Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838 
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Jul 9, 2015 21:51:57 GMT
He withdrew his offer because he was pissed that this would most likely happen even if he stayed. The whole thing seems suspicious. I would bet over half the league would vote against this signing if it came down to it. Just because the bucks have a good team doesn't mean MArc automatically signs there. Gasol stayed on a team that essentially has Conley and some other role players. Mike Conley Zach Randolph and Marc Gasol have made significant playoff runs the past few years. Toney Allen is the grindfather. Memphis has a solid defensive identity. Gasol went to High School in Tennessee. Of course he re-signed. Totally unrelated to this decision. They are completely related situations. How many times have the Grizzles won a championship with that composition? None. How many times will they win with the same composition? None. The point was given that he left to play with better talent, but he does not do so irl. How is that unrelated? Tony Allen and Randolph are both 33 and their prime years are far behind them. Gasol knows this, but he is loyal to his team. |
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Post by James Kay on Jul 9, 2015 21:57:17 GMT
Mike Conley Zach Randolph and Marc Gasol have made significant playoff runs the past few years. Toney Allen is the grindfather. Memphis has a solid defensive identity. Gasol went to High School in Tennessee. Of course he re-signed. Totally unrelated to this decision. They are completely related situations. How many times have the Grizzles won a championship with that composition? None. How many times will they win with the same composition? None. The point was given that he left to play with better talent, but he does not do so irl. How is that unrelated? Tony Allen and Randolph are both 33 and their prime years are far behind them. Gasol knows this, but he is loyal to his team. How long has gasol been with Sacramento ? Not long enough to get bird rights. Why should he exhibit loyalty? The Grizzlies have had gasol since he was an afterthought in a trade that sent away his brother. He is obviously going to be loyal to them. The Kings recently acquired him and traded away like the whole team to try and "tank" while still having Westbrook gasol and lillard Where was Gasol going to go this off season that had better talent anyway? |
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Jul 9, 2015 22:32:00 GMT
I didn't know having bird rights was a requirement for a guy to stay, I guess it is by your opinion. I just believe the condition should be consistent in terms of requesting his already center, Drummond, to be traded. Drummond will be an all-star this year and should not be a backup. Averaged a double-double with two blocks a game last season. Drummond is not a hyped up player, I didn't know being bad a the free throw line decided if you were good or not. Guess that means Timofey is a better bet than Drummond?
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Jul 9, 2015 22:32:28 GMT
Lol. How many people offered for Gasol?
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Jul 9, 2015 22:38:08 GMT
I'm going to back up Alex English on this signing. This was the most controversial signing this year, perhaps since we started the league. Alex wanted to play it right and he even came to the rest of us PAs and we talked it through in the staff section of the site. The rest of us PAs were also torn between Sacramento and Milwaukee, but to be honest we tended to sway towards Sacramento because of Josh's point 2. above (Andre Drummond). Certainly in the future I'm going to do what I can to stop "I'm going to trade <lesser player> just to sign <better player>" giving teams any kind of advantage in the FA process. Walt Frazier beat me in the race for Eric Bledsoe because he "promised" to trade Ricky Rubio before the start of next season, and that's not how Free Agency should operate. We all need to go easy on Alex, and we all need to go easy on Vlade too, the only reason he got so pissed off about the process is because he cares so much about the league and his team, and that's not a bad thing in itself. When I was the only team to drop out the Top 3 in the rookie draft I spent a week being miserable, it's good because it shows we care. However it seems to me Gasol would have signed with Sacramento if not for the last few hours, and certainly not for Vlade withdrawing his offer. I also feel like Vlade crossed the line, no matter how much he cares for his team and the years that go into this league, and that if Gasol had signed with Sacramento now it would be an ugly signing, and just like I want to stop the process of <lesser player leaving to sign better player> helping in Free Agency, I also do not want to reward extreme behaviour. Well done to Alex English and the rest of the Player Agents. They already give up their free time, to work for free, to ensure this league has a future, and this was the right signing. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Since when is trading someone away a requirement to ANYONE signing in real life? If anything Bledsoe should want Rubio coming off the bench. It makes for a better, deeper team. Same with Milwaukee with Gasol. Why would he NOT want an AMAZING three man big rotation in AD, Gasol and Drummond gone. Just don't start Drummond, if he wants to start at the end of his contract then he goes somewhere else or they trade Gasol before then. This being an advantage is freaking stupid. It's not like he has Dwight Howard and is trying to sign Marc Gasol (two guys where both would obviously start.) |
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Post by Alex English on Jul 9, 2015 22:42:09 GMT
Lol. How many people offered for Gasol? This is everyone if I remember right off the top of my head: Sacramento Kings Milwaukee Bucks Dallas Mavericks Los Angeles Lakers Washington Wizards Was narrowed down to Bucks vs Kings. Then things happened. |
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Jul 9, 2015 22:42:57 GMT
Why didn't Dallas get him? Seems like a contending team that is just short way from getting over the hump?
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JR Wiles
Rookie
Posts: 194
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Post by JR Wiles on Jul 9, 2015 22:47:15 GMT
Why didn't Dallas get him? Seems like a contending team that is just short way from getting over the hump? Glenn... You ever going to speak on this and speculations?? |
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Jul 9, 2015 22:48:31 GMT
Why didn't Dallas get him? Seems like a contending team that is just short way from getting over the hump? Just a real question, was it dollar amount, etc. Because it looks fishy until you realize only 5 teams offered for the best center in the league. If we take Washington out of the equation (sorry), we can see it was basically a 1/4 chance of getting him and it doesn't look fishy as much anymore. |
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Jul 9, 2015 22:49:22 GMT
If I realized that so few people were offering for the top players I would have threw my hat in on a few more.
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Post by Alex English on Jul 9, 2015 22:53:42 GMT
Why didn't Dallas get him? Seems like a contending team that is just short way from getting over the hump? The only 80+ guys under contract there are Dirk and Pierce who are both very old and won't be playing at a high level, or at all, for much longer. There is also Rondo, but he's expiring and seems like a guy who could walk, but I don't know, not part of those negotiations. But not only that, Gasol signing there could take too much money and make it impossible for Rondo to re-sign. But again, I don't know what Rondo's value is like, I'd imagine 15+ million given everything we've seen though. They would be a good option for next year only (though worse than both the Kings and Bucks imo), but also a risky option long term. Those were my thoughts anyway. |
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Post by Alex English on Jul 9, 2015 22:56:23 GMT
Why didn't Dallas get him? Seems like a contending team that is just short way from getting over the hump? Glenn... You ever going to speak on this and speculations?? Glenn had no decision making power in this. It was me, and then other staff members once I asked for their feedback. Though I doubt that helps, I'm probably on your hit list too. |
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Jul 9, 2015 22:58:07 GMT
Why didn't Dallas get him? Seems like a contending team that is just short way from getting over the hump? The only 80+ guys under contract there are Dirk and Pierce who are both very old and won't be playing at a high level, or at all, for much longer. There is also Rondo, but he's expiring and seems like a guy who could walk, but I don't know, not part of those negotiations. But not only that, Gasol signing there could take too much money and make it impossible for Rondo to re-sign. But again, I don't know what Rondo's value is like, I'd imagine 15+ million given everything we've seen though. They would be a good option for next year only (though worse than both the Kings and Bucks imo), but also a risky option long term. Those were my thoughts anyway. That's a decent explanation. And thinking about it, Kobe and future rebuild is an easy reason why LA is out. TBH I think Glenn should have gotten whatever Free Agents he wants. His team is set up to be really good the next like 3 years. I'd sign with them if I was a player. This is Vlade getting mad because he lost a guy (because he pulled the contract overreacting before anything is announced). And Glenn being a young man cheated in the past. This combined with IRL Sacramento getting screwed vs the Lakers in the west finals years ago is what's causing this. |
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Post by Kareem Abdul-Jabbar on Jul 9, 2015 23:00:12 GMT
Why didn't Dallas get him? Seems like a contending team that is just short way from getting over the hump? Just a real question, was it dollar amount, etc. Because it looks fishy until you realize only 5 teams offered for the best center in the league. If we take Washington out of the equation (sorry), we can see it was basically a 1/4 chance of getting him and it doesn't look fishy as much anymore. That's harsh, but of course I can't get him. I just offered, maybe there's a small chance he'll be with us. But unfortunately. Hahahaha ^^ |
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Jul 9, 2015 23:01:15 GMT
Also, this only makes my offseason rule proposal about top free agent signing quickly all the more important. ESPECIALLY the bird rights people. Because now he's missed out on several players having to wait this long.
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Post by Alex English on Jul 9, 2015 23:07:46 GMT
TBH I think Glenn should have gotten whatever Free Agents he wants. His team is set up to be really good the next like 3 years. I'd sign with them if I was a player. I agree with this for the most part, but I actually think this is a bad thing for the league. I made a super long post in the staff section where we talked about this where I said how I don't like how we've set up free agency. Basically, I think we are too objective (but because we kind of have to be since we aren't actually these players). With the criteria we have so long as teams can offer equal money, then the good teams essentially have their pick of the litter. How could someone choose the Wizards over the Bucks? That means the good teams stay good and the mediocre and bad teams are kind of shit out of luck. We need more randomness in how we choose free agency offers. Something like Al Jefferson signing with Charlotte would never happen here because that team would have been rejected immediately for having a shitty team. The problem is that any sort of implementation of randomness into our system would likely just cause enormous arguments. |
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Post by Blake Bowman on Jul 9, 2015 23:08:03 GMT
Also, this only makes my offseason rule proposal about top free agent signing quickly all the more important. ESPECIALLY the bird rights people. Because now he's missed out on several players having to wait this long. He didn't have BRs, but I agree. |
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 27, 2024 0:23:20 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2015 23:12:51 GMT
TBH I think Glenn should have gotten whatever Free Agents he wants. His team is set up to be really good the next like 3 years. I'd sign with them if I was a player. I agree with this for the most part, but I actually think this is a bad thing for the league. I made a super long post in the staff section where we talked about this where I said how I don't like how we've set up free agency. Basically, I think we are too objective (but because we kind of have to be since we aren't actually these players). With the criteria we have so long as teams can offer equal money, then the good teams essentially have their pick of the litter. How could someone choose the Wizards over the Bucks? That means the good teams stay good and the mediocre and bad teams are kind of shit out of luck. We need more randomness in how we choose free agency offers. Something like Al Jefferson signing with Charlotte would never happen here because that team would have been rejected immediately for having a shitty team. The problem is that any sort of implementation of randomness into our system would likely just cause enormous arguments. Shit teams have to pay people like mirotic 84M. Because who the fuck likes Mormons |
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Jul 9, 2015 23:18:59 GMT
Also, this only makes my offseason rule proposal about top free agent signing quickly all the more important. ESPECIALLY the bird rights people. Because now he's missed out on several players having to wait this long. He didn't have BRs, but I agree. Don't worry, Parsons hasn't resigned yet. Everyone else's big free agents sign except for the team that looks suspicious right now. |
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Jul 9, 2015 23:21:30 GMT
TBH I think Glenn should have gotten whatever Free Agents he wants. His team is set up to be really good the next like 3 years. I'd sign with them if I was a player. I agree with this for the most part, but I actually think this is a bad thing for the league. I made a super long post in the staff section where we talked about this where I said how I don't like how we've set up free agency. Basically, I think we are too objective (but because we kind of have to be since we aren't actually these players). With the criteria we have so long as teams can offer equal money, then the good teams essentially have their pick of the litter. How could someone choose the Wizards over the Bucks? That means the good teams stay good and the mediocre and bad teams are kind of shit out of luck. We need more randomness in how we choose free agency offers. Something like Al Jefferson signing with Charlotte would never happen here because that team would have been rejected immediately for having a shitty team. The problem is that any sort of implementation of randomness into our system would likely just cause enormous arguments. ------------------------------ Simple Answer, put more weight on the pitch and less on money and team record. There are ring chasers who will sign for a discounted rate on a title contender. But some people want a bigger role. The real life Mavs almost got DeAndre till he got bullied/kidnapped into resigning with the Clips. Purely based on their pitch. Also when you think about the Charlotte situation they got to sign Al Jefferson because they said hey, you can come into the east and be the best center here and destroy. And it worked till he got hurt. |
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Post by Alex English on Jul 9, 2015 23:22:21 GMT
Shit teams have to pay people like mirotic 84M. Because who the fuck likes Mormons Jabari Parker. But you traded him away so... |
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Glenn Robinson
 Milwaukee Bucks
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Posts: 1,226
Nov 22, 2024 4:29:32 GMT
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Post by Glenn Robinson on Jul 9, 2015 23:22:40 GMT
He didn't have BRs, but I agree. Don't worry, Parsons hasn't resigned yet. Everyone else's big free agents sign except for the team that looks suspicious right now. Talked to Parson's player agent the first day of free agency. Been waiting to hear back on his offers. Why does that make me look suspicious? I have no control over free agents and where they go. |
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Jul 9, 2015 23:22:47 GMT
He didn't have BRs, but I agree. Don't worry, Parsons hasn't resigned yet. Everyone else's big free agents sign except for the team that looks suspicious right now. I think he loses Parsons tbh. |
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Jul 9, 2015 23:24:26 GMT
Don't worry, Parsons hasn't resigned yet. Everyone else's big free agents sign except for the team that looks suspicious right now. Talked to Parson's player agent the first day of free agency. Been waiting to hear back on his offers. Why does that make me look suspicious? I have no control over free agents and where they go. After listening to your shady side deals as a PA, I don't trust a word of what you say. Once a cheat, always a cheat. |
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Glenn Robinson
Milwaukee Bucks
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Posts: 1,226
Nov 22, 2024 4:29:32 GMT
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Post by Glenn Robinson on Jul 9, 2015 23:25:55 GMT
Talked to Parson's player agent the first day of free agency. Been waiting to hear back on his offers. Why does that make me look suspicious? I have no control over free agents and where they go. After listening to your shady side deals as a PA, I don't trust a word of what you say. Once a cheat, always a cheat. I have no power in this league. So I have nothing to hide or lie about. You want to bring up something that happened years ago before you were even in this league. People make mistakes and I've learned from them and moved on. You never made a mistake? How do you ever learn anything then? |
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Jul 9, 2015 23:26:56 GMT
Also another thing players care about, why the heck would all these star players want to team up on a team with 4 other superstars? I mean part of the benefit of being a star player is that your shot count goes through the roof. You get to add to career stats and have a legacy and things like that. Right now everyone on Alex's team would average 15 points a game, OR you'd have 30, 22 and 17 and like 2 REALLY pissed off dudes. Especially young guys.
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Jul 9, 2015 23:29:18 GMT
After listening to your shady side deals as a PA, I don't trust a word of what you say. Once a cheat, always a cheat. I have no power in this league. So I have nothing to hide or lie about. You want to bring up something that happened years ago before you were even in this league. People make mistakes and I've learned from them and moved on. You never made a mistake? How do you ever learn anything then? There is a difference between making a mistake and blatantly cheating. Are you saying you didn't realize you were cheating at the time you were doing this? That's not a mistake my friend, that's called being shady. A mistake is when you unknowingly mess up. |
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Glenn Robinson
Milwaukee Bucks
Starter
Posts: 1,226
Nov 22, 2024 4:29:32 GMT
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Post by Glenn Robinson on Jul 9, 2015 23:31:31 GMT
I have no power in this league. So I have nothing to hide or lie about. You want to bring up something that happened years ago before you were even in this league. People make mistakes and I've learned from them and moved on. You never made a mistake? How do you ever learn anything then? There is a difference between making a mistake and blatantly cheating. Are you saying you didn't realize you were cheating at the time you were doing this? That's not a mistake my friend, that's called being shady. A mistake is when you unknowingly mess up. You can knowingly be in the wrong. People do stupid shit all the time. I'm definitely not the same person I was 3 years ago. I'd assume you aren't either. Learn and move on. Nothing has impacted you and yet you feel the need to make this about you and attack me about this? |
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 27, 2024 0:23:20 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2015 23:33:40 GMT
Shit teams have to pay people like mirotic 84M. Because who the fuck likes Mormons Jabari Parker. But you traded him away so... That fat kid? Glad he's gone |
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Jul 9, 2015 23:37:48 GMT
God I love the offseason hahaha.
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Charlotte Hornets
Denver Nuggets
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