Spike Lee
Former Knicks GM
Sophomore
Posts: 366
Sept 15, 2018 22:53:48 GMT
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Post by Spike Lee on Jul 9, 2016 0:25:00 GMT
im not saying that kawhi to the Bulls had no merit, Alex. and you're probably right there would be a lengthy discussion about where to send kawhi if all of the 'do better' crowd had a vote.
except thats not the reason why most of us are upset. the problem is that the GMs send offers and receive no feedback. the problem is that this controversial signing was dependent on butler, who didn't receieve all the attention it should have. the problem is that we have a PA who publicly said that they weren't gonna sign him to that team.
in that sense, its not hard. I know being a PA isn't easy, ive done it before in 720. but I dont believe it's unreasonable to ask for better than whatever this is.
listen, I don't even have a horse in the race. Im offering my least biased opinion here. I simply want this league to succeed and this signing clearly goes against that goal as it was a decision that could have tons of negative consequences for a long time.
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Spike Lee
Former Knicks GM
Sophomore
Posts: 366
Sept 15, 2018 22:53:48 GMT
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Post by Spike Lee on Jul 9, 2016 0:28:36 GMT
If GMs are expected to put in all this time to craft the most thought out, thorough offer sheet dance, sing, and send porn pictures to even be considered, PAs should be held to the same standard.
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Post by Blake Bowman on Jul 9, 2016 6:32:55 GMT
If GMs are expected to put in all this time to craft the most thought out, thorough offer sheet dance, sing, and send porn pictures to even be considered, PAs should be held to the same standard. This is the most subtle way anyone could have said, "Hey, Jeremiah, please make some pornog pics for league distribution." I knew pretty early on my chances were slim, and wasn't shocked at all when Boston said we were the first two teams out. So I don't have a horse in this race either. I can see each of the opinions expressed in this thread and I think there are some valid points from every side of the spectrum. I think the ways in which these points have been expressed, at times, may be a little aggressive, leading to some discontent between the student sides. It's like the D5's version of BlackLivesMatter, with pretty obvious differences; in a way, separating sides that may otherwise see ways to fix a problem together, and some people may have no problem with it, and other people like myself look at it from the outside as an unfortunate situation in which obviously tension will build.. I don't know, wanted to voice my opinion, or what I have of one. I don't think the signing in itself was bad, the timing maybe, but again, Kevin Durant is probably the best example of something like this happening in real life and the situations weren't even that similar considering all things. #ClothTalk #MajorKey
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 27, 2024 14:19:57 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2016 12:23:57 GMT
If GMs are expected to put in all this time to craft the most thought out, thorough offer sheet dance, sing, and send porn pictures to even be considered, PAs should be held to the same standard. This is the most subtle way anyone could have said, "Hey, Jeremiah, please make some pornog pics for league distribution." I knew pretty early on my chances were slim, and wasn't shocked at all when Boston said we were the first two teams out. So I don't have a horse in this race either. I can see each of the opinions expressed in this thread and I think there are some valid points from every side of the spectrum. I think the ways in which these points have been expressed, at times, may be a little aggressive, leading to some discontent between the student sides. It's like the D5's version of BlackLivesMatter, with pretty obvious differences; in a way, separating sides that may otherwise see ways to fix a problem together, and some people may have no problem with it, and other people like myself look at it from the outside as an unfortunate situation in which obviously tension will build.. I don't know, wanted to voice my opinion, or what I have of one. I don't think the signing in itself was bad, the timing maybe, but again, Kevin Durant is probably the best example of something like this happening in real life and the situations weren't even that similar considering all things. #ClothTalk #MajorKey
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Post by Ian Noble on Jul 9, 2016 13:11:59 GMT
I agree with the angry voices in this thread that Jimmy Butler's negotiations were not well handled and that is as much my fault as Jeremiah's. I did not properly read the Jimmy Butler thread in Jeremiah's OSFA Board, I did not realise there we no negotiations taking place, in this respect I failed in my Overseer role.
To fix this I am now representing Jimmy Butler and I'm negotiating and it's not a forgone conclusion that he re-signs.
Most importantly for this thread however is that Jimmy Butler's negotiations did not really affect this Kawhi Leonard signing. I didn't realise the problem with Jimmy Butler's negotiations until after Kawhi Leonard signed, in fact probably because Kawhi Leonard took up so much of my time I didn't properly read Jimmy Butler's negotiations. Chris Mullin and Alex English had no knowledge of the Jimmy Butler negotiations at all. All three of us also settled on the Bulls as Kawhi Leonard's destination.
People are also angry that Kawhi Leonard signed with the Bulls despite them technically having nobody under contract, but dedication is much more important here at D5 than in real life when it comes to big free agent decisions, ironically it takes a lack of effort on Dan Majerle's level before a big-name player is likely to leave, I think it's fair enough that we assumed a high-character player like Kawhi Leonard would entice long-term Bulls players to re-sign.
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Post by JR Wiles on Jul 9, 2016 13:35:41 GMT
I personally and honestly believe that Dan had a slim shot at re-signing Kawhi to begin with. The sad part is Dan has been with the league and although he is not the most active, he is still a vet gm and still here. I agree that Ian has chosen a very intelligent group of guys to help with his league. I feel though at times, that is something that hurts the rest of the league. These guys don't get enough credit. They do a lot for nothing but for the love of the game. Having such help though leads to these guys thinking they know best and they honestly believe they make the best decisions. Being an agent or helping in the league is tough. If you choose- choose to help..you need to be ready to make mistakes and admit to it at times. You need to lose once in a while. You need to take the bad with the good and not use the power of your position to fight your battles. Other than intelligence I personally don't get how help is chosen. There are many GMs that could help and be honest. Probably better than those helping at times or over certain situations. Dan didn't put enough effort into getting his star player back. We all see this. What is mandatory though? Some people are smart and are just good at talking and writing. Some can make and use their computers to show stats in graphs, etc. Does this mean they are more committed to their player or that the player should sign over a gm that does not have as good as argument? There is a guideline that helps. We see that. We can use that in our offer. How about we all use the same format and guideline!! This will make things more fair to everyone!! Of course that would be the fairest way. But would everyone be okay with that and not going overboard with it. If we all used the same guideline , it would make the decision that much easier for a player agent. It would keep an agent from liking one gms pitch because of the way it looks or how much is written. Maybe this is a bad idea but sometimes keeping things in a guideline or by rule is the best way. Not only that people are different. Some smarter or better at different things.
We want this league the best we can make it. I think its the best around. I do feel things are unfair at times, but that's normal. Ian wants all the work he put into the league to not be thrown away over ignorance. I have gone too far myself at times. I have been on the back end getting screwed. It happens! But I am still here and working to make my team the best it can be. I want to prove people wrong!! It may or may not happen but I am here to voice my opinion and to try and make the league fair as much as I can.
We love the game. The problem is that we are just normal people putting hours into something we enjoy. If it was real and we were using real money, everything would be done by the book. Rules and guidelines would be no different for Ian as it is for myself or the next guy. Its not real. We can't make real presentations to FAs. We can't sub our guys in and out when we want. Its not that we wouldn't want to but it's that we can't and its just not that real of a league.
So let's not let the best presentation or gm with the most power or friends or anything of such to factor in or determine how we decide on FA, trades, or any other decisions. Let's not hold grudges or let past situations factor in when making decisions that will effect this awesome ass league.
If we make a choice or decision and if its right or wrong... Let's as a league not be afraid of making league changes. If you make a mistake ok. If so and its a problem...vote as a league.
I get that Dan was not top notch on his bid but if the league was current with real life rules... And if he was a restricted player with BRs...Dan could keep his core star and future without having to be the best at offering a contract. He should not have to in my opinion in this case. If a player is in FA without BRs...it would be different. But as I said before we could have a guideline...just like we are suppose to have when posting our depth charts, etc.
Well best of luck to Dan and Chicago and everyone else in FA. We all want the best.. If you want it make the moves to show it!!
Go SA Spurs--Playoff Bound and ready to contend!!
Thanks
JR Wiles-Spurs GM
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jul 9, 2016 14:35:40 GMT
JR I agree with a fair amount of that. Really good post.
I personally view the offers, as a PA, much like you are suggesting. I spell it out like this: Did you do enough, or not. "Enough" isn't a 12 page report with graphs and photoshop work.
But, "enough" involves something that looks like it took at least 5-10 minutes of thought and gives a good argument for your team and even possibly against some other teams.
So, the people that go above and beyond, for me as a PA, it's more about that being fun for them. They don't get bonus points for flashiness, or for hours spent working on offers. The only advantage they can get, from me, is that they might, just maybe, bring up a point of discussion that I wouldn't have thought of myself. But I know I personally take this very seriously so I often will think about a lot of this stuff too. But yea, that's the only possible advantage to huge offers,at least for me.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Jul 9, 2016 14:41:33 GMT
I do want to point out that Jimmy Butler had only 3-4 offers in the first 2 days compared to like 10 for Kawhi. It seemed like a slam dunk for Butler to return after that. I flat out told everyone hey half the league is making offers on Kawhi. No one thinks to increase their odds and try offering for other players instead?
LeBron had 3 offers the first 2 days. He wasn't even a bird rights guy and by all rights would have been 10 times easier to sign.
Durant had 1 or 2 offers for several days. This is Kevin fucking Durant. Because it lined up with real life FA had Charlotte put in an offer early on and then KD leaves for a team slightly better, how could we argue he doesn't leave for Charlotte in D5.
BUT his offer from OKC was the strongest for a whole week. Is it fair to ignore that most teams in the league just flat out ignored an MVP?
--------
I only had time to offer for 1 player this offseason. I didn't get them cause I pulled out last minute. But I know my team is a lower team, maybe I increase my odds by sending that first big contract to a guy like Tobias Harris.
The NBA is about incremental improvements towards long term success. Its very hard to make drastic improvements via FA, just ask LA and Boston the past 2-3 years (until Horford). It happens once or twice (in a stacked FA class) year in real life.
Targeting a guy who is good knowing everyone is trying for 1 player might be a way to slightly improve your team making it more attractive the next season.
We already saw it this season in D5 Milsap getting flat out disrespected with 1 offer.
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Post by JR Wiles on Jul 9, 2016 15:50:51 GMT
I do want to point out that Jimmy Butler had only 3-4 offers in the first 2 days compared to like 10 for Kawhi. It seemed like a slam dunk for Butler to return after that. I flat out told everyone hey half the league is making offers on Kawhi. No one thinks to increase their odds and try offering for other players instead? LeBron had 3 offers the first 2 days. He wasn't even a bird rights guy and by all rights would have been 10 times easier to sign. Durant had 1 or 2 offers for several days. This is Kevin fucking Durant. Because it lined up with real life FA had Charlotte put in an offer early on and then KD leaves for a team slightly better, how could we argue he doesn't leave for Charlotte in D5. BUT his offer from OKC was the strongest for a whole week. Is it fair to ignore that most teams in the league just flat out ignored an MVP? -------- I only had time to offer for 1 player this offseason. I didn't get them cause I pulled out last minute. But I know my team is a lower team, maybe I increase my odds by sending that first big contract to a guy like Tobias Harris. The NBA is about incremental improvements towards long term success. Its very hard to make drastic improvements via FA, just ask LA and Boston the past 2-3 years (until Horford). It happens once or twice (in a stacked FA class) year in real life. Targeting a guy who is good knowing everyone is trying for 1 player might be a way to slightly improve your team making it more attractive the next season. We already saw it this season in D5 Milsap getting flat out disrespected with 1 offer. ************ Millsap had a few offers thank you and I am the one that traded for him with the hopes to resign him in FA. We sacraficed the players and picks and future to get him. Other FAs IRL make decisions just the same. $20+ million is a nice payday for most players. It still is. Just because the leagues cap changes does not to me mean the value of guys go up. Not only that Paul signed leaving cap to sign another FA. His goal and our goal is to win. There are good people still in the world. Not greedy. Ask DWade. And it does not matter how many offers Butler and Leonard were getting. That fact is...and its a FACT...the Bulls had no talent and Butler was not yet signed.. And from that reason we argue with you that Leonard should not have signed there. Maybe not with the Suns but with a better team with a chance to contend or build to contend. And its not the agents job or anyone else's job to make an offer to a FA. You think we offered to Lebron? Nope!! We did offer to several players though and so far got 1 player.. Our FA. Admit it was a stupid call And let's all just move on . This is getting no where. If there's no possibility of him being moved.. Then let's just b done. But don't forget CP3 was denied by the league...its not impossible!!
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Post by Charles Barkley on Jul 9, 2016 21:45:22 GMT
It isn't the commissioner's job to look into something when a GM brings it up in a very important time? Had Ian looked at the replies like he said he could, which I had assumed he could which is why I sent the message in the first place, I think some things would have gone differently in the Jimmy Butler saga. I don't know if you missunderstood what I was talking about or what, but when I got a response that I felt was terrible as a first response on the 1st day of free agency, I messaged Ian about it, hoping that he would look in to it. He asked me if I wanted him to say something to him. I didn't want to outright say yeah you need to, because I figured he would at least take my concern and look in to it and do his due diligence. Now we come to see that literally everyone who messaged Jeremiah about Jimmy Butler got the same, shitty response. You know its funny how you say that PAs aren't being paid to serve us and we shouldn't be bitching and that we need balls. Its funny because this same outrage and attitude is displayed throughout the year, in this league, to Walt Frazier and sometimes myself in the Ratings Committee. We don't get fucking paid to do that shit. But if the ratings aren't in soon, we hear it. If someone feels the numbers are wrong, we hear it. If someone feels the slightest inclination of anything about the ratings and how they are done, we hear it. We don't get fucking paid for that shit either. And it takes up a good portion of time to do, a lot longer of time that to read a fucking response, say thank you, Jimmy will consider your team. So how about you quit telling people how to act and how to be. Chances are if there's a serious amount of outrage for something, it is deserved. People don't become mad over things for no reason. This is arguably the most important free agent class and most important free agent position in D5's history, and I believe that it got fucked up. Getting one response when I sent Kawhi at least a message a day for 7 days, is pretty terrible. If you didn't have the time to be a Player Agent, you shouldn't have been one, plain and simple. 3 What gave you the right to be outrage? What gave you the right to ask for perfection from them? (General Message) In real life, decisions are not perfect either, so why ask for it here? Again, we are talking about a fellow GM here. Why can't the majority of you even have the balls to talk them properly and without animosity? Who are we in the first place. We are all in equal footing here. Those who take the responsibility of PA, TC and RC are sacrificing time, effort and brain cells and yet you treat them as your service crews in a restaurant. Maybe you are perfect? No, maybe you really want the Free Agency to be a simple math calculation where we put values and just compute the decision of the player. What gives me the right to be outraged is the fact that I am a human being who invests time in this league and cares about what happens. I am more outraged over the Jimmy Butler situation and Ian not addressing it when I told him about it. Ian isn't just a GM, he is the Commissioner who should take concerns seriously. And when I learned that A. this didn't just occur on my offer, and B. that Ian didn't look into it in the slightest, its upsetting. Why do I need balls to talk to a fellow GM properly? What is it with you and balls? Do you not have any? We are not all on equal footing here. There's certain people in this league who do a lot more than others. Those few take on responsibilities knowing the consequences of the actions they may or may not take. When joining the RC, I knew there would be backlash and outrage over things. If you're a PA, and don't have the time to really be one and respond to offers accordingly, why be one in the first place? If you ask for the responsibility and make those decisions, you need to be prepared that you're going to piss some people off. I don't want free agency to be a simple math calculation. What I want is more than one response to an offer over 7 days. What I want is the right people in the right positions doing the things they asked to do. Jeremiah should have never been a PA. He was too inexperienced. And I understand that you only gain experience through doing things, however, he hasn't actually really been in serious discussions for the signing of a free agent. So, we give that person the most important free agent class in the most important free agency year to date. Makes no sense. And if you want to talk about talking to fellow GM's properly, quit saying no one has balls, you stupid fuck.
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Vlade Divac
Former Kings GM
Sophomore
Posts: 630
Oct 20, 2024 15:22:14 GMT
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Post by Vlade Divac on Jul 9, 2016 22:12:33 GMT
Can Dan just quit already so I can have the Suns? I literally want to start rebuilding teams, get them in a better position, and then go on to the next rebuilding project.
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Post by JR Wiles on Jul 9, 2016 22:39:56 GMT
Can Dan just quit already so I can have the Suns? I literally want to start rebuilding teams, get them in a better position, and then go on to the next rebuilding project.
Honestly, I don't think you should get another team. Everyone has issues. I'm pretty sure I'm right there with ya with personal and health issues. And I've had many issues trying to build this team. So by the rules would that be fair..
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Post by Ian Noble on Jul 9, 2016 23:01:33 GMT
What's going on with this thread now? lol
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Post by JR Wiles on Jul 9, 2016 23:07:21 GMT
What's going on with this thread now? Needs closed if FA signing is FINAL!! 😲
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Vlade Divac
Former Kings GM
Sophomore
Posts: 630
Oct 20, 2024 15:22:14 GMT
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Post by Vlade Divac on Jul 9, 2016 23:24:29 GMT
Can Dan just quit already so I can have the Suns? I literally want to start rebuilding teams, get them in a better position, and then go on to the next rebuilding project.
Honestly, I don't think you should get another team. Everyone has issues. I'm pretty sure I'm right there with ya with personal and health issues. And I've had many issues trying to build this team. So by the rules would that be fair.. Haha, you would have killed yourself if you went through what I went through. Luckily, that's most behind me now....well sort of.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 27, 2024 14:19:57 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2016 23:41:16 GMT
Haha, you would have killed yourself if you went through what I went through. Luckily, that's most behind me now....well sort of. I don't know man JR has been through some tough fucking shit
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Vlade Divac
Former Kings GM
Sophomore
Posts: 630
Oct 20, 2024 15:22:14 GMT
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Post by Vlade Divac on Jul 9, 2016 23:50:06 GMT
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Post by JR Wiles on Jul 9, 2016 23:58:15 GMT
We both have. No need to talk about it. Still going thru it. Oh well. And I'm sorry vlade...
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Post by Charles Barkley on Jul 11, 2016 1:00:31 GMT
ADMIN: Charles Barkley received an official warning for this reply.
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Jul 6, 2022 13:06:41 GMT
Bump. This is the other side of the coin. Wherein Jeremiah used General Loyalty as one of the positive factor for Chicago.
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Post by Ian Noble on Jul 6, 2022 13:23:45 GMT
Unheard Unseen Unsmelled Unhindered Unhinged
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Jul 6, 2022 13:38:00 GMT
Unheard Unseen Unsmelled Unhindered Unhinged It is addicting right?
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