|
|
Post by Alex English on May 16, 2020 1:50:27 GMT
Yeah I think a salary floor wouldn't work at all. Bench warmers would just get overpaid. Not really, if the rule state that any team cannot be under a percentage of the cap from the moment we transition to a new season. And that if the team is under that floor, he will be forced to sign random players to 2-years contract just to meet that floor. Right, how would that stop tanking? If I want to be awful and get a top pick, why can't I just overpay low rated players to get to the floor? Why can't I just let the random player be signed to my team? Forcing teams to have a higher salary doesn't mean those teams will get better. |
|
|
|
Post by George Gervin on May 16, 2020 2:07:29 GMT
Not really, if the rule state that any team cannot be under a percentage of the cap from the moment we transition to a new season. And that if the team is under that floor, he will be forced to sign random players to 2-years contract just to meet that floor. Right, how would that stop tanking? If I want to be awful and get a top pick, why can't I just overpay low rated players to get to the floor? Why can't I just let the random player be signed to my team? Forcing teams to have a higher salary doesn't mean those teams will get better. ^this. You can’t compel team performance— I mean Chicago and Houston this season are great examples. They should be better record wise, but are getting sim fucked and they have some of the League’s highest salaries. |
|
|
|
Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on May 16, 2020 3:16:20 GMT
Not really, if the rule state that any team cannot be under a percentage of the cap from the moment we transition to a new season. And that if the team is under that floor, he will be forced to sign random players to 2-years contract just to meet that floor. Right, how would that stop tanking? If I want to be awful and get a top pick, why can't I just overpay low rated players to get to the floor? Why can't I just let the random player be signed to my team? Forcing teams to have a higher salary doesn't mean those teams will get better. It will not. But it will still add another hurdle to anyone who wants to just wreck a team and do what everyone is doing. Then, they can have those random players occupying those cap space instead of just being an open space that they can offer to those who are contending. |
|
Larry Bird
 Indiana Pacers
Starter
Posts: 1,672
Mar 5, 2024 13:29:26 GMT
|
Post by Larry Bird on May 16, 2020 4:00:34 GMT
There are still only 2 teams below $90 mil.
One has some solid young players.
|
|
|
|
Post by Tom Izzo on May 16, 2020 7:02:15 GMT
I've been very vocal against the 2k strategy for a long time now. The league rewards years of unrealistic tanking, stockpiling draft picks, and exploiting 5 year rookie contracts. To some, that's called "fiscal responsibility" aka suck hard for 2-3 years, get cheap contracts, then cash that in in a trade for a superstar.
I'm pretty against the 2k strategy that's so popular here because it's certainly unrealistic and the one time a team tried to do it, the GM was fired and essentially banned by the NBA. He popularized tanking, because he got widespread fan buy in. A team who is clearly anti-competition usually faces the wrath of fans, media, and owners. He had media and fan buy in and that's dangerous for a league. Because then, literally, why not just do that across the whole league? It'd be absolutely terrible for the real NBA as a business model. You have to generate some level of attempted competition.
Anyway, the reason I do not think we should follow the NBA (should they drastically reduce their salary cap) is that the D5 rich stand to gain the most. I'm talking about the teams that have exploited the 2k strategy. The D5 rich are the teams that stand on the cusp of competitiveness while having multiple stars under 25 on rookie contracts.
I think the best thing to do is just keep the cap the same and move forward.
|
|
|
|
Post by Alex English on May 16, 2020 8:06:47 GMT
I've been very vocal against the 2k strategy for a long time now. The league rewards years of unrealistic tanking, stockpiling draft picks, and exploiting 5 year rookie contracts. To some, that's called "fiscal responsibility" aka suck hard for 2-3 years, get cheap contracts, then cash that in in a trade for a superstar. I'm pretty against the 2k strategy that's so popular here because it's certainly unrealistic and the one time a team tried to do it, the GM was fired and essentially banned by the NBA. He popularized tanking, because he got widespread fan buy in. A team who is clearly anti-competition usually faces the wrath of fans, media, and owners. He had media and fan buy in and that's dangerous for a league. Because then, literally, why not just do that across the whole league? It'd be absolutely terrible for the real NBA as a business model. You have to generate some level of attempted competition. Anyway, the reason I do not think we should follow the NBA (should they drastically reduce their salary cap) is that the D5 rich stand to gain the most. I'm talking about the teams that have exploited the 2k strategy. The D5 rich are the teams that stand on the cusp of competitiveness while having multiple stars under 25 on rookie contracts. I think the best thing to do is just keep the cap the same and move forward. Tanking has been part of the NBA for decades. "Trust the process" wasn't the one time a team tried to do it, Sam Hinkie was just up front about it. He didn't come up with the idea though. One of the episodes of The Last Dance is about the 1986 Bulls restricting MJ's minutes in the hopes of missing the playoffs and getting a better draft pick. It will continue to exist so long as a reverse order draft exists too, even with a lottery. There isn't a more effective strategy to get elite talent on your team. |
|
|
|
Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on May 16, 2020 8:14:58 GMT
I've been very vocal against the 2k strategy for a long time now. The league rewards years of unrealistic tanking, stockpiling draft picks, and exploiting 5 year rookie contracts. To some, that's called "fiscal responsibility" aka suck hard for 2-3 years, get cheap contracts, then cash that in in a trade for a superstar. I'm pretty against the 2k strategy that's so popular here because it's certainly unrealistic and the one time a team tried to do it, the GM was fired and essentially banned by the NBA. He popularized tanking, because he got widespread fan buy in. A team who is clearly anti-competition usually faces the wrath of fans, media, and owners. He had media and fan buy in and that's dangerous for a league. Because then, literally, why not just do that across the whole league? It'd be absolutely terrible for the real NBA as a business model. You have to generate some level of attempted competition. Anyway, the reason I do not think we should follow the NBA (should they drastically reduce their salary cap) is that the D5 rich stand to gain the most. I'm talking about the teams that have exploited the 2k strategy. The D5 rich are the teams that stand on the cusp of competitiveness while having multiple stars under 25 on rookie contracts. I think the best thing to do is just keep the cap the same and move forward. Tanking has been part of the NBA for decades. "Trust the process" wasn't the one time a team tried to do it, Sam Hinkie was just up front about it. He didn't come up with the idea though. One of the episodes of The Last Dance is about the 1986 Bulls restricting MJ's minutes in the hopes of missing the playoffs and getting a better draft pick. It will continue to exist so long as a reverse order draft exists too, even with a lottery. There isn't a more effective strategy to get elite talent on your team. We are not talking about that "tanking" Alex. We are talking about the more than 3 years SUCKED HARD process that several franchises here have been doing for more than 4 seasons now. |
|
|
|
Post by Ian Noble on May 16, 2020 8:52:25 GMT
For the sake of saving everyone's time in this thread: I'm never implementing a salary floor. It's 100% ineffective at achieving its goals here anyway. You can save the time you would've spent replying about it here on something with value, lol.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ian Noble on May 16, 2020 9:00:25 GMT
Some changes to the original thread based on discussions so far in the quote below. Basically we'll wait until the NBA makes a decision on the upcoming Salary Cap and start of real-life Off Season Free Agency before we move forward on those, unless it gets as late as October/November in which case we could revisit everything with a view to starting 2020/21 in December like usual. Off Season 2020 and Covid-192020/21 Salary Cap Announced by NBAOff Season Free Agency Start Date - although likely tied to whatever the real NBA's off season start date will be, this could be brought forward or back of the real NBA's date once announced.
Team Options - GMs may begin picking up Team Options
Bird Rights - GMs may begin claiming Bird Rights Note: no changes to when the Playoffs are going to happen. I can see the arguments for and against this and I just don't see enough against it. |
|
|
|
Post by Andrei Kirilenko on May 16, 2020 18:48:27 GMT
If we aren’t willing to delay our playoffs then Ben Simmons needs to go back on the IR. The most recent updates say that Elton Brand is “optimistic” that Simmons would return if the league were to resume later in the year. Brett Brown said “it could be a little bit of a silver lining of this pandemic [for the Sixers], being able to get somebody as important as Ben back into our team” which implies that Simmons would have been out for the season if not for the delay. It seems to me that Simmons’ situation is no different than Kyrie’s. He was likely out for the season but will have a chance to return due to the delay.
I am not blaming or accusing Ian here for brining Simmons back, the reports we had a few weeks ago said he was closer to returning. However, the new reports are suggesting otherwise, and without any real medical update, I think it’s hard to justify bringing someone like Simmons back but not someone like KAT.
|
|
|
|
Post by Tom Izzo on May 16, 2020 19:51:43 GMT
Agreed with Josh. I was never a fan of bringing him back in the first place but if we start to speculate then it's unfair to other injured players
|
|
Billy King
Former Jazz and Knicks GM
Rookie
Posts: 248 
|
Post by Billy King on May 17, 2020 4:27:44 GMT
lol we brought simmons back? common just bring them back if they play stop with the wishy washy stuff
|
|
|
|
Post by Alex English on May 17, 2020 17:08:06 GMT
It's been 12 weeks since Ben Simmons last played and it's not clear that he'd be able to play today if the season resumed.
There was less justification for Siakam when he was put on the injured list, who also only missed 4 weeks in total so he shouldn't have been added at all.
Simmons should not be playing.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ian Noble on May 17, 2020 19:46:14 GMT
Funny how nobody cares that Jusuf Nurkic was also returned from injury. Just focus on the 1st Seed.
I'll put Simmons on the IR.
|
|
Billy King
Former Jazz and Knicks GM
Rookie
Posts: 248
|
Post by Billy King on May 17, 2020 20:28:37 GMT
Funny how nobody cares that Jusuf Nurkic was also returned from injury. Just focus on the 1st Seed. I'll put Simmons on the IR. WRONG
I'm triply triggered by this one
|
|
|
|
Post by James Kay on May 17, 2020 20:38:29 GMT
Funny how nobody cares that Jusuf Nurkic was also returned from injury. Just focus on the 1st Seed. I'll put Simmons on the IR. I care! I pointed this out lol. He should not be back tbh, he hasn't played a game either. |
|
|
|
Post by Ian Noble on May 17, 2020 21:42:11 GMT
Jay Z just to make you aware, there is popular pressure here that says Nurkic (and Ben Simmons) should now be placed on the Injury List because the systems we implemented 3 months ago are apparently now not OK. I'm still against this change, personally.
|
|
|
|
Post by Andrei Kirilenko on May 17, 2020 22:04:07 GMT
Just to clarify, I am not advocating any sort of change from the rule we had in place. I am just pointing out that evidence of Ben Simmons being fit to play at this point in time is not conclusive, and we have no way of making some sort of judgement on his condition ourselves. Nurkic, on the other hand, was scheduled to debut March 15 which seems like solid evidence of being fit to play. My original suggestion was delaying the D5 playoffs until the real life playoffs so that we can get these questions correct. We won't need to speculate on who is healthy or not healthy because we will see who actually laces up. Even though Ben Simmons will likely play if they resume in August/September, we can't bring him back right now without conclusive evidence. |
|
|
|
Post by Ian Noble on May 17, 2020 22:29:12 GMT
|
|
Billy King
Former Jazz and Knicks GM
Rookie
Posts: 248
|
Post by Billy King on May 17, 2020 23:20:53 GMT
yeah suspend the season and see if they actually come back
|
|
|
|
Post by Alex English on May 17, 2020 23:29:13 GMT
[Elton] Brand did add that he’d be ready to play whenever the season does resume. “I’m very optimistic he’ll be ready to play if and when we’re given that green light to resume,” he finished. “When I FaceTime him during his workouts, during his treatment and I see him I’d be highly encouraged that his ramp-up would be different,” the general manager added on Simmons. “We took our time, we’ve been methodical and thoughtful about his recovery and rehab just to make sure, because we weren’t in a rush. It’s hard to speculate, but he’s been working hard, and I know he’d be closer or ready.” I'm not really sure we read this the same way. Specifically this bit: That was said on May 5th, more than 10 weeks after his injury, and it still wasn't conclusive that he'd be back. I can see the argument in favour, I don't think it's that big a deal if he plays, but if we're going with the plan that things are based on when the shutdown started unless there is conclusive evidence for something else, that doesn't quite cut it in my opinion. |
|
|
|
Post by Jay Z on May 18, 2020 0:08:59 GMT
"Terry Stotts said that no decision has been made yet as to how many minutes Jusuf Nurkic (leg) will play in his expected return to the court on Sunday vs. the Rockets", headline quote from Nurkic's rotoworld profile. I think he should be in, but I'm not going to make a fuss about it if the rules say he's out. Looks like a decision has been made already, but I think we should postpone. |
|
|
|
Post by Andrei Kirilenko on May 18, 2020 13:34:13 GMT
Ian Noble I don't want to speak for the anyone else here, but just want to say that if you feel that there is enough evidence to bring Simmons back then we are going to support your decision in bringing him back. I can imagine how tough it is being both the league commissioner and also the GM of the top seed, you are inherently put into a contradictory position of both needing to be an advocate for your own team and also being the final decision-maker for the entire league. At the end of the day, we all trust in your decisions as a commissioner completely and have faith that you are acting in fairness. You've created the best sim league in the world and it's only fun if you yourself can be a participant of that league as well, especially after such a long rebuild and finally being competitive again after several years. Just do what you think is right and either way we will have your back 
|
|
|
|
Post by Ian Noble on May 18, 2020 16:02:26 GMT
I'm not really sure we read this the same way. Specifically this bit: That was said on May 5th, more than 10 weeks after his injury, and it still wasn't conclusive that he'd be back. I can see the argument in favour, I don't think it's that big a deal if he plays, but if we're going with the plan that things are based on when the shutdown started unless there is conclusive evidence for something else, that doesn't quite cut it in my opinion. I think the problem is interpreting what Elton Brand says in that quote! It's quite ambiguous. It's this sentence that indicates to me, if the season was continuing and the Sixers *were in more of a rush*, Simmons would be back already. Add to that an article from a month ago * saying: I mean it doesn't get more conclusive than words like that surely. I get that there's been recent news articles about how much pain Simmons was in *when the injury happened* back in February, but that was back in February.
Further analysis of Elton Brand's words: This sentence sort of means nothing at all - obviously Simmons would be "closer", because time has literally passed, any player would be "closer". Does the inclusion of the word "closer" mean there's doubt Simmons would be ready by now, if the season continued as normal? Or is this just a generic catch-all sentence from Elton Brand where he's not particularly worried about the exact words he's using? Is Elton Brand saying that Ben Simmons would be ready if the season started today? Or if the season resumed at a later point in the year? I'm reading this to mean: "When the NBA gives the green light to the teams, Ben Simmons will be ready to play". But you could interpret it as: "When the Sixers medical staff gives the green light to Ben Simmons, he will be ready to play."
Ian Noble I don't want to speak for the anyone else here, but just want to say that if you feel that there is enough evidence to bring Simmons back then we are going to support your decision in bringing him back. I can imagine how tough it is being both the league commissioner and also the GM of the top seed, you are inherently put into a contradictory position of both needing to be an advocate for your own team and also being the final decision-maker for the entire league. At the end of the day, we all trust in your decisions as a commissioner completely and have faith that you are acting in fairness. You've created the best sim league in the world and it's only fun if you yourself can be a participant of that league as well, especially after such a long rebuild and finally being competitive again after several years. Just do what you think is right and either way we will have your back Thanks Josh. I personally do not feel there would be an asterisk next to my name if I win anything, but it matters to me whether other GMs disagree. |
|
Amare Stoudemire
 Sacramento Kings
Starter
Posts: 2,416
|
Post by Amare Stoudemire on May 18, 2020 16:26:12 GMT
Their should be 1 GM that is in charge of this to make rulings with the injuries!
I nominate myself since I did alot of this during the year and I don't mind doing it.
|
|
Amare Stoudemire
Sacramento Kings
Starter
Posts: 2,416
|
Post by Amare Stoudemire on May 18, 2020 17:14:11 GMT
Their should be 1 GM that is in charge of this to make rulings with the injuries! I nominate myself since I did alot of this during the year and I don't mind doing it. I did most of the injury updates throughout the year, I have the time and don't mind. This is way I'll make the updates and if we ever run into a situation where someone challenges the update, the pa board can vote between each other kinda like on player options, and that will decide it. Like in this situation, I would have not brought back Ben Simmons. He was brought back premature and was said to be close to ready, but in all honesty he's just now being labeled as PROBABLY being ready But irl right now they would be well into the playoffs so that should make him ineligible for are playoffs if he came back right now bc we kept simming the season so we should proceed with that mind set! As far as jusuf nurkic, their was clear evidence he would be playing in the next blazers game if not for the shut-down so I would allow him back Just my thoughts |
|
|
|
Post by Jerry West on May 18, 2020 17:30:01 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by George Gervin on May 18, 2020 17:59:10 GMT
Not sure if anyone reads the Athletic, but John Hollinger has a solid piece up on the cap that the likeliest scenario based on discussions is to increase player salary escrowed to 30% from 10%, set the cap at $109 MM and smooth it over the next three seasons (so through 2022).
Otherwise, according to his piece, the League is projecting with no cap smoothing that 25 of 30 teams would be deep in the luxury tax and player max contracts could be slashed by a full 25%. An example used was Siakim’s max he signed last October would be just $80 MM as opposed to the $116 MM he signed it for to ensure it’s compliant with the percentage of cap requirements for max deals. He also intimated the NBAPA is getting pressure not to repeat 2016 by screwing one FA class at the expense of a cap drop then spike.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jerry West on May 18, 2020 18:09:52 GMT
Also I think the way we handle injuries is good as it is, it's better if everyone can point out when a player's been or returned than just one person.
|
|
|
|
Post by George Gervin on May 25, 2020 16:18:31 GMT
Some NBA return news via the most recent Bill Simmons Podcast (Ryen Russilo also on this episode with the news) where multiple sources have relayed to him the discussed dates of return: - “Training Camp” start: Week of June 15
- League restart date: July 26
- Final Playoff game (all would be Best of 7 series): September 20
- 2020 Draft: September 25
- Free Agency and new League Year starts: October 1
Not quite sure I buy they will be able to do Best of 7 each round with no hiccups, but Simmons intimated that the League’s position was to not “delegitimize the 2020 champ through a gimmick playoff structure.”
|
|
Denver Nuggets
San Antonio Spurs
Cleveland Cavaliers
Houston Rockets
Boston Celtics
Brooklyn Nets
Charlotte Hornets
Atlanta Hawks
Portland Trailblazers
