What after Ian's original 230 percent it was revised to In that case, the next four years would look like: 2014/15 - $113,517,000 (180% of salary cap) 2015/16 - $107,210,500 (170% of salary cap) 2016/17 - $100,904,000 (160% of salary cap) 2017/18 - $94,597,500 (150% of salary cap) After the Heat explanation that you gave on page 2 of that thread, your suggestion was For implementing it slow enough I think we could go: 2015-16: 225% 2016-17: 200% 2017-18: 175% The 225% level for this offseason is high enough that it won't penalize GMs for breaking rules that didn't previously exist, and 3 seasons should be long enough for GMs to react. Ian posted his big response while I was writing mine and I agree with a lot of what he said. I never would have traded for Josh Smith if we had a hard cap. Then having to re-sign Paul George, plus my MLE, I figure I need at most 25 million. With the 114 million I have committed to next year already I need at least 140 million to not be penalized. As I talked about in the other post Miami needs even more than that. We can't go lower than 175%, and I think that number only works with the fact that we're getting a huge bump in the cap for the 2016-17 season. Page 3 of the hardcap thread while responding to Brian when he disagreed with amnesty at the time and also the percentage, he agreed with you that 150 was low but 175 was high so he had a middle ground of 160. "I don't think it's unfair. All the teams under the cap will be able to use the amnesty as well. The NBA has had the amnesty clause as part of both of the last CBA negotiations. It would make sense for us to have it if we're going to implement such a big rule into our own salary cap." "We don't know exactly what the cap will be. We don't know how the new TV contract is structured. The NBA also wants to limit the cap in some way when the new deal comes into effect so there won't be such a big jump. Also your look at my team in 2 years ignores Paul George. He'll have an enormous contract starting next season. I guarantee just keeping the two of them will cost more than 30 million which takes me over 135 million right there. Then I still have role players to sign on top of that. My salary will definitely exceed 135 million in two years." Then after that walt and you had a disagreement about size of the contracts (page 3 literally all of it too much to post here). Eventually everyone's comments from pages 1 to 6 (including yours) culminated to Fast Forward to 2016 now DEN 136 million, hard cap 147, then of course hard cap will increase probably in the 170's, next season when the billionaire deal kicks in, again advantage DEN over other teams. |
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Magic Johnson
Former Lakers GM
Sophomore
Posts: 458
Feb 27, 2024 20:39:01 GMT
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Post by Magic Johnson on Jul 11, 2015 21:01:53 GMT
1. for the Vucevic Gasol thing, like I said it doesn't bother me that I didn't get Gasol, Cousins or DeAndre, I have been in Ian's league long enough where I didn't get star FA outside of that one time with Lebron.
2. "Paul George was the fourth player to sign this offseason. Why do you say Cousins and DeAndre should have already signed given that George went so early in the process? The only guys that went before him were Alexis Ajinca, Rodney Stuckey and LaMarcus Aldridge. Also it was said when free agency opened that signings wouldn't happen until around July 7th. The 4 guys above went on July 6th and everyone else came on July 7th or later. Given that offers had been discussed for almost a week is it really surprising that a lot of signings came out in a short amount of time?"
I still have no idea what you're issue is about the signings? What about the signings is too coincidental? Cousins came down to OKC and Charlotte. Mozgov came down to Brooklyn and New Orleans. How is it odd that those two could come out so close to each other when all the team involved are different?
In what way am I supposedly profiting off of this situation? Please explain, as if you were me, how I've set things up to improve my own position. Because I sure as hell don't understand.
"Besides Paul George was a lock to re-sign with me from the moment free agency opened. I was hardly stressing over it. In fact I was so preoccupied with the draft and my own PA duties that I realized like 4 or 5 days had passed since I messaged Walt about Paul George. I sent my first offer as soon as FA opened, then not again until July 5th. Then things progressed quickly and he signed later on the 6th."
Can clearly be applied to your first response to me for Cousins, DeAndre, Gasol. Just like George resigning with DEN is a given because of loyalty and teammates, considering Cousins already was on a team with Durant, DeAndre on a team with Blake, and Gasol on a team with Westbrook and Lillard. Why would those FA leave for other situations
Again nice spin with the "signings" I never had issue with which team they were gonna sign with they could sign with whomever, I don't even care about the teams involved in signing him. I said the TIME PERIOD in which George resigned with your team VS when Cousins and Mozgov got released to their teams.
How you would have profited, if George left DEN you would have gotten screwed in resigning one of your top priorities and FA, as a PA at another position it could definitely effect the PA thinking "I got screwed" What's to say Cousins would still be in OKC and Mozgov would go to BRK instead. Especially in the case of OKC where he was a key division with a dangerous team.
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Post by Alex English on Jul 11, 2015 21:18:07 GMT
1. for point 1 nice try to being a spin doctor with the conspiracy comment and saying I thought it was juicy, and actually your PM validates my point that you did benefit from the rule modification. A team possesses the bird rights to a player if that player has 3 years left on their contract when they join the team.A team is given the 'Bird Rights' to one of their players if that player has not changed teams for three seasons or more. Bird Rights allow teams to exceed the salary cap when re-signing players.
the first quote gave you the advantage with Harden not like now where teams are following quote two of it and trying to get 3 full complete seasons instead of just "contracts" being 3 years long. I think you are mistaken about how the rule currently is. It's the same from when I made that trade. If you trade for a player with 3 years still on the books then you will get their bird rights. 2. The "insane" comment was a little harsh from me so I apologize for that, and I never said you didn't welcome it, I disputed that you guys didn't like the "amount" that Ian and the others originally proposed. Depending on what happens to the luxury tax and apron when the cap jumps, this seems like a really low number. There are currently 7 teams with a salary above 80,000,000. Then looking at my salary, after re-signing Paul George and Kyrie Irving, my payroll will probably be higher than $140,000,000 in the 2016-17 season. What after Ian's original 230 percent it was revised to In that case, the next four years would look like: 2014/15 - $113,517,000 (180% of salary cap) 2015/16 - $107,210,500 (170% of salary cap) 2016/17 - $100,904,000 (160% of salary cap) 2017/18 - $94,597,500 (150% of salary cap) After the Heat explanation that you gave on page 2 of that thread, your suggestion was For implementing it slow enough I think we could go: 2015-16: 225% 2016-17: 200% 2017-18: 175% The 225% level for this offseason is high enough that it won't penalize GMs for breaking rules that didn't previously exist, and 3 seasons should be long enough for GMs to react. Ian posted his big response while I was writing mine and I agree with a lot of what he said. I never would have traded for Josh Smith if we had a hard cap. Then having to re-sign Paul George, plus my MLE, I figure I need at most 25 million. With the 114 million I have committed to next year already I need at least 140 million to not be penalized. As I talked about in the other post Miami needs even more than that. We can't go lower than 175%, and I think that number only works with the fact that we're getting a huge bump in the cap for the 2016-17 season. Page 3 of the hardcap thread while responding to Brian when he disagreed with amnesty at the time and also the percentage, he agreed with you that 150 was low but 175 was high so he had a middle ground of 160. "I don't think it's unfair. All the teams under the cap will be able to use the amnesty as well. The NBA has had the amnesty clause as part of both of the last CBA negotiations. It would make sense for us to have it if we're going to implement such a big rule into our own salary cap." "We don't know exactly what the cap will be. We don't know how the new TV contract is structured. The NBA also wants to limit the cap in some way when the new deal comes into effect so there won't be such a big jump. Also your look at my team in 2 years ignores Paul George. He'll have an enormous contract starting next season. I guarantee just keeping the two of them will cost more than 30 million which takes me over 135 million right there. Then I still have role players to sign on top of that. My salary will definitely exceed 135 million in two years." Then after that walt and you had a disagreement about size of the contracts (page 3 literally all of it too much to post here). Eventually everyone's comments from pages 1 to 6 (including yours) culminated to Fast Forward to 2016 now DEN 136 million, hard cap 147, then of course hard cap will increase probably in the 170's, next season when the billionaire deal kicks in, again advantage DEN over other teams.How do I have an advantage over other teams? All of us have the same set of rules. Even if you wanted to say I benefited the most, that's not true because Miami has a higher salary than me. But then I also have to ask, how would I even have an advantage from this at all? Before the hard cap rule there were no limits, my salary could be $4 or $4 billion. Now there are limits. How did I get one up on everybody else? |
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Jul 11, 2015 21:20:43 GMT
1. for the Vucevic Gasol thing, like I said it doesn't bother me that I didn't get Gasol, Cousins or DeAndre, I have been in Ian's league long enough where I didn't get star FA outside of that one time with Lebron. 2. "Paul George was the fourth player to sign this offseason. Why do you say Cousins and DeAndre should have already signed given that George went so early in the process? The only guys that went before him were Alexis Ajinca, Rodney Stuckey and LaMarcus Aldridge. Also it was said when free agency opened that signings wouldn't happen until around July 7th. The 4 guys above went on July 6th and everyone else came on July 7th or later. Given that offers had been discussed for almost a week is it really surprising that a lot of signings came out in a short amount of time?" I still have no idea what you're issue is about the signings? What about the signings is too coincidental? Cousins came down to OKC and Charlotte. Mozgov came down to Brooklyn and New Orleans. How is it odd that those two could come out so close to each other when all the team involved are different? In what way am I supposedly profiting off of this situation? Please explain, as if you were me, how I've set things up to improve my own position. Because I sure as hell don't understand. "Besides Paul George was a lock to re-sign with me from the moment free agency opened. I was hardly stressing over it. In fact I was so preoccupied with the draft and my own PA duties that I realized like 4 or 5 days had passed since I messaged Walt about Paul George. I sent my first offer as soon as FA opened, then not again until July 5th. Then things progressed quickly and he signed later on the 6th." Can clearly be applied to your first response to me for Cousins, DeAndre, Gasol. Just like George resigning with DEN is a given because of loyalty and teammates, considering Cousins already was on a team with Durant, DeAndre on a team with Blake, and Gasol on a team with Westbrook and Lillard. Why would those FA leave for other situationsAgain nice spin with the "signings" I never had issue with which team they were gonna sign with they could sign with whomever, I don't even care about the teams involved in signing him. I said the TIME PERIOD in which George resigned with your team VS when Cousins and Mozgov got released to their teams.How you would have profited, if George left DEN you would have gotten screwed in resigning one of your top priorities and FA, as a PA at another position it could definitely effect the PA thinking "I got screwed" What's to say Cousins would still be in OKC and Mozgov would go to BRK instead. Especially in the case of OKC where he was a key division with a dangerous team.
I'm loving this. With all these player options teams like mine, Magic, and Lakers are gonna have a field day in Free Agency next season. |
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Post by Alex English on Jul 11, 2015 21:31:13 GMT
Can clearly be applied to your first response to me for Cousins, DeAndre, Gasol. Just like George resigning with DEN is a given because of loyalty and teammates, considering Cousins already was on a team with Durant, DeAndre on a team with Blake, and Gasol on a team with Westbrook and Lillard. Why would those FA leave for other situationsAgain nice spin with the "signings" I never had issue with which team they were gonna sign with they could sign with whomever, I don't even care about the teams involved in signing him. I said the TIME PERIOD in which George resigned with your team VS when Cousins and Mozgov got released to their teams.How you would have profited, if George left DEN you would have gotten screwed in resigning one of your top priorities and FA, as a PA at another position it could definitely effect the PA thinking "I got screwed" What's to say Cousins would still be in OKC and Mozgov would go to BRK instead. Especially in the case of OKC where he was a key division with a dangerous team.
Ok, I think I might understand. But correct me if I'm wrong. I waited to make sure Paul George re-signed, because if he didn't then I would have been angry and signed Cousins, etc. to different teams to limit the loss my team took by comparison and therefore remain an elite team. Fair summary? |
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Jul 11, 2015 22:01:01 GMT
Pretty sure that is what he is accusing you of. Pretty hypothetical.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Jul 12, 2015 0:02:32 GMT
Can clearly be applied to your first response to me for Cousins, DeAndre, Gasol. Just like George resigning with DEN is a given because of loyalty and teammates, considering Cousins already was on a team with Durant, DeAndre on a team with Blake, and Gasol on a team with Westbrook and Lillard. Why would those FA leave for other situationsAgain nice spin with the "signings" I never had issue with which team they were gonna sign with they could sign with whomever, I don't even care about the teams involved in signing him. I said the TIME PERIOD in which George resigned with your team VS when Cousins and Mozgov got released to their teams.How you would have profited, if George left DEN you would have gotten screwed in resigning one of your top priorities and FA, as a PA at another position it could definitely effect the PA thinking "I got screwed" What's to say Cousins would still be in OKC and Mozgov would go to BRK instead. Especially in the case of OKC where he was a key division with a dangerous team.
Ok, I think I might understand. But correct me if I'm wrong. I waited to make sure Paul George re-signed, because if he didn't then I would have been angry and signed Cousins, etc. to different teams to limit the loss my team took by comparison and therefore remain an elite team. Fair summary? ------------------- Which is stupid because if Paul George leaves then Alex can't sign anyone else because he's over the cap. He'd be limited to the MLE. |
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Magic Johnson
Former Lakers GM
Sophomore
Posts: 458
Feb 27, 2024 20:39:01 GMT
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Post by Magic Johnson on Jul 12, 2015 0:07:32 GMT
Yes to both Alex and Hollis last part except the ELITE TEAM part.
Everyone here thinks I MIGHT BE GOING OVER THE EDGE/CROSSING LINE part, but it just felt too good to be true to be a coincidence type situation that right after Paul George resigned with the team the TOP LEVEL (not bums like Ajinca) but guys like Cousins, DeAndre, Gasol, Mozgov, Chandler, Varejao and others starting falling over in domino effect.
That's why I reacted as strongly as I did. Now Alex did explain himself in his initial rebuttal and I'll accept those responses, but I didn't feel I said or did anything wrong for in regards to point 3, it just felt after the top 2 points that I made, that again the same team and GM held a competitive advantage over others, he isn't cheating, using 2 teams, or rigging and throwing games which would be throwing people out of league type offenses, but at that time when I saw the signings for both on the 6th and 7th it just felt to good to be true, thus I reacted this way.
Well anyways this is my last post on my issue, I apologize to Ian for causing such a commotion but I just felt I had to react when I saw the timing of those signings.
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Jul 12, 2015 0:16:35 GMT
Yes to both Alex and Hollis last part except the ELITE TEAM part. Everyone here thinks I MIGHT BE GOING OVER THE EDGE/CROSSING LINE part, but it just felt too good to be true to be a coincidence type situation that right after Paul George resigned with the team the TOP LEVEL (not bums like Ajinca) but guys like Cousins, DeAndre, Gasol, Mozgov, Chandler, Varejao and others starting falling over in domino effect. That's why I reacted as strongly as I did. Now Alex did explain himself in his initial rebuttal and I'll accept those responses, but I didn't feel I said or did anything wrong for in regards to point 3, it just felt after the top 2 points that I made, that again the same team and GM held a competitive advantage over others, he isn't cheating, using 2 teams, or rigging and throwing games which would be throwing people out of league type offenses, but at that time when I saw the signings for both on the 6th and 7th it just felt to good to be true, thus I reacted this way. Well anyways this is my last post on my issue, I apologize to Ian for causing such a commotion but I just felt I had to react when I saw the timing of those signings. Sorry Magic but... your not over the edge or crossing line because your point is not hitting anything. peace. |
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Post by Alex English on Jul 12, 2015 0:17:20 GMT
Ok, I think I might understand. But correct me if I'm wrong. I waited to make sure Paul George re-signed, because if he didn't then I would have been angry and signed Cousins, etc. to different teams to limit the loss my team took by comparison and therefore remain an elite team. Fair summary? ------------------- Which is stupid because if Paul George leaves then Alex can't sign anyone else because he's over the cap. He'd be limited to the MLE. Pro tip: Switch from the Preview tab to the BBCode tab. Then you can easily start your comment from outside the quote. |
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Chris Mullin
 Golden State Warriors
Starter
Posts: 1,303
Feb 19, 2024 21:58:28 GMT
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Post by Chris Mullin on Jul 12, 2015 0:28:50 GMT
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JR Wiles
Rookie
Posts: 194
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Post by JR Wiles on Jul 12, 2015 0:56:18 GMT
Can we please get some feedback on what Magic is talking about... Ian? Alex? The truth is out...its time to hear from all sides... What truth? I'm pretty confused as to what his problem is. What about the timings is suspicions? What issues are you looking to get a response about? I was not sure what the situation was. It was brought to my attention, so I wanted to know what the situation was. Nothing more |
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Post by Charles Barkley on Jul 13, 2015 22:23:28 GMT
Mike Conley Zach Randolph and Marc Gasol have made significant playoff runs the past few years. Toney Allen is the grindfather. Memphis has a solid defensive identity. Gasol went to High School in Tennessee. Of course he re-signed. Totally unrelated to this decision. They are completely related situations. How many times have the Grizzles won a championship with that composition? None. How many times will they win with the same composition? None. The point was given that he left to play with better talent, but he does not do so irl. How is that unrelated? Tony Allen and Randolph are both 33 and their prime years are far behind them. Gasol knows this, but he is loyal to his team. You both share the same points really. I think the better point to make is that Gasol values loyalty and being comfortable. Not caring about being a superstar or having his own team, because I really wouldn't call the Grizzlies in real life, his team. I'd just call it a good team, not necessarily anyone's team. Marc didn't go to Milwaukee for it to be his own team, obviously. Nor would he have stayed in Sac-town for it to be his team. What is more important is that IRL, he shows loyalty and comfort. And nothing about this signing said loyalty or comfort. Without knowing what Vlade said and what Alex said, I think that, in the case of just looking at loyalty and how Marc Gasol is, Alex may have portrayed Marc incorrectly. Now, I understand how Vlade is. But I also know he had his heart set on signing him, bugged me for months for me to trade him Gasol when I had him. And was adamant about building a team around him and Russ and Dame. I just wonder what was said in that convo to make Vlade withdraw his offer. I don't think you withdraw an offer if the player is coming back to your team. And if Marc wasn't coming back, he was portrayed inaccurately. Loyalty was shown on Vlade's part, and IRL, loyalty is always shown on Marc's part. But in here, Alex didn't show it, which irks me. In this day and age, we have more access to how NBA player's think on a daily basis than ever imaginable. How can we not accurately portray these guys? I mean, if I can stalk some chick who flirted with me in a college business class on the internet, how can you not read a few articles about how Marc Gasol is as a person and understand he is a "family" man and wants to stay put and be loyal. I thought Gasol to Sacramento was an open and shut case. And I am saddened to see him go because of this. |
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jul 13, 2015 22:46:26 GMT
They are completely related situations. How many times have the Grizzles won a championship with that composition? None. How many times will they win with the same composition? None. The point was given that he left to play with better talent, but he does not do so irl. How is that unrelated? Tony Allen and Randolph are both 33 and their prime years are far behind them. Gasol knows this, but he is loyal to his team. You both share the same points really. I think the better point to make is that Gasol values loyalty and being comfortable. Not caring about being a superstar or having his own team, because I really wouldn't call the Grizzlies in real life, his team. I'd just call it a good team, not necessarily anyone's team. Marc didn't go to Milwaukee for it to be his own team, obviously. Nor would he have stayed in Sac-town for it to be his team. What is more important is that IRL, he shows loyalty and comfort. And nothing about this signing said loyalty or comfort. Without knowing what Vlade said and what Alex said, I think that, in the case of just looking at loyalty and how Marc Gasol is, Alex may have portrayed Marc incorrectly. Now, I understand how Vlade is. But I also know he had his heart set on signing him, bugged me for months for me to trade him Gasol when I had him. And was adamant about building a team around him and Russ and Dame. I just wonder what was said in that convo to make Vlade withdraw his offer. I don't think you withdraw an offer if the player is coming back to your team. And if Marc wasn't coming back, he was portrayed inaccurately. Loyalty was shown on Vlade's part, and IRL, loyalty is always shown on Marc's part. But in here, Alex didn't show it, which irks me. In this day and age, we have more access to how NBA player's think on a daily basis than ever imaginable. How can we not accurately portray these guys? I mean, if I can stalk some chick who flirted with me in a college business class on the internet, how can you not read a few articles about how Marc Gasol is as a person and understand he is a "family" man and wants to stay put and be loyal. I thought Gasol to Sacramento was an open and shut case. And I am saddened to see him go because of this. Alex was going to sign him to Sacramento. Then Vlade rescinded his offer. I don't blame Alex at all for the end result, Vlade was basically in "fuck it all, I'm leaving anyway and I don't care where Marc goes as much anymore, and I want to make a point about this whole Bird Rights process" etc etc etc. Now, maybe we should have paused the whole thing and said "whether it is Vlade or a new owner, it makes the most sense for Marc to go back to Sacramento, period.". But at that time it wasn't clear that Vlade was leaving. So, just a mess of a situation overall. |
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