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Post by Jeremiah Hill on May 23, 2014 13:13:13 GMT
Ian I don't think anyone really cares if Luol Deng leaves Cleveland, he doesn't solve the floor spacing problem they have and there are 3 and D guys available SFs this off-season. Although I really like Embiid and think he might be the pick I don't think Deng has anything to do with it.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on May 23, 2014 13:13:59 GMT
Ian I don't think anyone really cares if Luol Deng leaves Cleveland, he doesn't solve the floor spacing problem they have and there are 3 and D guys available SFs this off-season. Although I really like Embiid and think he might be the pick I don't think Deng has anything to do with it.
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Post by Clyde Drexler on May 23, 2014 13:46:43 GMT
I really don't think Deng wants to stay in Cleveland, if the Bulls don't get Melo or Love I could see him returning.
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Post by Clyde Drexler on May 23, 2014 13:48:53 GMT
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on May 23, 2014 15:13:38 GMT
Exum is a wildcard in this draft.
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Post by Ian Noble on May 23, 2014 15:22:00 GMT
Exum is a wildcard in this draft. There really isn't enough footage around, and it's all almost a year old.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on May 23, 2014 15:26:14 GMT
It all boils down to what do you think of the front office that gets him. If you think Sam Hinkie in Philly is a slick guy and he takes Exum over Parker then I say you take him and trust the pros.
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Post by Alex English on May 23, 2014 15:33:00 GMT
Milwaukee - not fashionable enough for Wiggins to stick around longer than his rookie contract. Parker has the work ethic and is humble enough to stick with the Bucks. That's an interesting thought process. You might not be wrong but Wiggins isn't that big media market type of guy. He's humble and very shy, whenever you watch his interviews you can tell he's nervous and doesn't really enjoy it. That's really been the knock on him, that he doesn't have the mentality to be the main guy.
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Post by Charles Barkley on May 23, 2014 19:18:31 GMT
I love how the big knock against Wiggins is that he is too humble, too nice, and doesn't have that "killer instinct". I mean, Wiggins is Canadian. Aren't his biggest faults the stereotypical Canadian personality?
Everyone seems to think Wiggins can work on his ball handling and outside shot but he can't develop the mamba mode. Didn't LeBron do this?
I know Philly needs talent and Embiid's agent won't let him go to the Bucks. So what if these events play out: Wiggins goes 1 to Cleveland, Milwaukee takes Parker, Philly passes on Embiid to take Gordon or Vonleh, Orlando ends up wanting to pair Exum with Dipo and Vucevic, Utah trades their 2 first rounders to Milwaukee for Parker.
Then you'd have a scenario where Milwaukee is picking at 5 again with Embiid as the best player on the board but his agent doesn't want him going there. Cleveland could use both Embiid and Wiggins, Philly doesn't necessarily need Embiid with Noel, Orlando has Vucevic, and, I think, Utah would rather have Parker than Embiid.
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Post by Charles Barkley on May 23, 2014 21:53:07 GMT
But I sure am glad I really only have to scout 6 guys. Really gives me some free time to do other things.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on May 23, 2014 22:48:13 GMT
But I sure am glad I really only have to scout 6 guys. Really gives me some free time to do other things. Because of this comment I think we should give me his pick.
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Post by Charles Barkley on May 24, 2014 4:59:36 GMT
Quick question for those GM's scouting out the players in this draft: Would you agree that Wiggins plays more like a slashing shooting guard than a true small-forward ala Jabari Parker who is comparable to Paul Pierce? I think Wiggins plays like a slashing shooting guard because, like most guys coming in to the league, he lacks a solid perimeter jumper. Lots of guys coming in to the league are one dimensional on offense. I think Parker is more complete in that sense than Wiggins, but because Parker lacks that elite athleticism, his defensive potential is far behind Wiggins. Parker is probably comparable to Pierce as well as Melo but Wiggins seems like Kobe without the jumper. At worst Wiggins is a plus defender who can get to the rim while Parker is another 15-20ppg a night guy. I'm honestly more intrigued by the guys on the big boards between 15 and 35 than I am the guys 1-15.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on May 24, 2014 5:12:32 GMT
Wiggins isn't really a slashing guard because he can't dribble.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on May 24, 2014 16:31:45 GMT
Davis>Embiid every day and twice on Sunday. Davis is a truly unique player. He is 6'11" with guard skills and a great shot blocker.
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Post by James Kay on May 24, 2014 17:27:36 GMT
Davis>Embiid every day and twice on Sunday. Davis is a truly unique player. He is 6'11" with guard skills and a great shot blocker. Plus an absolutely monster season at Kentucky - and winning the championship.
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Post by Charles Barkley on May 25, 2014 1:02:26 GMT
I think Wiggins plays like a slashing shooting guard because, like most guys coming in to the league, he lacks a solid perimeter jumper. Lots of guys coming in to the league are one dimensional on offense. I think Parker is more complete in that sense than Wiggins, but because Parker lacks that elite athleticism, his defensive potential is far behind Wiggins. Parker is probably comparable to Pierce as well as Melo but Wiggins seems like Kobe without the jumper. At worst Wiggins is a plus defender who can get to the rim while Parker is another 15-20ppg a night guy. I'm honestly more intrigued by the guys on the big boards between 15 and 35 than I am the guys 1-15. Would you take Anthony Davis over Joel Embiid if they were in the same rookie class? If it's the 2012 draft and I don't know that Anthony Davis would have done what hes done these first two years in the league, I take Embiid. The potential for Embiid is insane. Anthony Davis was a very limited offensive player coming out of college while Embiid can protect the rim and has the foot work to be a great offensive post player. I think worst case scenario, excluding injuries, Embiid is a Samuel Dalembert type player. I also think the safest guy with the most upside, balancing risk vs reward, is Wiggins. With the way the transition game is in the NBA and his athletic ability, at worse he is a guy who manages to get 8-10 a game and a good defender. Parker at worst is a guy who gets 15 a night which are a dime a dozen.
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on May 25, 2014 1:08:44 GMT
Anthony Davis would be the consensus #1 pick in every draft dating back to Greg Oden, IMO, and probably all the way back to Dwight. You just don't see a guy with his athleticism, size, and skills that often.
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Post by Clyde Drexler on May 25, 2014 1:11:23 GMT
If the draft goes Wiggins and Parker 1 and 2, what do you guys think Philly would do since they already have Noel?
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Post by Charles Barkley on May 25, 2014 1:34:51 GMT
Davis>Embiid every day and twice on Sunday. Davis is a truly unique player. He is 6'11" with guard skills and a great shot blocker. You're saying that because you have seen what Davis has done his first two years in the league. If they both were coming out in the same draft, GMs would want Embiid over Davis. He's 6'10" not 6'11" and his wingspan is a half inch shorter than Embiid's therefore Embiid's standing reach should be higher. I don't understand what these guard skills are. He was a shitty guard in high school and only received scholarship offers after he grew 7 inches. I mean, guard skills are great in a guard. And I suppose they're ok if you want your center bringing the ball up the floor. It isn't like Davis can shoot; he can't, most of his buckets come in the painted area. Yeah, sure Davis had more blocks in college, he also played nearly 10 minutes more a night and played 11 more games. Embiid also played against better competition in the Big-12 than Davis did in the SEC. No one calls in to question Embiid's rim protection and rebounding abilities. Davis may be better than Embiid in getting steals, blocking shots, and rebounds, but it isn't like Embiid is awful at those things; Embiid is a plus defender. Davis' offensive game compared to Embiid's is very lacking. And the potential that Embiid has offensively makes Davis' offensive potential pale in comparison. Embiid is a much better offensive post presence than what Davis' is now 2 years in to the league. And Embiid has only been playing basketball for something like 4 years while Davis' has been playing for much longer. Davis' may be this unique talent but Embiid is a prototypical 7 foot center that GMs have wet dreams about.
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Glenn Robinson
Milwaukee Bucks
Starter
Posts: 1,226
Mar 2, 2024 5:20:47 GMT
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Post by Glenn Robinson on May 25, 2014 2:08:27 GMT
Davis was a consensus #1 pick from day 1. Embiid hasn't even separated himself as a #1 pick from two other players in this draft yet. They both have tremendous upside, but I would take Davis over Embiid pretty easily. You also have to factor in the injury with Embiid and how this is his second time he has injured his back in the same place according to some reports. Lots to be suspicious about.
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Post by Charles Barkley on May 25, 2014 2:47:58 GMT
If the draft goes Wiggins and Parker 1 and 2, what do you guys think Philly would do since they already have Noel? I think the only way Embiid falls out of the top 2 is if his agent won't let Cleveland or Milwaukee see the medical reports. I think Utah will trade up to get Parker. So if it goes Wiggins and Parker, I think Philly trades back a spot or two and takes Vonleh. I think the top 4 picks will be Wiggins/Parker/Embiid/Exum in some order or another. But I could see Philly taking Embiid at 3. Duncan and Robinson seemed to work out pretty well together.
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Post by Alex English on May 25, 2014 2:52:15 GMT
If it's the 2012 draft and I don't know that Anthony Davis would have done what hes done these first two years in the league, I take Embiid. The potential for Embiid is insane. Anthony Davis was a very limited offensive player coming out of college while Embiid can protect the rim and has the foot work to be a great offensive post player. I think worst case scenario, excluding injuries, Embiid is a Samuel Dalembert type player. I also think the safest guy with the most upside, balancing risk vs reward, is Wiggins. With the way the transition game is in the NBA and his athletic ability, at worse he is a guy who manages to get 8-10 a game and a good defender. Parker at worst is a guy who gets 15 a night which are a dime a dozen. You're saying that because you have seen what Davis has done his first two years in the league. If they both were coming out in the same draft, GMs would want Embiid over Davis. He's 6'10" not 6'11" and his wingspan is a half inch shorter than Embiid's therefore Embiid's standing reach should be higher. I don't understand what these guard skills are. He was a shitty guard in high school and only received scholarship offers after he grew 7 inches. I mean, guard skills are great in a guard. And I suppose they're ok if you want your center bringing the ball up the floor. It isn't like Davis can shoot; he can't, most of his buckets come in the painted area. Yeah, sure Davis had more blocks in college, he also played nearly 10 minutes more a night and played 11 more games. Embiid also played against better competition in the Big-12 than Davis did in the SEC. No one calls in to question Embiid's rim protection and rebounding abilities. Davis may be better than Embiid in getting steals, blocking shots, and rebounds, but it isn't like Embiid is awful at those things; Embiid is a plus defender. Davis' offensive game compared to Embiid's is very lacking. And the potential that Embiid has offensively makes Davis' offensive potential pale in comparison. Embiid is a much better offensive post presence than what Davis' is now 2 years in to the league. And Embiid has only been playing basketball for something like 4 years while Davis' has been playing for much longer. Davis' may be this unique talent but Embiid is a prototypical 7 foot center that GMs have wet dreams about. Fuck potential. Anthony Davis is.
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Post by James Kay on May 25, 2014 3:30:13 GMT
It isn't like Davis can shoot; he can't, most of his buckets come in the painted area. Not sure if you actually watch basketball or AD play.... Davis can obviously shoot dude. www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/davisan02.html60% of his FGA are from outside 3 feet and he knocks them down at 40% which is very respectable. Plus his FT% is crazy high for a big man, pushing on 80%. AD would be the consensus #1, and with Embiid's back issues, it isn't even close.
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Post by Charles Barkley on May 25, 2014 15:19:49 GMT
Just so you guys get what I am saying, I love Anthony Davis. I would trade my whole team for Anthony Davis. I don't think Embiid will be better than Davis.
I just think if you forget these last 2 years ever happened and put Davis in this 2014 draft, he isn't a consensus number 1. Everyone is using these stats on him from his last two years in the league. His college game wasn't insanely amazing and he had very little of an offensive game compared to Embiid coming out of college.
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on May 25, 2014 15:29:08 GMT
Just so you guys get what I am saying, I love Anthony Davis. I would trade my whole team for Anthony Davis. I don't think Embiid will be better than Davis. I just think if you forget these last 2 years ever happened and put Davis in this 2014 draft, he isn't a consensus number 1. Everyone is using these stats on him from his last two years in the league. His college game wasn't insanely amazing and he had very little of an offensive game compared to Embiid coming out of college. Anthony Davis' college offense was much better than Embiid's lol. Embiid might eventually be better down low, but Davis relies a ton of the jumpshot and does so very effectively. Also, reports are that Cavs don't want Embiid anymore. They are saying it is back problems, but I think they are just using it as an excuse so people won't throw a fit when they take Wiggins or Parker.
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Post by Charles Barkley on May 25, 2014 17:38:49 GMT
I know Davis relied on the jumper in college and by all accounts would be physically dominant on the defensive end. If I am a GM and Davis is in this draft, I think Embiid is more developed offensively because of his already formidable post moves. The 2012 draft was good in 2012 and looking back on it now it looks great. But as prospects, I think Wiggins/Parker/Exum/Randle/Vonleh/Gordon are better than MKG/Beal/Waiters/Robinson/Lillard/Barnes, just pure prospect wise. There is a pretty good chance this 2014 draft class won't do what this 2012 class did in their first 2 years.
I ultimately believe Davis will keep developing his post game and get away from the jumper beside the 12 footers at the elbow. The Pelicans don't need floor spacing with Anderson and Gordon, they need Davis to play with his back to the basket and bang in the post. Davis shoots well for a big man, but, if I'm building a perfect big man robot, I don't want him shooting like Davis does.
The Cavs can't decide how they want their eggs in the morning, let alone what prospect they want to draft. Where Embiid goes will depend on what teams his agent gives the medical records to and if they even check out.
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on May 25, 2014 17:42:18 GMT
I have this spidey sense that the Cavs are gonna take Jabari Parker just because he is the most bust-proof of the big 3. The last thing the management in Cleveland wants is another blown #1 pick.
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Post by Charles Barkley on May 25, 2014 18:11:22 GMT
I have this spidey sense that the Cavs are gonna take Jabari Parker just because he is the most bust-proof of the big 3. The last thing the management in Cleveland wants is another blown #1 pick. I get that they don't want another bust. But Bennett hasn't really been a bust yet. The guy had a major shoulder problem, came in to camp overweight and the great mind of Mike Brown just put him on the end of the bench. I think the Cavs problem last year wasn't Bennett not playing well, but Mike Brown being the coach. I still have hope for Bennett and think he can be the black Kevin Love. This is Jabari's most recent workout I believe: I don't like how he holds the ball so low on step backs, like the whole motion of it just seems awkward to me. The whole motion of his body in his workout seems weird to me. His dribble moves don't seem fluid. This can all be attributed to him being 6'8" and "unathletic" though. This is Embiid's workout at the same camp the Jabari one was: When I compare these two workouts, I like Embiid ALOT more than Parker. Embiid has crazy athleticism for a big man his size. Throw in the fact that he is still very very raw. Parker did impress me, I had Parker out of the top 3, and I've put him back at 3 after watching that.
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Post by Charles Barkley on May 25, 2014 18:15:47 GMT
On another note, Stauskas from that same camp, looked really good.
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Glenn Robinson
Milwaukee Bucks
Starter
Posts: 1,226
Mar 2, 2024 5:20:47 GMT
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Post by Glenn Robinson on May 25, 2014 19:15:37 GMT
All those workout videos have extensive editing, and are shot at angles that show power and quickness. You need to take them with a grain of salt. Chad Ford had already mentioned that Jabari missed a few shots and was winded during that workout he was doing in the video.
I think at the end of the day, Cleveland or whoever trades for the #1 pick, is going to have a hard time passing up on Embiid. Physically it seems as though his back is healed, he's gained an extra 15 pounds of muscle since the end of the season putting him at around 265 and is quick with great foot speed for a 7ft center. I think the back concerns are due to him only playing 4 years and his body not use to the physicality of basketball. Putting on 15 pounds and not showing an ounce of pain is very encouraging.
I think Cleveland will take Embiid at #1 followed by Wiggins going to Milwaukee at #2. Wiggins has a lot of boom or bust potential.
I think Jabari is a sure thing to be an all-star one day but not a superstar. Wiggins and Embiid however, have superstar potential but a much greater bust potential than Jabari.
Do you go for the sure all-star or take a chance and go for the potential franchise changing superstar?
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