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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2015 23:54:21 GMT
We have talked about it enough. If you don't know..ask.
Jrue Holiday plays on the Bucks of D5 for Glenn Robinson. He was injured for many weeks IRL and by the time he was placed on our IR, he was taken off the IR for returning IRL for the playoffs, just to get injured again. He was injured when he came back.
There have been other players as well in our league this season that should have set out some games. Those players that were not put on IR were done so by the choice of Ian. Hopefully by next season we come up with a better system that is fair.
But in Jrue's case, he never did the time on IR that he deserved. So should we as a league allow him and the Bucks make the seasons outcome even more false?
Please put your vote in! It may not make a difference, but closed mouths don't get fed...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2015 23:58:24 GMT
If yes, how long?
If no, why?
I think he should miss the remainder of the season. He can not make up enough games on the IR to not miss the rest.
Those players that have not been placed on the IR is a sad thing, but those that have..need to do their time.
As for players injured in the playoffs...they were injured...if it's season ending or over the allotted time they should be placed on the IR in D5..
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Larry Bird
Indiana Pacers
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Post by Larry Bird on Apr 29, 2015 0:17:58 GMT
Agree with JR
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Apr 29, 2015 1:21:55 GMT
This is everyone's fault. Honestly I pay attention to basketball headlines and you guys know I'm always watching games but I didn't even know he was injured until the playoffs started and they started talking about it. Part of the blame is on the NBA's refusal to change their national TV Schedule and forcing us to watch the quite frankly insulting Knicks and Lakers all year. I would have liked to see the Bucks and Pels instead of them all year.
to be continued...
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Apr 29, 2015 1:42:42 GMT
As far as if players injured in the Playoffs it is insanely unbalanced to count those injuries in D5. Just for example with K Love he's gonna miss about 12-20 games or so if he misses the entire playoffs. However if he is put on the injury list the rest of the season it's going to cost Houston like 20 games plus an extra 20-30 games in the playoffs. Obviously that isn't fair.
Also to counting Playoff injuries is unfair for another reason, not every NBA player is in the real life playoffs. Therefore only half the players are at risk for injury. For example right now Glenn is immune to a Drummond injury throughout the rest of the season. Same with Westbrook and every other player who isn't on a playoff team in real life but may be on a team in D5 Playoffs. This is why I disagree with playoff injuries counting.
This is something that is going to need review in the offseason as we dial down how to make injuries work better.
My vote is for Holiday to miss until the playoffs in D5. He only played 40 games this season but I don't think it's fair to take him from Glenn for the rest of the season because they don't update there injuries that well. I don't see this costing him too much in terms of the regular season. I do think he should be able to play for the D5 playoffs.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2015 1:48:04 GMT
This is everyone's fault. Honestly I pay attention to basketball headlines and you guys know I'm always watching games but I didn't even know he was injured until the playoffs started and they started talking about it. Part of the blame is on the NBA's refusal to change their national TV Schedule and forcing us to watch the quite frankly insulting Knicks and Lakers all year. I would have liked to see the Bucks and Pels instead of them all year. to be continued... I posted in the injury thread that Jrue holiday was out the day he was out, everyone else including glenn and JR and Ian all ignored it
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Apr 29, 2015 1:49:57 GMT
I didn't really pay much attention to the injury thread as most of my players aren't in the NBA or don't play enough to even get injured. I could keep an eye on Smart because the Cavs are division rivals of them.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2015 1:53:44 GMT
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Post by Alex English on Apr 29, 2015 2:07:37 GMT
If yes, how long? If no, why? Interesting that you only ask me justify myself if I vote no. So yes votes are worthy no matter what? Then I vote Jrue should be on the IR for 410 games. Come back in 5 years Glenn and don't even think about playing Jrue until you calendar says 2020. You filthy cheating vagabond! While we're at it lets put Anthony Davis on the IR too. I don't like the looks of that guy. He'll be tough to beat in the playoffs, so lets get rid of him now. Besides, the fact that he likes having a unibrow is a sign of a mental disability. Time to sit him on the bench and keep him there.
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Apr 29, 2015 3:32:18 GMT
According to the rules, he should not be. And the Rules is the highest law in our game.
What we should do right now is not to debate if he should be or not, it should be how can we improve the injury system.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2015 3:56:42 GMT
According to the rules, he should not be. And the Rules is the highest law in our game. What we should do right now is not to debate if he should be or not, it should be how can we improve the injury system. According to the rules he should be on IR. He should've been in January til about 2 weeks ago, and then he should be going back on it now because of surgery.
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Post by Sam Bowie on Apr 29, 2015 3:58:19 GMT
According to the rules, he should not be. And the Rules is the highest law in our game. There is no rule, The 1st post of the Injury List says: CBS Sports Injury List provides a general guide, with players listed as "Out indefinitely" or "Out for season" especially considered for the injury list, but other players may be added. ------------------------------------------------ To resume the "Holiday of Holiday" : - Mon 1/12 - Holiday's last game in real life Add Jrue Holiday. reinjured his leg and has been out for a month already. Has no time table for a return. Kevin Durant and Jrue Holiday added. - Fri 4/10 - Holiday returns in real life. Time missed in real life: 3 months, Time missed in sim: around 20 days. With all that said, at this point I don't care about whether Holiday misses more games or not. I already ended that discussion with my previous last post. Just replying to mention there is no rule per se.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Apr 29, 2015 5:52:10 GMT
According to the rules, he should not be. And the Rules is the highest law in our game. What we should do right now is not to debate if he should be or not, it should be how can we improve the injury system. According to the rules he should be on IR. He should've been in January til about 2 weeks ago, and then he should be going back on it now because of surgery. With regards to him being added due to Surgery that happened in his real life off-season: "Also to counting Playoff injuries is unfair for another reason, not every NBA player is in the real life playoffs. Therefore only half the players are at risk for injury. For example right now Glenn is immune to a Drummond injury throughout the rest of the season. Same with Westbrook and every other player who isn't on a playoff team in real life but may be on a team in D5 Playoffs. This is why I disagree with playoff injuries counting." - Jeremiah Hill posted above.
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Apr 29, 2015 6:09:21 GMT
According to the rules, he should not be. And the Rules is the highest law in our game. There is no rule, The 1st post of the Injury List says: CBS Sports Injury List provides a general guide, with players listed as "Out indefinitely" or "Out for season" especially considered for the injury list, but other players may be added. ------------------------------------------------ To resume the "Holiday of Holiday" : - Mon 1/12 - Holiday's last game in real life Add Jrue Holiday. reinjured his leg and has been out for a month already. Has no time table for a return. Kevin Durant and Jrue Holiday added. - Fri 4/10 - Holiday returns in real life. Time missed in real life: 3 months, Time missed in sim: around 20 days. With all that said, at this point I don't care about whether Holiday misses more games or not. I already ended that discussion with my previous last post. Just replying to mention there is no rule per se. My mistake then.. but my point remains. The Injury rules should be more clearer and fairer.
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Post by Charles Barkley on Apr 29, 2015 6:58:00 GMT
I voted no.
The reason I voted no is because he is likely having OFF-SEASON surgery, which will cause him to miss 0 games this season. That is his current injury status. What happened during the season, was during the season, we are in the playoffs now in RL guys.
If we do keep Holiday out, I think he should be held out to the playoffs, as he was in real life. And then Glenn can play him in the playoffs. Off-season and playoff injuries should not count towards our league as our league does not align with the NBA season. It greatly hamstrings a lot of teams that have players still playing, while others are worry free.
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Apr 29, 2015 9:23:20 GMT
If offseason injuries don't count after the season, then why is everyone cool with them counting before the season? Alex is getting a ton more of Paul George in D5 than the Pacers got in real life. Isn't that the same situation?
Due to the timing of our league, all injuries should count, period. If a guy gets injured in the 48th minute of the 82nd game, he should be out in D5. If he gets injured in the first game of the season and is back before D5 starts, he should be healthy in D5. That's the system we implemented, and that's what we gotta stick to this year.
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Larry Bird
Indiana Pacers
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Post by Larry Bird on Apr 29, 2015 10:44:18 GMT
They should miss the same amount of games in D5 as in RL. If that's during the season in RL and over part of the season and playoffs in D5 so be it. We have unrealistic outcomes based of this injury conundrum because players are being allowed to play and ppl lay more games than they did in RL.
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Apr 29, 2015 14:12:18 GMT
Barber pretty much states what I mentioned about there being a carryover. Since we are delayed in relation to the real nba schedule, the timing difference has to be accounted for somewhere. Since we are in a delay, this difference would be the playoffs. Injuries that occur in the playoffs should be implemented in our d5 season. Anyone who doesn't see the reason for this is blind.
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Post by James Kay on Apr 29, 2015 14:14:11 GMT
I think we should step back and examine why we chose to implement this system. It was an attempt to further the realism of this sim-league. I don’t believe that any one is upset about the implementation of an injury system, just that it has affected every team equally due to the ambiguity of the injury guidelines. I know everyone probably realizes this, and I’m just beating a dead horse, but I think the reasoning behind why we started this system. We want d5 to be as close to real life as possible.
With that being said, I don’t believe it is very realistic that a player start 81 games IRL and then miss the rest of the d5 season. I don’t believe it is realistic that a player start even 60 games and miss the rest of the d5 season. I think that the injury system is a good thing for d5, but going overboard will kill a lot of the fun. We want our players to play as much as possible. The current injury system will only lead to players sitting out for longer than they did IRL. I think that d5 will be better if the players are allowed to play.
Therefore, I think a system based around these ideas would work best. When a player misses three weeks of the IRL regular season, they are placed on IR for an exact amount of IRL regular season missed games. This three week grace period allows us to validate the severity of the injury, preclude “shutting down” injuries for non-playoff stars, and give the injury committee time to calculate the amount of games that should be missed. However, once the IRL playoffs start, any player who has been injured IRL for less than 3 months returns to action in d5. This prevents a player who missed the last 20 games IRL from missing the last 40+ games in d5, while still allowing for long-term injuries such as PG, Durant, and Bosh, just off the top of my head.
All in all, I think this method would be simple enough to implement, fair if applied consistently, and non-restrictive enough to allow our players to play. I’d much rather have d5 players play too many games than too little.
And in regard to the Jrue situation, I think that it should be up to Glenn. I think that he didn’t do anything wrong. And it’s weird to kinda retroactively “punish” him for a broken system, but I think that as the number 1 seed, any accomplishments from this season might be tarnished by the fact that his team was able to unfairly avoid injuries. Perhaps just having Jrue miss the rest of the regular season would be a compromise?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2015 14:38:45 GMT
We need an injury committee lmao!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2015 14:39:32 GMT
#JRforinjuryCzar
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Larry Bird
Indiana Pacers
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Post by Larry Bird on Apr 29, 2015 15:19:11 GMT
#JRforInjuryCzar
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2015 15:53:34 GMT
All this has nothing to do with me. Its about the league and the current injury system. I've tried to have multiple players placed on IR because in all reality, those players missed a good amount of games IRL. I've also been taking in what a lot of GMs have said recently about different players and the current D5 season compared to the real NBA season. James Kay has a really good point about why we decided to add in injuries to our league. We wanted to make our league as real as possible. The problem is, the system(really don't feel we have a fair set system) that Ian and others have implemented thus far is not working. There are players that had missed 20+ games that never saw the IR. Ian's decision I guess based on the website he used, but there are definitely players that should have been placed on the IR to match the real life games missed due to injury. Ex: Jamal Crawford and I believe another was from Boston(Anthony Bennett). In Holidays case I have heard GMs mostly agree that he should miss the same amount of games that he missed IRL. Glenn's fault or not. Ian's decision of when or not. He was placed on the IR really really late and then taken off the IR because his team IRL decided to bring him back for the playoffs. Not because he was 100% ready, but because it was the playoffs and they felt they would be better with an 80% Jrue Holiday then another player. The way it played out though, was that he was not ready or healthy to return and he did not help his team but maybe even hurt his team in limited minutes. We implemented the injuries into our league to make things more real life. Players need to miss the amount of games they did IRL. If the choice to do so was late by choice that's fine. Ian and others were trying to make sure he was really out. My opinion this should have been realized months ago. And if then Jrue would have been placed on the IR he may not have missed any D5 playoff games. Honestly the way and the reasoning of his return for the playoffs really should not be reason enough for him to be taken off the IR in either league. I know its not Glenn's fault. But to be fair to the league, Jrue did not miss the games he missed IRL. He was then taken off the injured reserve after missing just a few games. As a league if we look at how situations, wins, records and all that worked out because of the decisions made to place or not place players on the IR...then the season has already been tainted. But for those players that were placed on the IR, we need to make sure as others have said... We need to make sure they miss the amt of time they did IRL. If that includes the playoffs so be it. Holiday is not the only player I have issues with. But its a clear situation and because it is we need to abide by the rule we put in place to make our league as real as possible. That means making sure players miss the amt of games they do IRL. After the playoffs in our league we need to as a league implement a system that's fair and works. If we need a committee so be it. But for now we need to make sure this season is as fair as possible. I agree with both sides about injuries and the playoffs. Its a decision that needs to be made for the remainder of this season and something that needs added into the injury system for future seasons. I'm not trying to go against anyone. I just want things fair. I dont like false or fake outcomes because we put to much time and heart into our teams for the season not to be legit.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Apr 29, 2015 18:08:51 GMT
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Post by Alex English on Apr 29, 2015 18:54:40 GMT
If offseason injuries don't count after the season, then why is everyone cool with them counting before the season? Alex is getting a ton more of Paul George in D5 than the Pacers got in real life. Isn't that the same situation? Due to the timing of our league, all injuries should count, period. If a guy gets injured in the 48th minute of the 82nd game, he should be out in D5. If he gets injured in the first game of the season and is back before D5 starts, he should be healthy in D5. That's the system we implemented, and that's what we gotta stick to this year. I agree with this. It's a stupid system, but it's the one we have.
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Post by Ian Noble on Apr 29, 2015 20:18:49 GMT
Almost all the systems and rules we have here at D5 have undergone amendment. Looking through the rules you can see how many amendments have happened in there by the number of replies to threads. The injury system is one of the newest systems we have and when I implemented it I knew it was not perfect, but that it was still better to have an imperfect system than none at all. I think every GM would agree. The system has meant that poorly reported real-life NBA injuries have benefited some teams more than others, but whether this happened was utterly random and benefited/harmed our D5 teams without any kind of conscious decision being made. Glenn's Bucks have done really well in the East this season and I don't think he should feel any worry about being in that position, there's no reason for an asterisk beside his performance at all, we could easily find other instances where other teams have also benefited from this year's injury system. It's a fact that Jrue Holiday should have been on the injury list for longer, but the imperfect system that was in place led to him playing a lot more than he should have done. Something must be done to minimise or stop this kind of thing happening, and as well as that I need to properly account for what happens when players undergo real-life, off-season medical procedures that they've waited to have done - obviously these should not put a player on our injury list (see other Bucks player, Chandler Parsons). For the remainder of this season I'm going to stick with the imperfect system we have because I've not seen a better one proposed and I need to take the time to think of a better system and/or modify the system we have now. James Kay's suggestion was quite a good one I thought. I apologise that the system hasn't been perfect but it was better than no system at all. edit: To clarify - if a player undergoes surgery because their real-life team's season is ended, they will NOT be added to the injury list, that's a change I'm very happy to make on the fly that I didn't anticipate.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2015 20:36:45 GMT
Almost all the systems and rules we have here at D5 have undergone amendment. Looking through the rules you can see how many amendments have happened in there by the number of replies to threads. The injury system is one of the newest systems we have and when I implemented it I knew it was not perfect, but that it was still better to have an imperfect system than none at all. I think every GM would agree. The system has meant that poorly reported real-life NBA injuries have benefited some teams more than others, but whether this happened was utterly random and benefited/harmed our D5 teams without any kind of conscious decision being made. Glenn's Bucks have done really well in the East this season and I don't think he should feel any worry about being in that position, there's no reason for an asterisk beside his performance at all, we could easily find other instances where other teams have also benefited from this year's injury system. It's a fact that Jrue Holiday should have been on the injury list for longer, but the imperfect system that was in place led to him playing a lot more than he should have done. Something must be done to minimise or stop this kind of thing happening, and as well as that I need to properly account for what happens when players undergo real-life, off-season medical procedures that they've waited to have done - obviously these should not put a player on our injury list (see other Bucks player, Chandler Parsons). For the remainder of this season I'm going to stick with the imperfect system we have because I've not seen a better one proposed and I need to take the time to think of a better system and/or modify the system we have now. James Kay's suggestion was quite a good one I thought. I apologise that the system hasn't been perfect but it was better than no system at all. So what... Holiday plays the rest of the season and just because of an imperfect system he will not go back on IR?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2015 20:41:49 GMT
As you can see Ian the league voted so far 11-6 to have him placed on the IR
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Post by Ian Noble on Apr 29, 2015 20:42:27 GMT
So what... Holiday plays the rest of the season and just because of an imperfect system he will not go back on IR? That is exactly what I wrote, yes.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2015 20:51:34 GMT
Best of Luck to all current GMs. I know I have been very open about my feelings and I apologize to those that are fair and honest. I can no longer put so much time into a league that makes bad choices. Up until this season, this had been a great league. I will miss most of you. I will check in when I can or if I can. I think I leave my team in a good position to move forward. Next season would have been fun. This season in D5 needs to be noted as a season of trial and error, because the injury system screwed everything and everyone.
Again thanks for great times and fun, but I leave today and will not be returning as gm of the SA Spurs.
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