|
|
Post by James Kay on Apr 3, 2014 18:28:36 GMT
Haha is this really for real? Okay, I'll go with 88. Maybe if Blake Griffin is an 87, I'll go wih 87, but no, so it's 88. Is Josh Smith really the better player than Bosh? lol To answer your questions, Blake should not even be in the same conversation as Smith or Bosh. Of the latter two, I think Smith is A LOT better of a player than Bosh. My honest unbiased ratings: Blake - 92 Dwight - 88 Smith - 87 Bosh - 82 INSANE. Just completely in another reality apparently. |
|
|
|
Post by James Kay on Apr 3, 2014 18:28:58 GMT
First of all, who the fuck is this non-GM that's Facebook friends with Vlade and thinks Bosh is below an 80? His opinion is not needed.
Secondly, Vlade - if we're gonna go off of more than your unfounded opinion - we need to look at stats. They're the only way to truly value a player.
1. Bosh is #10 in True Shooting percentage this year. With .601
2. Bosh is #16 in Effective Field Goal Percentage this year. With .558
3. Bosh is #20 in Field Goal Percentage this year. With .520
4. Bosh shoots 35% from the three and 82% from the line. VERY impressive for a big-man.
5. Bosh has a PER of 19.75, good for 33rd in the league.
Yes, his percentages benefit from being on the same team as Lebron and Wade, but his overall volume numbers take a hit as well.
If we use the eye-test it's obvious that Bosh is elite at the mid-range jumper, and a real threat from three. He plays an undersized Center, but is still very good defensively. That's the Heat system - it's not his fault he's pitted against huge centers like Hibbert. He is an All-Star and is INTEGRAL to the Heat's success - giving them the spacing they need to let Lebron and Wade barrage the hoop with drives. He draws out the opposing team's centers - it's why Lebron has such an INSANE rating at the rim, I mean, besides the fact that he's Lebron fucking James.
Bosh has won a player of the week this year. Obviously people who know about basketball value him. Bosh is a valuable contributor to a 2-time championship team. He has won the Championship two times in a row as the third option. Bosh is clutch as FUCK. Game winning rebounds, blocks, threes, etc.
Just this year, Lebron sat out a game on 12/28. Bosh carried the tam with 37 points. Shooting 57% and perfect from three - topping it off with a game winner:
Lebron also sat out a game on 2/23. Bosh again carried the team, knocking down 4 three pointers. He didn't shoot as well- 43.5% - but who does against Chicago? The Heat got the win.
Here he is again, being clutch as fuck - three after three AFTER THREE in the 4th quarter:
Here is is AGAIN, clutch game winning block:
Putting Josh Smith in the same conversation as Bosh is stupid. I'm not gonna comment on Smith because its so annoying that you made this thread just in retaliation for the Josh Smith thread.
I vote no change for Bosh. Most criminally underrated player in the league.
|
|
|
|
Post by James Kay on Apr 3, 2014 18:29:15 GMT
He's doing it to make a point, and I get it. But there really isn't a point to be made, as it stands right now Josh Smith is a very athletic "meh" player. What does that make Bosh considering he is NOT that athletic and possesses the same stats are Smith? If anything that suggests that Bosh is better since he is able to do more with less? |
|
|
|
Post by James Kay on Apr 3, 2014 18:29:33 GMT
Advanced StatsBy every single advanced stat other than steals and blocks Chris Bosh is significantly better than Josh Smith. This means jack shit to me. That's fucking retarded. You put forward stats that say Josh Smith is better than Bosh then reject considering other stats? |
|
tbftw71
Rookie
Posts: 8 
|
Post by tbftw71 on Apr 3, 2014 18:43:37 GMT
You can insult me Jeremiah but it doesn't make your point any more valid. Bosh is overrated. Simple as that. He's a talented player but you tell me how he's better than Blake Griffin or Dirk? I feel like Bosh being a 78-79 is GENEROUS. His role on the team alone is to score. That's it. That's all the goofy looking dude can do. Basketball isn't all scoring just like football isn't all about throwing the ball. You need different aspects of the game. Don't listen to my argument, I don't even care. I'm not even a part of the league minus being Bowen's assistant. And how DARE you insult Shane Battier. Dude's one of the best 3pt defenders in the league and is untimely. Bosh leaves Miami after this year and I bet he struggles heavily to ever see the playoffs again ala Josh Smith. You're arguing over two overrated player.
|
|
tbftw71
Rookie
Posts: 8
|
Post by tbftw71 on Apr 3, 2014 18:46:26 GMT
And Kay. I'm a previous owner who didn't have the time to do the league. I've been here before. I know how to run a basketball team. I know about basketball. Bosh is overrated. The whole fact you guys are still using Live is the reason I'm not a GM. That game fucking blows. Use 2k. They have parts of the game that you can't account for in live like chemistry. That's necessary.
And AGAIN AS ALWAYS GUYS.. STATS ARE FOR LOSERS. WATCH THE GAME. NOT STATS. STATS LIE.
|
|
|
|
Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Apr 3, 2014 19:58:31 GMT
90
|
|
|
|
Post by Alex English on Apr 3, 2014 20:10:52 GMT
And AGAIN AS ALWAYS GUYS.. STATS ARE FOR LOSERS. WATCH THE GAME. NOT STATS. STATS LIE. Stats and analytics are taking over the game, and it's because they work really well. It's all sports too, not just basketball. Go read the book Moneyball and look into the MIT Sports Analytics Conference. Not that you'll give this a second thought, but this is one of the dumbest things ever said in a stockwatch thread. This whole thread should be trashed actually. |
|
|
|
Post by Jeremiah Hill on Apr 3, 2014 22:44:12 GMT
And Kay. I'm a previous owner who didn't have the time to do the league. I've been here before. I know how to run a basketball team. I know about basketball. Bosh is overrated. The whole fact you guys are still using Live is the reason I'm not a GM. That game fucking blows. Use 2k. They have parts of the game that you can't account for in live like chemistry. That's necessary. And AGAIN AS ALWAYS GUYS.. STATS ARE FOR LOSERS. WATCH THE GAME. NOT STATS. STATS LIE. Someone said that you are the guy that ran this team before. The only way you know how to run a team is right into the ground. You're analysis is not backed up by proof, via stats nor the eye test. You're just acting like a troll. |
|
|
|
Post by Blake Bowman on Apr 4, 2014 2:24:55 GMT
Bosh is over-under-overrated. I'd say an 83, but I'm not a fan of comparing Hawks Smith with Raptors Bosh. I read everything said thus far and I've learned a lot more about the GMs of this league and their respective gangs of hoodlums. Being glue isn't deserving of an 89 or an All-Star consideration or whatever the fuck Billy was saying, it just means he's a slightly more important role player for a Heat team that honestly doesn't need him as much as they need Wade or Chris Andersen come playoffs IMO. (If you want to rate Birdman at 89 then you'd have my second.  lol) I don't agree with the glue comment, I think he's a pretty solid offensive third/fourth option on THIS team, he could get it done with a star role like he once had, but his rebounding and defensive numbers are disappointing. Still he's more than a sticky substance, he's got a lot of heart. I actually like Bosh; he's a cool player and he's very well spoken. (Oprah interview is solid.) Everything being said, I like a rating of 83 for him, but anywhere from 83-86 is definitely an argument that could be made by the right person/people, which it clearly hasn't been thus far in WWIII between the United Powers and Vlade's Angels. No offense to anyone else's opinion honestly, but there's SOOO much tension here that it has played a major role in this thread... Bosh is the kind of guy that you either like or hate. He's a role player, and a very solid starter, which some people tend to overlook in my opinion. Stats are important, but they aren't everything. |
|
|
|
Post by Alex English on Apr 4, 2014 2:57:07 GMT
it just means he's a slightly more important role player for a Heat team that honestly doesn't need him as much as they need Wade or Chris Andersen come playoffs IMO.  |
|
|
|
Post by Blake Bowman on Apr 4, 2014 3:07:56 GMT
it just means he's a slightly more important role player for a Heat team that honestly doesn't need him as much as they need Wade or Chris Andersen come playoffs IMO.  |
|
|
|
Post by Jeremiah Hill on Apr 4, 2014 3:22:23 GMT
Bosh is over-under-overrated. I'd say an 83, but I'm not a fan of comparing Hawks Smith with Raptors Bosh. I read everything said thus far and I've learned a lot more about the GMs of this league and their respective gangs of hoodlums. Being glue isn't deserving of an 89 or an All-Star consideration or whatever the fuck Billy was saying, it just means he's a slightly more important role player for a Heat team that honestly doesn't need him as much as they need Wade or Chris Andersen come playoffs IMO. (If you want to rate Birdman at 89 then you'd have my second. lol) I don't agree with the glue comment, I think he's a pretty solid offensive third/fourth option on THIS team, he could get it done with a star role like he once had, but his rebounding and defensive numbers are disappointing. Still he's more than a sticky substance, he's got a lot of heart. I actually like Bosh; he's a cool player and he's very well spoken. (Oprah interview is solid.) Everything being said, I like a rating of 83 for him, but anywhere from 83-86 is definitely an argument that could be made by the right person/people, which it clearly hasn't been thus far in WWIII between the United Powers and Vlade's Angels. No offense to anyone else's opinion honestly, but there's SOOO much tension here that it has played a major role in this thread... Bosh is the kind of guy that you either like or hate. He's a role player, and a very solid starter, which some people tend to overlook in my opinion. Stats are important, but they aren't everything. The Heat do not suffer missing Dwayne Wade nearly as much as they do when they don't have Chris Bosh, that is a fact. Last season without Wade in the regular season, Miami is 7-1 but without Bosh they were 4-5. Chris Andersen can't play more than 20 minutes without fouling out. |
|
|
|
Post by James Kay on Apr 4, 2014 3:24:25 GMT
Bosh is over-under-overrated. I'd say an 83, but I'm not a fan of comparing Hawks Smith with Raptors Bosh. I read everything said thus far and I've learned a lot more about the GMs of this league and their respective gangs of hoodlums. Being glue isn't deserving of an 89 or an All-Star consideration or whatever the fuck Billy was saying, it just means he's a slightly more important role player for a Heat team that honestly doesn't need him as much as they need Wade or Chris Andersen come playoffs IMO. (If you want to rate Birdman at 89 then you'd have my second. lol) I don't agree with the glue comment, I think he's a pretty solid offensive third/fourth option on THIS team, he could get it done with a star role like he once had, but his rebounding and defensive numbers are disappointing. Still he's more than a sticky substance, he's got a lot of heart. I actually like Bosh; he's a cool player and he's very well spoken. (Oprah interview is solid.) Everything being said, I like a rating of 83 for him, but anywhere from 83-86 is definitely an argument that could be made by the right person/people, which it clearly hasn't been thus far in WWIII between the United Powers and Vlade's Angels. No offense to anyone else's opinion honestly, but there's SOOO much tension here that it has played a major role in this thread... Bosh is the kind of guy that you either like or hate. He's a role player, and a very solid starter, which some people tend to overlook in my opinion. Stats are important, but they aren't everything. The Heat do not suffer missing Dwayne Wade nearly as much as they do when they don't have Chris Bosh, that is a fact. Last season without Wade in the regular season, Miami is 7-1 but without Bosh they were 4-5. Chris Andersen can't play more than 20 minutes without fouling out. Holy shit - thank you. It's just outrageous that people are underrating him so badly. Seriously - put some stats up to back your opinions. No one here has the credibility to 'judge' a players' worth. The only thing we can do is look at real life stats and results. |
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 30, 2024 8:54:01 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2014 4:16:09 GMT
The Heat do not suffer missing Dwayne Wade nearly as much as they do when they don't have Chris Bosh, that is a fact. Last season without Wade in the regular season, Miami is 7-1 but without Bosh they were 4-5. Chris Andersen can't play more than 20 minutes without fouling out. Holy shit - thank you. It's just outrageous that people are underrating him so badly. Seriously - put some stats up to back your opinions. No one here has the credibility to 'judge' a players' worth. The only thing we can do is look at real life stats and results. I am going to get to the rest of fucking shit you said about me, you dirty son of a bitch!  , but let just throw some stats at you. Comparison: PPG: Bosh 16.4, Smith 16.4 RPG: Bosh 6.7, Smith 6.9 APG: Bosh 1.1, Smith 3.3 BPG: Bosh 1.0, Smith 1.5 SPG: Bosh 1.0, Smith 1.4 THOSE ARE NUMBERS YOU CAN'T DEBATE! |
|
|
|
Post by Blake Bowman on Apr 4, 2014 4:31:53 GMT
Holy shit - thank you. It's just outrageous that people are underrating him so badly. Seriously - put some stats up to back your opinions. No one here has the credibility to 'judge' a players' worth. The only thing we can do is look at real life stats and results. I am going to get to the rest of fucking shit you said about me, you dirty son of a bitch! , but let just throw some stats at you. Comparison: PPG: Bosh 16.4, Smith 16.4 RPG: Bosh 6.7, Smith 6.9 APG: Bosh 1.1, Smith 3.3 BPG: Bosh 1.0, Smith 1.5 SPG: Bosh 1.0, Smith 1.4 THOSE ARE NUMBERS YOU CAN'T DEBATE! SOLID! I'd still take Smith over Bosh. And I said in the playoffs, not the season. Even though I agree that Bosh CAN still produce, there's no real evidence to say that he could be a star on a competitive team without Lebron and DWade, don't you bring up this season... Your 8 games mean noithng to me. He's playing average basketball, with average numbers, his high potential energy is being compromised by his current kinetic energy. |
|
|
|
Post by Jeremiah Hill on Apr 4, 2014 4:37:26 GMT
I am going to get to the rest of fucking shit you said about me, you dirty son of a bitch! , but let just throw some stats at you. Comparison: PPG: Bosh 16.4, Smith 16.4 RPG: Bosh 6.7, Smith 6.9 APG: Bosh 1.1, Smith 3.3 BPG: Bosh 1.0, Smith 1.5 SPG: Bosh 1.0, Smith 1.4 THOSE ARE NUMBERS YOU CAN'T DEBATE! SOLID! I'd still take Smith over Bosh. And I said in the playoffs, not the season. Even though I agree that Bosh CAN still produce, there's no real evidence to say that he could be a star on a competitive team without Lebron and DWade, don't you bring up this season... Your 8 games mean noithng to me. He's playing average basketball, with average numbers, his high potential energy is being compromised by his current kinetic energy. Did you even read anything that I wrote? Josh Smith shoots 40% Bosh shoots 52%. That MORE than makes up for anything. Bosh helps his team, Josh Smith hurts it while he shoots pull up jumpers with a 18 seconds left on the shot clock. By all advanced statistics Bosh is not only a great defender, but way better than Josh Smith. Steals and Blocks are nice, but in all honestly it hasn't really mattered much to his team because of reasons I've already explained. |
|
|
|
Post by Jeremiah Hill on Apr 4, 2014 4:39:21 GMT
Not to mention that Bosh was an all-star this season, NOT a starter which means the coaches had to vote him in. If Josh Smith was just as good or better than Bosh then why wasn't he chosen by the people who's only job in the league is to evaluate players.
|
|
|
|
Post by James Kay on Apr 4, 2014 4:40:10 GMT
I am going to get to the rest of fucking shit you said about me, you dirty son of a bitch! , but let just throw some stats at you. Comparison: PPG: Bosh 16.4, Smith 16.4 RPG: Bosh 6.7, Smith 6.9 APG: Bosh 1.1, Smith 3.3 BPG: Bosh 1.0, Smith 1.5 SPG: Bosh 1.0, Smith 1.4 THOSE ARE NUMBERS YOU CAN'T DEBATE! SOLID! I'd still take Smith over Bosh. And I said in the playoffs, not the season. Even though I agree that Bosh CAN still produce, there's no real evidence to say that he could be a star on a competitive team without Lebron and DWade, don't you bring up this season... Your 8 games mean noithng to me. He's playing average basketball, with average numbers, his high potential energy is being compromised by his current kinetic energy. OK looking at those numbers, they produce about the same raw stats - except Smith gets a little more assists and defensive stats. But Bosh is producing at an INCREDIBLY MORE EFFICIENT RATE ! Smith is shooting at FG: 42% and FT: 53%. That shit is laughable compared to Bosh's numbers. And how are you gonna say in the same sentence - "there's no real evidence to say that he could be a star on a competitive team without Lebron and DWade when Jeremiah and myself just showed you that evidence! Why would those 8 games mean nothing to you?! That's the only true evidence available and it points to Bosh's ability to be a first option. |
|
|
|
Post by James Kay on Apr 4, 2014 4:41:32 GMT
Did you even read anything that I wrote? Josh Smith shoots 40% Bosh shoots 52%. [/quote] I feel the same way... |
|
|
|
Post by Shaquille O'Neal on Apr 4, 2014 10:36:11 GMT
sigh. bosh should stay. he can bring a team to playoffs without any help.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 30, 2024 8:54:01 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2014 13:27:33 GMT
sigh. bosh should stay. he can bring a team to playoffs without any help. Name one time when he ever did that. I think some people forget about Mr. Halfman-Halfamazing! Then again, maybe most of you are too young to remember him. |
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 30, 2024 8:54:01 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2014 13:30:14 GMT
SOLID! I'd still take Smith over Bosh. And I said in the playoffs, not the season. Even though I agree that Bosh CAN still produce, there's no real evidence to say that he could be a star on a competitive team without Lebron and DWade, don't you bring up this season... Your 8 games mean noithng to me. He's playing average basketball, with average numbers, his high potential energy is being compromised by his current kinetic energy. OK looking at those numbers, they produce about the same raw stats - except Smith gets a little more assists and defensive stats. But Bosh is producing at an INCREDIBLY MORE EFFICIENT RATE ! Smith is shooting at FG: 42% and FT: 53%. That shit is laughable compared to Bosh's numbers. And how are you gonna say in the same sentence - "there's no real evidence to say that he could be a star on a competitive team without Lebron and DWade when Jeremiah and myself just showed you that evidence! Why would those 8 games mean nothing to you?! That's the only true evidence available and it points to Bosh's ability to be a first option. Percentage are so overrated. If you want to lower his FT% and FG%, however, then fine. Notice on my King's team we don't ask him to score, but I need him to be a defensive/athletic freak on my team which mirrors real life. While your objections about Smith are valid, at least he brings SOMETHING to the table. Players that strictly hit open jump shots, like Bosh, are role players. |
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 30, 2024 8:54:01 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2014 13:33:07 GMT
PS. I maybe rooting AGAINST Miami simply because of Kay, Iverson, Hill, and others in conjunction with the fact I want Lebron to leave Bosh Spice high and dry.
|
|
|
|
Post by Shaquille O'Neal on Apr 4, 2014 13:33:37 GMT
sigh. bosh should stay. he can bring a team to playoffs without any help. Name one time when he ever did that. I think some people forget about Mr. Halfman-Halfamazing! Then again, maybe most of you are too young to remember him. he carried the raptors in the playoffs on both 06-07 and 07-08 with anthony parker and t.j ford as his primary help. |
|
|
|
Post by Walt Frazier on Apr 4, 2014 13:58:47 GMT
Let's not forget how bad the East has been for a long time, especially in that era.
But, personally I do think Bosh has talent, Vlade is too far down on him. I see his argument, and I know he truly believes what he's saying, but when you are out on a limb by yourself it's sometimes best to realize it and just climb back to the tree and rest for awhile.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 30, 2024 8:54:01 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2014 14:47:06 GMT
Name one time when he ever did that. I think some people forget about Mr. Halfman-Halfamazing! Then again, maybe most of you are too young to remember him. he carried the raptors in the playoffs on both 06-07 and 07-08 with anthony parker and t.j ford as his primary help. Those years are the exceptions in the weakest conference in the history of the NBA. TJ Ford was pretty good at one point, Bargs showed promise, and it sure beat who Wade (Chalmers & Hasslem) and Lebron (Boobie?) played with. Did Miami or Cleveland miss the playoffs? Did they ever play with Vince Carter? I would bet you anything that Toronto makes a run if they draft Wade instead of Bosh and pair him up with Carter. |
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 30, 2024 8:54:01 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2014 14:48:31 GMT
Let's not forget how bad the East has been for a long time, especially in that era. But, personally I do think Bosh has talent, Vlade is too far down on him. I see his argument, and I know he truly believes what he's saying, but when you are out on a limb by yourself it's sometimes best to realize it and just climb back to the tree and rest for awhile. Hell yeah I believe what I am saying with all my heart and soul; it's basically my Tim Duncan argument but Timmy AT LEAST was good at one point. Remember, I think he should be a point lower than Josh Smith. |
|
|
|
Post by Walt Frazier on Apr 4, 2014 14:54:29 GMT
Yes I know Vlade. I think there are a couple people who think you are just doing this out of spite, which you maybe are a little bit, but they may not think you actually believe Bosh is this bad. I know you do though so just pointing that out. You guys can disagree but know that Vlade really does feel this way, he's just pretty much alone down at the 80 rating.
|
|
|
|
Post by James Kay on Apr 4, 2014 15:08:49 GMT
sigh. bosh should stay. he can bring a team to playoffs without any help. Name one time when he ever did that. I think some people forget about Mr. Halfman-Halfamazing! Then again, maybe most of you are too young to remember him. HONESTLY MAN YOU KNOW NOTHING! Bosh brought the Raptors to the playoffs in 06-07 "He was named Eastern Conference Player of the Week for the third time in his career shortly after, having led Toronto to clinch their first NBA Playoffs berth in five years. Toronto went on to win its first ever division title, and concluded the regular season with a 47–35 record, including a 30–11 home record, both franchise records. As third seed, the Raptors played sixth seed New Jersey Nets in the first round of the 2007 NBA Playoffs" and 07-08. You are literally spouting non-facts and its extremely irritating addressing each one. And yeah, you're right. Basketball is not about percentages. There's no way we should consider how often a player can make a shot. /s |
|
Charlotte Hornets
Brooklyn Nets
Denver Nuggets
lol) I don't agree with the glue comment, I think he's a pretty solid offensive third/fourth option on THIS team, he could get it done with a star role like he once had, but his rebounding and defensive numbers are disappointing. Still he's more than a sticky substance, he's got a lot of heart. I actually like Bosh; he's a cool player and he's very well spoken. (Oprah interview is solid.) Everything being said, I like a rating of 83 for him, but anywhere from 83-86 is definitely an argument that could be made by the right person/people, which it clearly hasn't been thus far in WWIII between the United Powers and Vlade's Angels. No offense to anyone else's opinion honestly, but there's SOOO much tension here that it has played a major role in this thread...
, but let just throw some stats at you. 
Miami Heat
Minnesota Timberwolves