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Post by Charles Barkley on Apr 29, 2015 4:39:35 GMT
But I think the bigger issue here is how we treat playoff and end of season injuries. There's going to be a lot of players who "elect" to have surgery on a nagging issue, something like back spasms, or a player could have surgery to completely repair torn ligaments from an old ankle sprain. These players wouldn't have this surgery if it were in season. I think the Parsons case is important. And I don't feel like he should be on the IR, I'm kind of flip flopping on that stance, but I think that if it were mid season, he wouldn't have the surgery. I feel that he is "electing" to have this surgery, rather than being forced into it. It isn't like he has an ACL tear and needs the surgery. There's going to be lots of players that are on our teams that will have elected surgeries and I don't think we can count them on the IR. And then how do we tell what is an "elected" surgery, and what is not. So, I don't know. I am in the position now, after thinking about it for a day or so, that no playoff injury should be counted. I think everyone's obsession with Holiday is warranted, but I think people are taking it to an extreme and purposefully blaming Glenn. I think an easy solution for Holiday is to hold him out the rest of the regular season in here, like he basically was in real life, and then let him play in the playoffs, as was the case in real life. I know the RL Holiday in the playoffs had a minutes limit, but I think that is about as fair as it gets without penalizing a GM for something that isn't his fault. The fault lies with our NBA counterparts and their terrible injury reporting process. Being one of the worst teams in the west for the next year or two, I don't have much dog in this fight either way. But imagining if people "could" play seems a little weird. What if Jabari Parker "could've" come back for the Bucks playoffs but they decided not to because they knew they had no shot? I think, while it will cause some hurt feelings, having a subjective injury list based on how people "feel" about injuries will cause more of this huge drama thread we have here. We need to base it 100% on games missed, and not give a fuck about why. It will hurt some people, and help others, but the blame won't be on Ian or on any of us, but rather on the real NBA counterparts, as you've said. It brings too much subjectivity and too much bullshit. As you see for the last 5 pages. I've seen this thread since I've joined go from an injury reporting thread to a full on shitstorm because of the subjectivity of our current injury system. Wanting it to become more subjective with things like voting will only make it worse and make the league less fun and fair. Parsons should be out, Holiday should be out, we should wait on information with Love. If he is out for season then he is out for season. That's just the most objective way to put it. I think aiming for objectivity is the best bet, rather than what people feel is "fair". Objectivity is the highest form of fair. So the same rules apply to everyone no matter what. I agree with your statements and believe that we should be objective in the matters of injury because it is the most fairest way to do it. But I don't think we can start now after nearly a full season of the way we ran things. I think the ideal injury system is objectivity, but in all fairness, we can't just implement it now. We've had the whole season go by doing it one way, to switch over now would not be fair. I mentioned in my post, or at least tried to, that some injuries are different than others. I mean, obviously an ACL tear is different than pain in the knee, which is what Parsons has. Of course Parker isn't going to come back after an ACL tear, the re-injury rate from that type of injury is extremely high, and then when you consider that most athletes will begin to favor that injured knee, and put more weight onto the un-injured knee, you have even more risk of injury. ACL's are fucking terrible, its a little string like ligament that is so vulnerable to athletes, and yet it is hugely important in maintaining structural strength in the knee. But you have other injuries that are completely different than an ACL tear or an achilles tear, minor nagging pains that players played through all season that they may elect to have surgery on rather than wait out the human healing process. If a player elects to have one of these surgeries, what will we do then? Will we put them on IR and have them miss our season, even though they could have played through the injury, and likely did play through the injury all season? There's a tough situation coming with players having surgery in the off-season while we are still in-season. Which is maybe why we should hold off on off-season injuries. Playoff injuries are also different. You will have guys trying to play through things, like we saw with Holiday, who shouldn't have been playing IMHO. And Tony Parker's achilles, he would probably miss time in-season, but is playing through it. Or Conley's face. I'm not saying those guys would miss 6+ weeks in the regular season, I am just trying to point out that they are playing through things that they would likely miss a couple weeks for. |
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Deleted
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Nov 30, 2024 8:53:45 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2015 4:50:35 GMT
I agree, I don't care a whole lot about what happens this season, I am much more concerned with moving forward. But people with their hats in the ring this year care, and they should.
And I agree with your sentiments on playing through injuries, but I still think just finding a games-missed mark that everyone can agree on is the most objective and thus the most fair situation. Whether those games missed are playoff games, or not.
If the IRL NBA season (and playoffs) is over, and lebron james falls off his scooter and breaks his leg, he should remain healthy for the entire d5 season, but if he misses games in the 2015 season, then he can miss games the next year. Thats the best way to make it "fair" that you see.
That way someone like Parsons, who is getting surgery at the end of the season wouldn't be placed on IR because he didn't actually even miss any games.
You agree? I think this sounds best.
Why should somebody who doesn't miss a single game in the 2014-2015 NBA season be placed on IR for half of the 2014-2015 D5 season? It's stupid.
I've said it the entire thread, and I'll say it again. Games missed is the simplest, most objective, and fairest way to have an injury system moving forward.
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Post by Charles Barkley on Apr 29, 2015 5:35:39 GMT
I agree, I don't care a whole lot about what happens this season, I am much more concerned with moving forward. But people with their hats in the ring this year care, and they should. And I agree with your sentiments on playing through injuries, but I still think just finding a games-missed mark that everyone can agree on is the most objective and thus the most fair situation. Whether those games missed are playoff games, or not. If the IRL NBA season (and playoffs) is over, and lebron james falls off his scooter and breaks his leg, he should remain healthy for the entire d5 season, but if he misses games in the 2015 season, then he can miss games the next year. Thats the best way to make it "fair" that you see. That way someone like Parsons, who is getting surgery at the end of the season wouldn't be placed on IR because he didn't actually even miss any games. You agree? I think this sounds best. Why should somebody who doesn't miss a single game in the 2014-2015 NBA season be placed on IR for half of the 2014-2015 D5 season? It's stupid. I've said it the entire thread, and I'll say it again. Games missed is the simplest, most objective, and fairest way to have an injury system moving forward. Yes, I agree. The Parsons thing in particular is what I am trying to say, I think you just articulated better than I did. His surgery won't cause him to miss any games in the NBA, because it is the off-season, so why should he miss games in here? Case and point. |
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Apr 29, 2015 6:07:33 GMT
So we should make Glenn lose Parsons starting now till the end of the season? That's retarded.
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Apr 29, 2015 8:19:12 GMT
This is stupid, everyone is cool with the system until their own players get injured. Love, Parsons, Rondo, Holiday all need to be out for the rest of the season in D5. That's the system we implemented and that's what we gotta stick with. Everyone else in the league has been dealing with it all season. You guys over here trying to start pro-rating injuries now that your own guys are on the list lololol
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Apr 29, 2015 19:39:20 GMT
This is stupid, everyone is cool with the system until their own players get injured. Love, Parsons, Rondo, Holiday all need to be out for the rest of the season in D5. That's the system we implemented and that's what we gotta stick with. Everyone else in the league has been dealing with it all season. You guys over here trying to start pro-rating injuries now that your own guys are on the list lololol Can't you read? |
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Apr 29, 2015 19:44:17 GMT
This is stupid, everyone is cool with the system until their own players get injured. Love, Parsons, Rondo, Holiday all need to be out for the rest of the season in D5. That's the system we implemented and that's what we gotta stick with. Everyone else in the league has been dealing with it all season. You guys over here trying to start pro-rating injuries now that your own guys are on the list lololol Parsons has missed 1 game at the end of the season so he deserves to be lost by glen for 20+ that's freaking retarded. |
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Apr 29, 2015 19:44:38 GMT
Thats freaking basic math.
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838 
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Apr 30, 2015 12:19:20 GMT
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Post by Ian Noble on May 1, 2015 17:09:14 GMT
Kevin Love added Charles Barkley. Whatever the injury system ends up like, it will include injuries like Kevin Love's: it happened during a game, he would've been out for longer than 6 weeks etc.etc. The surgery he's opted to have doesn't affect that. |
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Post by Charles Barkley on May 2, 2015 11:48:31 GMT
Kevin Love added Charles Barkley. Whatever the injury system ends up like, it will include injuries like Kevin Love's: it happened during a game, he would've been out for longer than 6 weeks etc.etc. The surgery he's opted to have doesn't affect that. I get that. I'm just not thrilled with the idea that I lose him for a month+ since our seasons don't align and I am in a playoff seeding battle. I'd like this to be remedied most of all next season. In the next season scenario, instead of losing Kevin Love for an extra month, I would just lose him for the playoffs. I think that is the fairest way to do it, when you have playoff injuries. |
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Post by JR on May 2, 2015 15:49:37 GMT
Kevin Love added Charles Barkley. Whatever the injury system ends up like, it will include injuries like Kevin Love's: it happened during a game, he would've been out for longer than 6 weeks etc.etc. The surgery he's opted to have doesn't affect that. I get that. I'm just not thrilled with the idea that I lose him for a month+ since our seasons don't align and I am in a playoff seeding battle. I'd like this to be remedied most of all next season. In the next season scenario, instead of losing Kevin Love for an extra month, I would just lose him for the playoffs. I think that is the fairest way to do it, when you have playoff injuries. I am still around. Its kinda hard not to check in. Its part of my life I guess you could say. I def have been stressed out lately with the league. I know I shouldn't quit. This is the 2nd time in how many years.. Funny thing is each time I come back, it puts me back to rookie because of amount of posts. If you guys accept me...I would like to stay SA gm. I didn't go anywhere. And I won't.. Until there is no league. I can't promise no fighting or bitching, but if I come back you already know what your getting!! Anyway, I feel for you Charles. I do. I agree that by stated rules Love is out and should be, but I feel that it's VERY UNFAIR that Love is out..BUT Jrue Holiday gets to play the rest of the season with no chance to be put on the IR- Even though he doesn't deserve to be playing and deserves to be put on IR..more and more..each game played. I don't care if its a bad decision or not. I don't care if it was something missed... If Holiday plays..Love should. Not trying to stir up things. I'm all about fairness. If not understanding reasons that are legit.. Tell me... PS...Glenn.... I hope you do win it all. You will be remembered as the gm that only won it the season we adopted an injury system that was unorganized, messed up...and the most lopsided season in D5 history because of it. We will have to come up with a name for the season! Now if you don't win it all, it will still be the above stated issue.. But hopefully at least it will be a gm that was not personally player involved. I would personally not play him out of respect and dignity for the league and even more so myself and my team. Don't get me wrong, you have a good team..when healthy! When players should be playing! |
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JR Wiles
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Post by JR Wiles on May 2, 2015 17:14:24 GMT
I get that. I'm just not thrilled with the idea that I lose him for a month+ since our seasons don't align and I am in a playoff seeding battle. I'd like this to be remedied most of all next season. In the next season scenario, instead of losing Kevin Love for an extra month, I would just lose him for the playoffs. I think that is the fairest way to do it, when you have playoff injuries. I am still around. Its kinda hard not to check in. Its part of my life I guess you could say. I def have been stressed out lately with the league. I know I shouldn't quit. This is the 2nd time in how many years.. Funny thing is each time I come back, it puts me back to rookie because of amount of posts. If you guys accept me...I would like to stay SA gm. I didn't go anywhere. And I won't.. Until there is no league. I can't promise no fighting or bitching, but if I come back you already know what your getting!! Anyway, I feel for you Charles. I do. I agree that by stated rules Love is out and should be, but I feel that it's VERY UNFAIR that Love is out..BUT Jrue Holiday gets to play the rest of the season with no chance to be put on the IR- Even though he doesn't deserve to be playing and deserves to be put on IR..more and more..each game played. I don't care if its a bad decision or not. I don't care if it was something missed... If Holiday plays..Love should. Not trying to stir up things. I'm all about fairness. If not understanding reasons that are legit.. Tell me... PS...Glenn.... I hope you do win it all. You will be remembered as the gm that only won it the season we adopted an injury system that was unorganized, messed up...and the most lopsided season in D5 history because of it. We will have to come up with a name for the season! Now if you don't win it all, it will still be the above stated issue.. But hopefully at least it will be a gm that was not personally player involved. I would personally not play him out of respect and dignity for the league and even more so myself and my team. Don't get me wrong, you have a good team..when healthy! When players should be playing! "Never going Away!!" |
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Post by Sam Bowie on May 2, 2015 17:22:18 GMT
I wonder if there is a way to restore JR's old account.  |
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Glenn Robinson
 Milwaukee Bucks
Starter
Posts: 1,226
Nov 22, 2024 4:29:32 GMT
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Post by Glenn Robinson on May 4, 2015 3:42:11 GMT
Oh JR...
Keep talking your smack. Whenever you don't get your way you rage quit only to come back a few days later.
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Post by Alex English on May 7, 2015 19:12:43 GMT
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Post by Charles Barkley on May 7, 2015 19:22:37 GMT
The injury system needs to be pro-rated for playoff injuries. That's what I am pushing for next year. Basically, Player X misses Y time, Player X misses games =Y. Obviously we can't do this with every single bump, which is why we put a limit on it. Like James said, if a player is out for 3 weeks, then he goes on the IR in here and misses atleast 3 weeks plus the time the player missed IRL after 3 weeks. I dont know if that sounds complicated or not, but in my head its pretty simple.
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Post by Ian Noble on May 7, 2015 20:22:10 GMT
Fractures surely mean lengthy downtime but all the reports only say "questionable for Game 3", so we'll see if he plays Game 3 and what the injury lists say then. |
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Post by Charles Barkley on May 8, 2015 18:35:33 GMT
Fractures surely mean lengthy downtime but all the reports only say "questionable for Game 3", so we'll see if he plays Game 3 and what the injury lists say then. Hypothetical, Wall doesn't play the rest of the series, Wizards lose. Wall undergoes surgery, is he on IR? Wizards lose series, Wall doesn't play, Wall doesn't have surgery, does he go on IR? Wizards win series, Wall doesn't play throughout, does he go on IR? The dude on ESPN said the fractures were non-displaced. I have had those before, not in my hand and wrist and 5 at once though, surgery isn't required to heal the bones because they haven't moved. Now, he could try to gut it out a game or two, take a hit, and the bones that are fractured become displaced, and then surgery is needed. I didn't see how he hurt his hand, was he stepped on? Did he fall on it wrong? Fractures in your wrist/hand, for example the bone on the outside of your wrist that leads to your thumb has a main blood vessel around it that feeds blood to your hand and thumb, if the injury goes untreated long enough, which it won't in this case, your bone can die via not having nutrients because the blood vessel can become displaced or even cut open inside the wrist. I know this because my brother had a 1.5 inch screw placed in his wrist/hand along the bone and it takes an extremely long amount of time to heal on its own without surgery, the time they gave my brother was 3-4 months and this is because it is an extremely sensitive area. Anyways, the place where Wall has his fractures is very important on speculating if he will or will not play. |
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JR Wiles
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Post by JR Wiles on May 8, 2015 18:41:47 GMT
Fractures surely mean lengthy downtime but all the reports only say "questionable for Game 3", so we'll see if he plays Game 3 and what the injury lists say then. Hypothetical, Wall doesn't play the rest of the series, Wizards lose. Wall undergoes surgery, is he on IR? Wizards lose series, Wall doesn't play, Wall doesn't have surgery, does he go on IR? Wizards win series, Wall doesn't play throughout, does he go on IR? The dude on ESPN said the fractures were non-displaced. I have had those before, not in my hand and wrist and 5 at once though, surgery isn't required to heal the bones because they haven't moved. Now, he could try to gut it out a game or two, take a hit, and the bones that are fractured become displaced, and then surgery is needed. I didn't see how he hurt his hand, was he stepped on? Did he fall on it wrong? Fractures in your wrist/hand, for example the bone on the outside of your wrist that leads to your thumb has a main blood vessel around it that feeds blood to your hand and thumb, if the injury goes untreated long enough, which it won't in this case, your bone can die via not having nutrients because the blood vessel can become displaced or even cut open inside the wrist. I know this because my brother had a 1.5 inch screw placed in his wrist/hand along the bone and it takes an extremely long amount of time to heal on its own without surgery, the time they gave my brother was 3-4 months and this is because it is an extremely sensitive area. Anyways, the place where Wall has his fractures is very important on speculating if he will or will not play. He will play in game 3. He's a warrior. Until we see if he does or that he has scheduled or had surgery.. None of this matters. |
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JR Wiles
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Post by JR Wiles on May 8, 2015 18:53:07 GMT
Hypothetical, Wall doesn't play the rest of the series, Wizards lose. Wall undergoes surgery, is he on IR? Wizards lose series, Wall doesn't play, Wall doesn't have surgery, does he go on IR? Wizards win series, Wall doesn't play throughout, does he go on IR? The dude on ESPN said the fractures were non-displaced. I have had those before, not in my hand and wrist and 5 at once though, surgery isn't required to heal the bones because they haven't moved. Now, he could try to gut it out a game or two, take a hit, and the bones that are fractured become displaced, and then surgery is needed. I didn't see how he hurt his hand, was he stepped on? Did he fall on it wrong? Fractures in your wrist/hand, for example the bone on the outside of your wrist that leads to your thumb has a main blood vessel around it that feeds blood to your hand and thumb, if the injury goes untreated long enough, which it won't in this case, your bone can die via not having nutrients because the blood vessel can become displaced or even cut open inside the wrist. I know this because my brother had a 1.5 inch screw placed in his wrist/hand along the bone and it takes an extremely long amount of time to heal on its own without surgery, the time they gave my brother was 3-4 months and this is because it is an extremely sensitive area. Anyways, the place where Wall has his fractures is very important on speculating if he will or will not play. He will play in game 3. He's a warrior. Until we see if he does or that he has scheduled or had surgery.. None of this matters. John Wall just updated the league that the swelling has gone down , but he's still unsure of playing in this series. |
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JR Wiles
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Post by JR Wiles on May 8, 2015 19:06:41 GMT
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Post by Charles Barkley on May 9, 2015 3:08:43 GMT
Just quoting this instead of quoting the big long paragraph. You said none of what I said matters, which is why I called them hypotheticals. The questions I asked could likely become real questions the league will have to address, at that time, the answers to those questions should be interesting. Just because someone is tough doesn't mean you can play through things. Gutting it out when you have a mild ankle sprain or a pulled hammy is one thing, but playing through multiple hand fractures (in the sport of basketball where your hands are very important), especially displaced fractures, can derail a career. There's so many nerve endings in your hand, as well as your foot. Imagine shooting a basketball, or dribbling or passing, when you don't have a lot of feeling in your hand. That is a serious situation that posses a risk if Wall were to undergo surgery. I hope Wall does come back to play, I really enjoy seeing him on the court and I think the Wiz are a solid team. But at the same time, I think we need to think about what could happen in the very near future with John Wall. Also, regarding the Holiday and Pondexter injuries, it sounds like Pondexter had elected surgery to repair some cartilage in his knees, something players play through all the time. And, well, the Holiday situation is what it is. He had another surgery to remove the screw stabilizing the rod that was already in place in his tibia. To me, from this article www.nola.com/pelicans/index.ssf/2015/05/jrue_holiday_undergoes_surgery.html it sounds like Holiday elected to have the surgery to remove the screw. But it can be interpreted in another way as well. The whole Holiday situation was botched from the get-go due to the NBA injury guidelines. |
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JR Wiles
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Post by JR Wiles on May 19, 2015 1:00:01 GMT
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Post by Charles Barkley on May 23, 2015 22:23:32 GMT
Kyle Korver needs added, out for remainder of playoffs.
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Post by Bryan Colangelo on May 24, 2015 1:10:08 GMT
Kyle Korver needs added, out for remainder of playoffs. only thing I have to question is that, Korver injury is an ankle sprain. I haven't read reports he needs surgery or anything. If this was regular season he would be back in maybe 3 - 4 weeks? idk Ian Noble how you are going to treat this but I thought if a player is out with a significant injury that requires surgery, he will be place on this list. I wouldn't really say an ankle sprain is significant. |
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Post by Charles Barkley on May 24, 2015 2:35:42 GMT
Kyle Korver needs added, out for remainder of playoffs. only thing I have to question is that, Korver injury is an ankle sprain. I haven't read reports he needs surgery or anything. If this was regular season he would be back in maybe 3 - 4 weeks? idk Ian Noble how you are going to treat this but I thought if a player is out with a significant injury that requires surgery, he will be place on this list. I wouldn't really say an ankle sprain is significant. I think when we talked about Kevin Love, something was said like, if a player gets hurt, in game, and then is ruled out for the post season, they would go on IR in here. |
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on May 24, 2015 2:57:54 GMT
Kyle Korver out for playoffs.
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Deleted
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Nov 30, 2024 8:53:45 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2015 3:00:25 GMT
Come on guys this isn't rocket science there's a whole thread in the rules section:
"Players injured during the Playoffs will also have the severity of their injuries checked and if the recovery time of a player's injury would usually require them to miss 6 weeks of play they will be added to the injury list."
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on May 24, 2015 3:05:12 GMT
Come on guys this isn't rocket science there's a whole thread in the rules section: "Players injured during the Playoffs will also have the severity of their injuries checked and if the recovery time of a player's injury would usually require them to miss 6 weeks of play they will be added to the injury list." Nah, if he didn't want to lose Korver he should have supported injuries during the RL playoffs not counting. Because no one seemed to care players are going to start falling off. We have no idea how severe the injury could have been because the Hawks are going to get swept. |
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