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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Feb 24, 2015 15:18:57 GMT
yep. I know that. But as what Charles have said, it seems no BR players have ever left their current team. Maybe if we can do some votation to determine who are those who will surely leave in the offseason, it will make it more smoother in the offseason and also lessen the pressure on the PAs. I'd have to look back to other years, and I know he's not a cornerstone stud player, but I had Taj Gibson leave the 76ers this offseason. When it comes down to it, IF the team is committed to the player, IF the team is a winning team, IF they still have a starting position of importance on their team available for the player, and IF they have a good future spread in front of them, there is little reason for a player to leave. Fact is, a lot of BR player's teams are cognizant of this and do everything they can to keep their BR players. Yep. I know. Just forgot about my suggestion coz I realize that it will not totally solve the problem.
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Feb 24, 2015 15:20:16 GMT
Tim Duncan left JR's Spurs because, I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong, there was some neglectfulness on the part of JR (like saying he didn't want to re-sign TD and then not attempting to re-sign him, hehe). The tricky thing is that, in real life, there's a hundred reasons why a player might leave a team, whereas here we have to use the OSFA criteria: 1. Money Offered (Player Agents will work to keep salaries realistic, but it doesn't hurt to show you're committed) 2. Playing time. 3. The chances of success with your team (playoff/championship calibre) 4. How much dedication you have shown to the player. 5. Whether your team is a "big market" team, or a team with "prestige" or history. 6. The player's perceived real-life personality traits. 7. The perceived effort you put into making a offer. maybe its time to get away with that criteria. hmmm.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2015 15:22:52 GMT
yep. I know that. But as what Charles have said, it seems no BR players have ever left their current team. Maybe if we can do some votation to determine who are those who will surely leave in the offseason, it will make it more smoother in the offseason and also lessen the pressure on the PAs. I'd have to look back to other years, and I know he's not a cornerstone stud player, but I had Taj Gibson leave the 76ers this offseason. When it comes down to it, IF the team is committed to the player, IF the team is a winning team, IF they still have a starting position of importance on their team available for the player, and IF they have a good future spread in front of them, there is little reason for a player to leave. Fact is, a lot of BR player's teams are cognizant of this and do everything they can to keep their BR players. Tim Duncan left the Spurs a few seasons back to sign with Portland. Glenn Robinson(PA Reasoning: SA GM was looking at the trade value of TD..And for some reason Portland had a better shot at the title. The season before FA, TD and the Spurs had the best record in the West and Lost to the Clippers in the conference finals. The Spurs had just as much chance to make a run at it again. TD was having an off year rating wise. All this the Season before the Spurs won the Title IRL and TD had MVP season. Portland for him for $6 mil per year. I had BR and offered TD $15 mil per year to stay. Yea most players try to stay. 99% of all NBA players follow the $$ no matter what anyone says. I guess TD was suppose to be at his end that season. It sure looks like it seasons later. A title later. Multiple finals appearances and TD still playing better than 90% of the league. Nothing is guaranteed!! And deciding that a plate is leaving before the season ends and announcing it to anyone in the bidding is stupid. Damn stupid. Seriously. TD should not have left that year. Many GMs have told me that since that off-season. It hurt my team and my decisions with the team after has made it so I hear it everyday and in every trade now. But players with BR do leave, can leave..will leave and might...but $$$ TALKS...and even if you have a players BE a...plan on offering the top amt or even because NBA players will leave for the money!!! FACT!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2015 15:26:27 GMT
I don't feel like editing my phone's errors...but you get the point...
$$$$$$TALKS$$$$$$$
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2015 15:30:46 GMT
Tim Duncan left JR's Spurs because, I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong, there was some neglectfulness on the part of JR (like saying he didn't want to re-sign TD and then not attempting to re-sign him, hehe). The tricky thing is that, in real life, there's a hundred reasons why a player might leave a team, whereas here we have to use the OSFA criteria: 1. Money Offered (Player Agents will work to keep salaries realistic, but it doesn't hurt to show you're committed) 2. Playing time. 3. The chances of success with your team (playoff/championship calibre) 4. How much dedication you have shown to the player. 5. Whether your team is a "big market" team, or a team with "prestige" or history. 6. The player's perceived real-life personality traits. 7. The perceived effort you put into making a offer. maybe its time to get away with that criteria. hmmm. WTF...NO I offered him a contract!!! Why take up for his mistake.... I don't get it. Most all other GMs knew and saw the error and knew I should have resigned him. But you still act like it's a joke. I offered the most money as well as had BRs. That was the worst mistake you let go in the league Ian. And I still don't think you see it or get it... If your laughing about it...you don't!!
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Post by Ian Noble on Feb 24, 2015 15:44:14 GMT
maybe its time to get away with that criteria. hmmm. WTF...NO I offered him a contract!!! Why take up for his mistake.... I don't get it. Most all other GMs knew and saw the error and knew I should have resigned him. But you still act like it's a joke. I offered the most money as well as had BRs. That was the worst mistake you let go in the league Ian. And I still don't think you see it or get it... If your laughing about it...you don't!! It's your word versus Glenn Robinson's word basically. I don't know exactly how it happened.
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Post by Shaquille O'Neal on Feb 24, 2015 15:51:16 GMT
Tim Duncan left JR's Spurs because, I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong, there was some neglectfulness on the part of JR (like saying he didn't want to re-sign TD and then not attempting to re-sign him, hehe). The tricky thing is that, in real life, there's a hundred reasons why a player might leave a team, whereas here we have to use the OSFA criteria: 1. Money Offered (Player Agents will work to keep salaries realistic, but it doesn't hurt to show you're committed) 2. Playing time. 3. The chances of success with your team (playoff/championship calibre) 4. How much dedication you have shown to the player. 5. Whether your team is a "big market" team, or a team with "prestige" or history. 6. The player's perceived real-life personality traits. 7. The perceived effort you put into making a offer. maybe its time to get away with that criteria. hmmm. AND WHAT ARE YOUR SUGGESTIONS?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2015 15:55:17 GMT
WTF...NO I offered him a contract!!! Why take up for his mistake.... I don't get it. Most all other GMs knew and saw the error and knew I should have resigned him. But you still act like it's a joke. I offered the most money as well as had BRs. That was the worst mistake you let go in the league Ian. And I still don't think you see it or get it... If your laughing about it...you don't!! It's your word versus Glenn Robinson's word basically. I don't know exactly how it happened. Your the Commisioner. You know how it went down. Many many GMs here know about it..but they would never speak up about it. Its the past but to laugh about it makes me mad seriously. I offered $9 more million per year. $$$ talks IRL I guess that's why I commented again here.... DONT TRUST ANY PLAYER AGENT AND EVEN THOUGH YOU THINK YOUR PLAYER SHOULD OR WILL RESIGN... ITS NOT A FACT OR 100% HE WILL!!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2015 15:59:45 GMT
And it's not my word against his!
It's my word--THE TRUTH...
WHICH MANY GMS KNOW... Just don't understand anyone hiding behind that.
It was a mistake and error...no one has enough balls to man up for the mistake or letting it happen or not changing it.
Too many of those errors can hurt a league. I for one have left it go and I've been good about it. Its better for the league.
But laughing about it is not fair or funny. It's a wonder any GM that went through that would still be around...
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Post by Alex English on Feb 24, 2015 16:14:36 GMT
I obviously don't know exactly what went on, but JR, I absolutely remember you saying publicly in the chatbox that you didn't want to re-sign Duncan.
Assuming you did have the highest offer though then I still think TD should have re-signed. Tim Duncan is the San Antonio Spurs. You and Gregg Popovich would have to go and murder his entire family for him to realistically leave San Antonio.
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Post by Alex English on Feb 24, 2015 16:17:31 GMT
Tim Duncan left JR's Spurs because, I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong, there was some neglectfulness on the part of JR (like saying he didn't want to re-sign TD and then not attempting to re-sign him, hehe). The tricky thing is that, in real life, there's a hundred reasons why a player might leave a team, whereas here we have to use the OSFA criteria: 1. Money Offered (Player Agents will work to keep salaries realistic, but it doesn't hurt to show you're committed) 2. Playing time. 3. The chances of success with your team (playoff/championship calibre) 4. How much dedication you have shown to the player. 5. Whether your team is a "big market" team, or a team with "prestige" or history. 6. The player's perceived real-life personality traits. 7. The perceived effort you put into making a offer. maybe its time to get away with that criteria. hmmm. In favour of what? That's essentially all the relevant criteria right there. Should we flip coins instead?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2015 16:17:44 GMT
I'd have to look back to other years, and I know he's not a cornerstone stud player, but I had Taj Gibson leave the 76ers this offseason. When it comes down to it, IF the team is committed to the player, IF the team is a winning team, IF they still have a starting position of importance on their team available for the player, and IF they have a good future spread in front of them, there is little reason for a player to leave. Fact is, a lot of BR player's teams are cognizant of this and do everything they can to keep their BR players. Tim Duncan left the Spurs a few seasons back to sign with Portland. Glenn Robinson(PA Reasoning: SA GM was looking at the trade value of TD..And for some reason Portland had a better shot at the title. The season before FA, TD and the Spurs had the best record in the West and Lost to the Clippers in the conference finals. The Spurs had just as much chance to make a run at it again. TD was having an off year rating wise. All this the Season before the Spurs won the Title IRL and TD had MVP season. Portland for him for $6 mil per year. I had BR and offered TD $15 mil per year to stay. Yea most players try to stay. 99% of all NBA players follow the $$ no matter what anyone says. I guess TD was suppose to be at his end that season. It sure looks like it seasons later. A title later. Multiple finals appearances and TD still playing better than 90% of the league. Nothing is guaranteed!! And deciding that a plate is leaving before the season ends and announcing it to anyone in the bidding is stupid. Damn stupid. Seriously. TD should not have left that year. Many GMs have told me that since that off-season. It hurt my team and my decisions with the team after has made it so I hear it everyday and in every trade now. But players with BR do leave, can leave..will leave and might...but $$$ TALKS...and even if you have a players BE a...plan on offering the top amt or even because NBA players will leave for the money!!! FACT!!!! JR is super right here guys.
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Post by Ian Noble on Feb 24, 2015 16:48:14 GMT
I obviously don't know exactly what went on, but JR, I absolutely remember you saying publicly in the chatbox that you didn't want to re-sign Duncan. Assuming you did have the highest offer though then I still think TD should have re-signed. Tim Duncan is the San Antonio Spurs. You and Gregg Popovich would have to go and murder his entire family for him to realistically leave San Antonio. From the signing thread: "A few days ago it was known that JR Wiles did not even want to re-sign Duncan, as he went on a rant in the chat log."
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Post by Ian Noble on Feb 24, 2015 16:51:40 GMT
I think it is still a controversy because JR did make an offer and it was the max, but there was the rant in the shoutbox and there was all this: "Money had no affect in this negotiation JR. You could have offered all the money in the world, but you completely dismantled a championship contending team. Your best player currently is Ben Gordon. Duncan is trying to chase a championship, and you knew that going into negotiations. I have kept you in the loop throughout this process and tried to be fair to everyone. Portland put up a good offer, somewhat comparable to what Tim got in real life, and he has better pieces to put around Duncan."
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Post by Alex English on Feb 24, 2015 16:54:49 GMT
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Post by Ian Noble on Feb 24, 2015 16:58:21 GMT
Oh shit I'm totally digressing now, we need to stay on topic.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2015 17:57:58 GMT
Oh shit I'm totally digressing now, we need to stay on topic. Our team got screwed over that's the point. And it could happen again. Money should like it does in real life take priority over all other things. Most of the time they follow the money. In my case even with my mistakes and how I handled my words...TD should have NEVER left no matter what. He should still be here and retire a Spur. 1. He is a franchise player and should have stayed to retire. 2. We offered Max money and contract..not the MLE he took. 3. We Just got done a season where we lost In the conference finals and had the best record in the West and the 2nd best record in the league. 4. Even though I traded Ginobili and Parker is no reason a franchise player would leave. The team built a winner around TD and who knows they could have again around him If he resigned. Money talks and PAs make mistakes... SO DONT COUNT ON YOUR FA WITH BIRD RIGHTS RESIGNING... ITS NOT 100%
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Glenn Robinson
Milwaukee Bucks
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Post by Glenn Robinson on Feb 24, 2015 21:59:01 GMT
Not this again...
Had JR not gone on his rant about not wanting to re-sign Duncan (Which many other GM's can confirm they saw) then TD probably would have went back to San Antonio. Guess it worked out for the best because Tim won a championship in Portland.
Move on already.
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Post by Charles Barkley on Feb 24, 2015 22:30:44 GMT
What I meant by my original BR comment was that no player has left a team that had BR for comparable money elsewhere. It seems I was mistaken in the Tim Duncan situation, but that ordeal seems to have more behind it than just money. And I think Walt mentioned on the Taj Gibson signing that Philly didn't pursue him, I could be wrong on that though.
This is still the Hard Cap thread, so I'll make a comment about it. In the recent trade between the Heat, Sixers, and Pacers, I highly doubt Troy had much put much thought into what taking on Iggy's contract would mean long term for his team. Could I be wrong about that? Yeah, I'm not reading Troy's mind or anything. But it just goes to show that when a team has it's core group of players and their BR's, they need not put much thought into what contracts they are taking on, instead it is more about the player at the current point in time.
Iggy will likely see future decreases, and probably multiple ones at that, as his career winds down in Golden State, and it will make his contract look insane. Yet, Troy is only thinking about the now, and winning the championship now, and not caring about what it does to his team in the future, nor about any penalties imposed for being way over the cap.
There needs to be some sort of balance there. Some sort of give and take, risk and reward. Or else we will be faced with multiple teams, not just Denver and Miami, being able to say fuck the cap and take on fairly large contracts.
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Feb 24, 2015 22:55:58 GMT
maybe its time to get away with that criteria. hmmm. AND WHAT ARE YOUR SUGGESTIONS? Maybe its much better and much more realistic if we put the number 6 on the top because at the end of the day, his traits will still be the main determinant of his decision IRL. Then all the others should be jumbled as fit for each FA in the upcoming off season. Or if that is too much work maybe for the top 20 only. Just my opinion.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Feb 24, 2015 23:59:36 GMT
What I meant by my original BR comment was that no player has left a team that had BR for comparable money elsewhere. It seems I was mistaken in the Tim Duncan situation, but that ordeal seems to have more behind it than just money. And I think Walt mentioned on the Taj Gibson signing that Philly didn't pursue him, I could be wrong on that though. This is still the Hard Cap thread, so I'll make a comment about it. In the recent trade between the Heat, Sixers, and Pacers, I highly doubt Troy had much put much thought into what taking on Iggy's contract would mean long term for his team. Could I be wrong about that? Yeah, I'm not reading Troy's mind or anything. But it just goes to show that when a team has it's core group of players and their BR's, they need not put much thought into what contracts they are taking on, instead it is more about the player at the current point in time. Iggy will likely see future decreases, and probably multiple ones at that, as his career winds down in Golden State, and it will make his contract look insane. Yet, Troy is only thinking about the now, and winning the championship now, and not caring about what it does to his team in the future, nor about any penalties imposed for being way over the cap. There needs to be some sort of balance there. Some sort of give and take, risk and reward. Or else we will be faced with multiple teams, not just Denver and Miami, being able to say fuck the cap and take on fairly large contracts. Nah, Philly wanted Taj. The issue was he was just young enough to go out and try to be a star on a team still, and he had never had that opportunity before. He was going to be a 6th man in Philly.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2015 0:51:33 GMT
Not this again... Had JR not gone on his rant about not wanting to re-sign Duncan (Which many other GM's can confirm they saw) then TD probably would have went back to San Antonio. Guess it worked out for the best because Tim won a championship in Portland. Move on already. We have moved on. The fact was that PAs are people and make mistakes. So new GMs and all others realize no FA is guaranteed or safe. Shit happens. It was brought up because the thought was that GMs with players with BRs would sign again. We stated that was not true. There were teams that lost BRs players for whatever reason. But Ian again made it a joke about Duncan. Truly that being ignorant. The situation was ignorant. You the PA at the time..thank god are not a current PA. You did a horrible job. Like others said Duncan should have stayed. But its the past. Your not a PA because you sucked at it and all GMs now know that players with BRs are not guaranteed to resign. There are steps that get looked at and now GMs can talk about making that decision better. My point was a point that's a fact per real life NBA players...that is.. players 99% of the time sign for the most $$...which should be deciding factor #1. Now...Moving on...
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Post by Shaquille O'Neal on Feb 25, 2015 2:32:52 GMT
AND WHAT ARE YOUR SUGGESTIONS? Maybe its much better and much more realistic if we put the number 6 on the top because at the end of the day, his traits will still be the main determinant of his decision IRL. Then all the others should be jumbled as fit for each FA in the upcoming off season. Or if that is too much work maybe for the top 20 only. Just my opinion. yeah right so that Lebron will come to cleveland. i get it. nice suggestion but its a bit obvious.
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Post by Shaquille O'Neal on Feb 25, 2015 2:45:04 GMT
What I meant by my original BR comment was that no player has left a team that had BR for comparable money elsewhere. It seems I was mistaken in the Tim Duncan situation, but that ordeal seems to have more behind it than just money. And I think Walt mentioned on the Taj Gibson signing that Philly didn't pursue him, I could be wrong on that though. This is still the Hard Cap thread, so I'll make a comment about it. In the recent trade between the Heat, Sixers, and Pacers, I highly doubt Troy had much put much thought into what taking on Iggy's contract would mean long term for his team. Could I be wrong about that? Yeah, I'm not reading Troy's mind or anything. But it just goes to show that when a team has it's core group of players and their BR's, they need not put much thought into what contracts they are taking on, instead it is more about the player at the current point in time. Iggy will likely see future decreases, and probably multiple ones at that, as his career winds down in Golden State, and it will make his contract look insane. Yet, Troy is only thinking about the now, and winning the championship now, and not caring about what it does to his team in the future, nor about any penalties imposed for being way over the cap. There needs to be some sort of balance there. Some sort of give and take, risk and reward. Or else we will be faced with multiple teams, not just Denver and Miami, being able to say fuck the cap and take on fairly large contracts. I still think of the future, Iggy's contract will become an asset after 3 years. trust me, i traded Amare before. Also after a year who want's Kamans' contract? it's better to trade for some value than a contract that is stuck at your team for a long time. if the hard cap will be implemented next year (which i think is not happening), i think i can handle trading Wallace and Bynum's 2 year poison contract.
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Post by Shaquille O'Neal on Feb 25, 2015 2:51:54 GMT
FOR 3 YEARS I'VE BEEN ASKING EVERYONE EVERY SEASON IF THERE IS A HARD CAP, THESE GUYS ARE ALWAYS SAYING THERE IS NO HARD CAP SO I MADE MY DECISIONS NOT THINKING ABOUT IT. IF SUDDENLY YOU GUYS WILL MAKE A NEW RULE ABOUT HARD CAP BECAUSE YOU GUYS FEEL BEING ROBBED BY ME OR DENVER, I REALLY THINK YOU SHOULD ASK YOURSELF FIRST ON WHY YOU DID'NT TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE RULE GIVEN?
I KNOW THE ANSWER, BECAUSE YOU GUYS KEEP ON TRADING FOR PICKS TIME AFTER TIME AND ALWAYS THINKING ABOUT FUTURE AND YOUNG PLAYERS AND FREE AGENCY. IS IT MY FAULT OR DENVER'S FAULT YOU DON'T WANT TO WIN?
I REALLY DO BELIEVE THAT IF WE WANT THIS HARD CAP, WE NEED TO DO THIS 2 SEASONS FROM NOW SO MY TEAM CAN ADJUST TO THE "NEW RULE"
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Post by Shaquille O'Neal on Feb 25, 2015 3:00:31 GMT
IT'S LIKE TELLING A KID TO GO INSIDE THE ROOM BECAUSE THERE ARE NO SNAKES, BUT WHEN THE KID WENT INSIDE YOU SUDDENLY THREW A BASKET OF SNAKES AND LOCKED THE DOOR AND YOU WILL TELL THE KID I'M SORRY, THESE NEW GUYS (charles, hanamichi, whoever want's this cap to be done immediately and not even part of the season 1 and 2 where there is no hard cap) TOLD US WE NEED TO PUT SNAKES ON THE ROOM.
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Feb 25, 2015 3:18:40 GMT
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Feb 25, 2015 3:18:40 GMT
^ agree with Troy 100%, which is why I'm against the hard cap. Everyone knew what they were getting into. Everyone knew the rules when they trade players to Denver or Miami. We can't punish them for using it as a strategy.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2015 3:23:58 GMT
yes I think a grace period is best but just because some people have done it doesn't mean we should let it be done forever. It will be better for the league if Miami in Denver the last two teams to ever be able to do it.
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Glenn Robinson
Milwaukee Bucks
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Mar 2, 2024 5:20:47 GMT
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Post by Glenn Robinson on Feb 25, 2015 3:41:19 GMT
Not this again... Had JR not gone on his rant about not wanting to re-sign Duncan (Which many other GM's can confirm they saw) then TD probably would have went back to San Antonio. Guess it worked out for the best because Tim won a championship in Portland. Move on already. We have moved on. The fact was that PAs are people and make mistakes. So new GMs and all others realize no FA is guaranteed or safe. Shit happens. It was brought up because the thought was that GMs with players with BRs would sign again. We stated that was not true. There were teams that lost BRs players for whatever reason. But Ian again made it a joke about Duncan. Truly that being ignorant. The situation was ignorant. You the PA at the time..thank god are not a current PA. You did a horrible job. Like others said Duncan should have stayed. But its the past. Your not a PA because you sucked at it and all GMs now know that players with BRs are not guaranteed to resign. There are steps that get looked at and now GMs can talk about making that decision better. My point was a point that's a fact per real life NBA players...that is.. players 99% of the time sign for the most $$...which should be deciding factor #1. Now...Moving on... Do you have no filter on your thoughts or just spew out whatever comes to mind? I could say the same thing about your GMing... You're one of the worst. Moving on...
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Feb 25, 2015 6:55:42 GMT
Maybe its much better and much more realistic if we put the number 6 on the top because at the end of the day, his traits will still be the main determinant of his decision IRL. Then all the others should be jumbled as fit for each FA in the upcoming off season. Or if that is too much work maybe for the top 20 only. Just my opinion. yeah right so that Lebron will come to cleveland. i get it. nice suggestion but its a bit obvious. You know that he will comeback if you don't win the crown. That's already a given
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