Larry Bird
Indiana Pacers
Starter
Posts: 1,672
Mar 5, 2024 13:29:26 GMT
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Post by Larry Bird on Apr 29, 2015 20:52:15 GMT
I think this imperfect injury system might cause some GMs to contimplate retirement.
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Post by Ian Noble on Apr 29, 2015 21:00:26 GMT
Awww JR you would've had your pick next season and some favourable salaries to build on. Like you said, your team is prepared for moving onwards and upwards.
I'm surprised you want to leave over just this system. I'm going to leave your team open for a while in case you come back, you're a pretty integral part of this league.
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
Dec 16, 2022 11:27:40 GMT
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Apr 29, 2015 21:00:48 GMT
So, just so we know now, if Steph Curry breaks his ankle in the playoffs, he won't go on the IR?
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Post by Ian Noble on Apr 29, 2015 21:03:27 GMT
So, just so we know now, if Steph Curry breaks his ankle in the playoffs, he won't go on the IR? He would definitely go on the Injury List, because he's injured himself. But now that the Mavs are eliminated and Chandler Parsons wants to undergo surgery on his knee, I don't see why he should go on the Injury List. Otherwise, because our D5 schedule is 1 month or so behind the NBA each year, we have a bunch of teams absolutely decimated by timed surgeries like Parsons every time the Playoffs role around.
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Post by Ian Noble on Apr 29, 2015 21:05:07 GMT
Yeah just to clarify - if a player undergoes surgery because their real-life team's season is ended, they will NOT be added to the injury list, that's a change I'm very happy to make on the fly that I didn't anticipate.
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
Dec 16, 2022 11:27:40 GMT
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Apr 29, 2015 21:11:19 GMT
So what are we doing about Love. If he misses the entire playoffs and gets surgery, what happens?
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
Dec 16, 2022 11:27:40 GMT
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Apr 29, 2015 21:12:11 GMT
David Griffin stated that there is pretty much zero chance he plays in the playoffs and that he may have to get surgery for ligament damage.
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Post by James Kay on Apr 29, 2015 21:13:28 GMT
James Kay's suggestion was quite a good one I thought. ayy I thought so too
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Post by Ian Noble on Apr 29, 2015 21:24:25 GMT
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Post by Charles Barkley on Apr 30, 2015 2:29:12 GMT
The thing with Love's injury is that they are in the playoffs. It is his first run in the playoffs. Guys are more willing to play through injuries during the playoffs than if it is the regular season. If he gets put on the IR right now, I miss him for a month longer than the Cavs would, and I think that's fucked up. Especially when you consider that they haven't officially ruled him out for anything longer than the ECSF yet. The timing of our league with the injury system just leaves teams open to get fucked. I get that I am biased on this matter, as I believe any GM would be. Rose's timetable for recovery from knee surgery was 4-6 weeks, he missed time in our league, because the timetable was listed, at the top end, of 6 weeks. But he came back in 5 weeks. So let's just say that if it was listed that Rose would be back in 5 weeks, I wouldn't have lost him for any part of the season. I got screwed over there, which is fine. I get it. But with Love, that's completely different. Guys have come back from a shoulder dislocation and missed 0 games, see Glen Davis. While those websites posted are credible, we aren't considering the fact that its the playoffs for him. Say the Cavs beat the Bulls/Bucks, and Love decides to gut it out during the ECF, what will be the case then if he is placed on IR right now? Right now Love is officially listed out for the ECSF, that time period is less than 6 weeks. Everything everyone else has said is just speculation on the matter. What if Love has some Willis Reed in him and comes out there and pushes through the pain and decides to play? That is a huge possibility, this isn't some regular season injury, its an injury to a key player on a team with championship aspirations. What happened a few years ago with Serge Ibaka? He was supposedly out for the playoffs with a leg injury, IIRC. And then, he guts it out and comes back and plays. Guys play through major injuries in the playoffs. That is my point. I think putting him on the IR right now is a speculative move and it kills me for the last month of the season. I think Kevin Love's injury is a special situation and it needs to be handled fairly and correctly. He isn't ruled out for more than 6 weeks. There's a possibility that he toughs it out, pulls his pants up, and plays through the injury.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 29, 2024 3:23:23 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2015 3:46:02 GMT
The thing with Love's injury is that they are in the playoffs. It is his first run in the playoffs. Guys are more willing to play through injuries during the playoffs than if it is the regular season. If he gets put on the IR right now, I miss him for a month longer than the Cavs would, and I think that's fucked up. Especially when you consider that they haven't officially ruled him out for anything longer than the ECSF yet. The timing of our league with the injury system just leaves teams open to get fucked. I get that I am biased on this matter, as I believe any GM would be. Rose's timetable for recovery from knee surgery was 4-6 weeks, he missed time in our league, because the timetable was listed, at the top end, of 6 weeks. But he came back in 5 weeks. So let's just say that if it was listed that Rose would be back in 5 weeks, I wouldn't have lost him for any part of the season. I got screwed over there, which is fine. I get it. But with Love, that's completely different. Guys have come back from a shoulder dislocation and missed 0 games, see Glen Davis. While those websites posted are credible, we aren't considering the fact that its the playoffs for him. Say the Cavs beat the Bulls/Bucks, and Love decides to gut it out during the ECF, what will be the case then if he is placed on IR right now? Right now Love is officially listed out for the ECSF, that time period is less than 6 weeks. Everything everyone else has said is just speculation on the matter. What if Love has some Willis Reed in him and comes out there and pushes through the pain and decides to play? That is a huge possibility, this isn't some regular season injury, its an injury to a key player on a team with championship aspirations. What happened a few years ago with Serge Ibaka? He was supposedly out for the playoffs with a leg injury, IIRC. And then, he guts it out and comes back and plays. Guys play through major injuries in the playoffs. That is my point. I think putting him on the IR right now is a speculative move and it kills me for the last month of the season. I think Kevin Love's injury is a special situation and it needs to be handled fairly and correctly. He isn't ruled out for more than 6 weeks. There's a possibility that he toughs it out, pulls his pants up, and plays through the injury. Are you kidding dude? He wouldn't come back in 6 weeks. We all know it, why should you have special treatment? Literally every other injury has happened this way. This is unlike the parsons surgery this is a 6 week injury at the minimum. Be objective, if tyreke Evans had dislocated his shoulder no one would have a problem putting him on IR for the rest of the d5 season, including me. Because that's how it's literally worked for every single injury except jrues
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Post by Charles Barkley on Apr 30, 2015 3:58:43 GMT
The thing with Love's injury is that they are in the playoffs. It is his first run in the playoffs. Guys are more willing to play through injuries during the playoffs than if it is the regular season. If he gets put on the IR right now, I miss him for a month longer than the Cavs would, and I think that's fucked up. Especially when you consider that they haven't officially ruled him out for anything longer than the ECSF yet. The timing of our league with the injury system just leaves teams open to get fucked. I get that I am biased on this matter, as I believe any GM would be. Rose's timetable for recovery from knee surgery was 4-6 weeks, he missed time in our league, because the timetable was listed, at the top end, of 6 weeks. But he came back in 5 weeks. So let's just say that if it was listed that Rose would be back in 5 weeks, I wouldn't have lost him for any part of the season. I got screwed over there, which is fine. I get it. But with Love, that's completely different. Guys have come back from a shoulder dislocation and missed 0 games, see Glen Davis. While those websites posted are credible, we aren't considering the fact that its the playoffs for him. Say the Cavs beat the Bulls/Bucks, and Love decides to gut it out during the ECF, what will be the case then if he is placed on IR right now? Right now Love is officially listed out for the ECSF, that time period is less than 6 weeks. Everything everyone else has said is just speculation on the matter. What if Love has some Willis Reed in him and comes out there and pushes through the pain and decides to play? That is a huge possibility, this isn't some regular season injury, its an injury to a key player on a team with championship aspirations. What happened a few years ago with Serge Ibaka? He was supposedly out for the playoffs with a leg injury, IIRC. And then, he guts it out and comes back and plays. Guys play through major injuries in the playoffs. That is my point. I think putting him on the IR right now is a speculative move and it kills me for the last month of the season. I think Kevin Love's injury is a special situation and it needs to be handled fairly and correctly. He isn't ruled out for more than 6 weeks. There's a possibility that he toughs it out, pulls his pants up, and plays through the injury. Are you kidding dude? He wouldn't come back in 6 weeks. We all know it, why should you have special treatment? Literally every other injury has happened this way. This is unlike the parsons surgery this is a 6 week injury at the minimum. Be objective, if tyreke Evans had dislocated his shoulder no one would have a problem putting him on IR for the rest of the d5 season. There's no reason I should be objective about this. I am totally biased in this matter, and am just trying to make a point for the other side of the argument. You would do the same if you were in my position. It looks like I am going to lose Kevin Love for an extra month compared to what the Cavs lose him for, which really fucking sucks for me. Why should I be objective about an injury to one of my players in the case that I am getting fucked over. I wouldn't expect any other GM in my position to be objective about it, and I would say it is a fault if they were. They should fight for their team's chance at success. An objective stance would be to simply say, Kevin Love is only officially listed as out for the Eastern Conference Semi-Finals, which is less than 6 weeks. Per our rules, he shouldn't be added to the IR. That's a pretty simple conclusion from what we absolutely know. It isn't some speculative thing, is David Griffin a doctor? No. Is David Griffin Kevin Love? No. So how is anything he says factual? He is simply speculating on the issue of Kevin Love's shoulder dislocation. When the team officially lists him out for longer than 6 weeks is when he should go on the IR, that is our rule. Why should we abandon them in this case? Especially when there is a chance Kevin Love pulls a Willis Reed and decides to play through the injury considering it is the playoffs, and he is a key player for a team that has championship aspirations.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 29, 2024 3:23:23 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2015 4:01:33 GMT
Oh hey "Kevin love out 4-6 months"
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 29, 2024 3:23:23 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2015 4:09:20 GMT
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Post by Charles Barkley on Apr 30, 2015 4:57:47 GMT
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck me
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Post by Charles Barkley on Apr 30, 2015 5:00:11 GMT
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Apr 30, 2015 9:57:24 GMT
I want you to remember this Adam when you are gearing up for the playoffs and Whiteside stubs his toe in the last game of the first round that the Heat loses and I say he's out for the season and you lose him for 40 games.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 29, 2024 3:23:23 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2015 11:15:28 GMT
Hey, not even the same scenario. I bitched about whiteside's rating being a 59, and then he got raised to a rating that is less than his skills. I then didn't touch the whiteside thread again, while comparing rerated big men to whitesides rating (fair use). Only once people decided that they could re rate Kawhi Leonard within 2 months did I post a new whiteside thread.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 29, 2024 3:23:23 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2015 11:16:38 GMT
I want you to remember this Adam when you are gearing up for the playoffs and Whiteside stubs his toe in the last game of the first round that the Heat loses and I say he's out for the season and you lose him for 40 games. If it takes a minimum of six weeks to heal a stubbed toe (like a dislocated shoulder does as Ian posted like 7 fucking articles about it) then I would be sad about losing him, but it would be FAIR. and I would ACCEPT it. Stop sucking each others dicks.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 29, 2024 3:23:23 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2015 11:19:44 GMT
Are you kidding dude? He wouldn't come back in 6 weeks. We all know it, why should you have special treatment? Literally every other injury has happened this way. This is unlike the parsons surgery this is a 6 week injury at the minimum. Be objective, if tyreke Evans had dislocated his shoulder no one would have a problem putting him on IR for the rest of the d5 season. There's no reason I should be objective about this. I am totally biased in this matter, and am just trying to make a point for the other side of the argument. You would do the same if you were in my position. It looks like I am going to lose Kevin Love for an extra month compared to what the Cavs lose him for, which really fucking sucks for me. Why should I be objective about an injury to one of my players in the case that I am getting fucked over. I wouldn't expect any other GM in my position to be objective about it, and I would say it is a fault if they were. They should fight for their team's chance at success. An objective stance would be to simply say, Kevin Love is only officially listed as out for the Eastern Conference Semi-Finals, which is less than 6 weeks. Per our rules, he shouldn't be added to the IR. That's a pretty simple conclusion from what we absolutely know. It isn't some speculative thing, is David Griffin a doctor? No. Is David Griffin Kevin Love? No. So how is anything he says factual? He is simply speculating on the issue of Kevin Love's shoulder dislocation. When the team officially lists him out for longer than 6 weeks is when he should go on the IR, that is our rule. Why should we abandon them in this case? Especially when there is a chance Kevin Love pulls a Willis Reed and decides to play through the injury considering it is the playoffs, and he is a key player for a team that has championship aspirations. No reason you should be objective? YAY I'm so glad you're on committee's that require objectivity. You don't just fucking try to change the rules because it didn't benefit you. You were okay with Holiday being put on IR, but not Kevin Love it's fucking stupid. Jesus christ, you throw it back in my face that I wouldn't be objective but not only do you have no idea, you are 100% wrong. If someone else had signed whiteside, I wouldn't be as fucking annoying about it, but I would've gave him the same goddamn vote, and I'd have the same issue with his rating. I am against inconsistency and his rating is inconsistent with his performance when compared to the ratings of other people, so just fuck off.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Apr 30, 2015 11:32:02 GMT
I want you to remember this Adam when you are gearing up for the playoffs and Whiteside stubs his toe in the last game of the first round that the Heat loses and I say he's out for the season and you lose him for 40 games. If it takes a minimum of six weeks to heal a stubbed toe (like a dislocated shoulder does as Ian posted like 7 fucking articles about it) then I would be sad about losing him, but it would be FAIR. and I would ACCEPT it. Stop sucking each others dicks. Because it's not fair. He happened to have a player who was in the playoffs. Not all players are in the playoffs. Therefore a team with a bunch of high rated guys on scrub teams would have an advantage.
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
Dec 16, 2022 11:27:40 GMT
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Apr 30, 2015 12:33:12 GMT
If it takes a minimum of six weeks to heal a stubbed toe (like a dislocated shoulder does as Ian posted like 7 fucking articles about it) then I would be sad about losing him, but it would be FAIR. and I would ACCEPT it. Stop sucking each others dicks. Because it's not fair. He happened to have a player who was in the playoffs. Not all players are in the playoffs. Therefore a team with a bunch of high rated guys on scrub teams would have an advantage. It's what Alex English said, it's not fair, but that is the system in place. The injuries have to be accounted for in the playoffs, if not, then there is no reason to have injuries at all with the time delay.
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Post by Charles Barkley on May 1, 2015 4:15:26 GMT
There's no reason I should be objective about this. I am totally biased in this matter, and am just trying to make a point for the other side of the argument. You would do the same if you were in my position. It looks like I am going to lose Kevin Love for an extra month compared to what the Cavs lose him for, which really fucking sucks for me. Why should I be objective about an injury to one of my players in the case that I am getting fucked over. I wouldn't expect any other GM in my position to be objective about it, and I would say it is a fault if they were. They should fight for their team's chance at success. An objective stance would be to simply say, Kevin Love is only officially listed as out for the Eastern Conference Semi-Finals, which is less than 6 weeks. Per our rules, he shouldn't be added to the IR. That's a pretty simple conclusion from what we absolutely know. It isn't some speculative thing, is David Griffin a doctor? No. Is David Griffin Kevin Love? No. So how is anything he says factual? He is simply speculating on the issue of Kevin Love's shoulder dislocation. When the team officially lists him out for longer than 6 weeks is when he should go on the IR, that is our rule. Why should we abandon them in this case? Especially when there is a chance Kevin Love pulls a Willis Reed and decides to play through the injury considering it is the playoffs, and he is a key player for a team that has championship aspirations. No reason you should be objective? YAY I'm so glad you're on committee's that require objectivity. You don't just fucking try to change the rules because it didn't benefit you. You were okay with Holiday being put on IR, but not Kevin Love it's fucking stupid. Jesus christ, you throw it back in my face that I wouldn't be objective but not only do you have no idea, you are 100% wrong. If someone else had signed whiteside, I wouldn't be as fucking annoying about it, but I would've gave him the same goddamn vote, and I'd have the same issue with his rating. I am against inconsistency and his rating is inconsistent with his performance when compared to the ratings of other people, so just fuck off. Im objective about ratings, which is what my committee is about. I wouldn't expect any GM to be objective about an injury situation like mine. And it isn't like I'm insanely subjective about it, either. I just simply made an argument against the system pertaining to Love. Holiday's injury situation is more about how it was handled, it is a completely different situation than Love's. The two of them aren't alike in any way.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 29, 2024 3:23:23 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2015 4:22:14 GMT
No reason you should be objective? YAY I'm so glad you're on committee's that require objectivity. You don't just fucking try to change the rules because it didn't benefit you. You were okay with Holiday being put on IR, but not Kevin Love it's fucking stupid. Jesus christ, you throw it back in my face that I wouldn't be objective but not only do you have no idea, you are 100% wrong. If someone else had signed whiteside, I wouldn't be as fucking annoying about it, but I would've gave him the same goddamn vote, and I'd have the same issue with his rating. I am against inconsistency and his rating is inconsistent with his performance when compared to the ratings of other people, so just fuck off. Im objective about ratings, which is what my committee is about. I wouldn't expect any GM to be objective about an injury situation like mine. And it isn't like I'm insanely subjective about it, either. I just simply made an argument against the system pertaining to Love. Holiday's injury situation is more about how it was handled, it is a completely different situation than Love's. The two of them aren't alike in any way. But whether your argument is valid or not, and I believe it is, you HAVE to realize that you need to play by the same rules as everyone else. Next year, maybe you wouldn't lose Kevin Love. But you WOULD be the cheater that JR rants about if you got your way this year. You can bitch and moan all you want, and for good reason, it DOES suck to lose KL like this. And hopefully it is changed for next year, but there is literally no reason for you to receive special treatment that wasn't outlined in the original rules and that no one else has gotten. So just suck it up and prepare for next year. You'll get a better draft pick anyway, not like you were going to win shit with your team anyway.
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Post by Charles Barkley on May 1, 2015 8:47:21 GMT
Im objective about ratings, which is what my committee is about. I wouldn't expect any GM to be objective about an injury situation like mine. And it isn't like I'm insanely subjective about it, either. I just simply made an argument against the system pertaining to Love. Holiday's injury situation is more about how it was handled, it is a completely different situation than Love's. The two of them aren't alike in any way. But whether your argument is valid or not, and I believe it is, you HAVE to realize that you need to play by the same rules as everyone else. Next year, maybe you wouldn't lose Kevin Love. But you WOULD be the cheater that JR rants about if you got your way this year. You can bitch and moan all you want, and for good reason, it DOES suck to lose KL like this. And hopefully it is changed for next year, but there is literally no reason for you to receive special treatment that wasn't outlined in the original rules and that no one else has gotten. So just suck it up and prepare for next year. You'll get a better draft pick anyway, not like you were going to win shit with your team anyway. I don't recall specifically asking Ian to disregard the Kevin Love injury because I wanted special treatment. I don't even recall asking, I do recall making an argument for not counting playoff injuries. I am not asking for special treatment. I made an argument that went against what most people were saying, a dissenting opinion, if you will. Kevin Love could have been Dwight Howard, and I would have made the same argument. The timing of our season vs the NBA's leaves GMs in a terrible position if they lose someone for the season, because it means they lose them for about an extra month and a half. Rectifying that is important, it is one thing to let a GM get an advantage because of the timing, like Alex and PG, but another, more important matter IMHO, when a GM loses a player. I never made the argument when guys like Chris Bosh went down for the season, because I wasn't thinking about the difference in missed games until it happened to me, and my team. Love's injury is different than another season ending injury like Bosh's because it occurred in the playoffs, where only half of our players are playing and it leaves even more teams to a disadvantage. Do I think we will rectify this problem this year? No. Does it need fixed? Yes. What is an easy way to fix this? Make a player sit out in D5 for as many games they missed in the NBA season, minimum of X games. Many of us have suggested that system, the problem is we can't change it mid-season. But, because Love's injury brings up a different set of variables, it having occurred during the NBA's playoffs, and thus, it brings up a new argument to be made. And I chose the dissenting opinion. Not asking for any special treatment, not asking or calling for anything, if I did, I didn't mean to. I was just providing one side of the argument, the side you are against.
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Post by Ian Noble on May 1, 2015 10:42:23 GMT
Creating a system is about identifying variables and deciding upon rules based on those variables.
For example:
Player injured, or not playing (see: Carmelo Anthony), by any means other than off season surgery. Player injured for minimum length of time. Length of time based on CBS website unless towards the end of the regular season when it becomes unreliable because "out for season" may mean just 4 games. Length of time then based upon....?
Please stop talking about dick sucking there's only so much I can take lol
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Glenn Robinson
Milwaukee Bucks
Starter
Posts: 1,226
Mar 2, 2024 5:20:47 GMT
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Post by Glenn Robinson on May 1, 2015 11:56:27 GMT
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 29, 2024 3:23:23 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2015 17:11:54 GMT
JR IS GONE!??!?!?
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