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Post by Alex English on Apr 4, 2014 1:41:10 GMT
This trade manages to suck for both teams. At first glance it is great for the Spurs because he gets Iguodala without giving up an asset that is close in value. Ariza, Henderson and the 2017 pick are the pieces of value he gives up. The Spurs would be in a promising place if they kept Iggy, Isaiah Thomas and kept building from there but it won't happen because of how this affects the cap situation for San Antonio.
This trade would make it impossible for JR to re-sign Iguodala and Isaiah Thomas. Depending on what the cap went to next season, he will be 15 to 20 million over for free agency. He would be guarenteed to lose them and his best players for next season would be Andray Blatche, Jordan Hill, and Amare Stoudemire.
For the Nets it is obvious why this trade sucks. He doesn't have his 1st round pick for this year or next year so I'm guessing this is all about cap space. Betting on hitting a bunch of home runs in free agency is never a good idea.
I'd say this trade hurts San Antonio more than Brooklyn but it's hard to measure. Because of that it's hard to say this trade favours one team way more than the other so this godawful trade may not be worthy or rejecting. I'll wait to here other points of view before actually voting.
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Apr 4, 2014 1:53:59 GMT
What's your plan for your team, Billy?
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Deleted
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Nov 30, 2024 9:24:18 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2014 2:34:18 GMT
I accept. I'm at work guys. Will answer questions later. But yes I'll try and move players for cap to keep Thomas and Iggy. I'm a big Jamison fan as well. Please accept as we do. Ty
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Post by Bryan Colangelo on Apr 4, 2014 2:56:36 GMT
I'd like confirmation from Ian that Josh Childress will be dropped at the end of the season before I accept this deal. This is what i believe will happen Billy but I'm not sure, just giving my 2 cents. Josh Childress will likely be taken out the game, BUT JR drop him, therefore his salary will likely stay on the books. If he had kept Josh on his roster, Ian would of take him out of the game, therefore saving JR 7.5 million or whatever he makes. Since it's just his salary on the books now, and not the player, the salary will likely stay therefore you are taking on 7.5 million next year (or whatever it is he makes) |
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Post by Alex English on Apr 4, 2014 3:10:45 GMT
I'd like confirmation from Ian that Josh Childress will be dropped at the end of the season before I accept this deal. I'm pretty sure you posting the trade to begin with constitutes acceptance. |
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Post by Alex English on Apr 4, 2014 3:14:38 GMT
Contracts don't get removed anyway, or at least they shouldn't. Childress was waived. What he is actually doing now is irrelevant since he is just a cap number.
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Post by Alex English on Apr 4, 2014 3:16:36 GMT
Than why does the OP always post his acceptance after posting a trade? You are maybe right, but it wouldn't make sense why the OP has ALWAYS posted his acceptance after he makes the trade thread. I don't know. What you say makes sense too. I don't really care. Actually I'd be thrilled if you were allowed to back out of this. Then I wouldn't have to actually vote on this disaster of a trade. |
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Post by Walt Frazier on Apr 4, 2014 3:17:07 GMT
I'd like confirmation from Ian that Josh Childress will be dropped at the end of the season before I accept this deal. I'm pretty sure you posting the trade to begin with constitutes acceptance. This is correct. |
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Apr 4, 2014 3:38:18 GMT
I bet all the players are just clamoring to play with Gallinari and Thomas Robinson
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Deleted
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Nov 30, 2024 9:24:18 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2014 3:58:42 GMT
It was accepted . No backing out!!
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Post by Alex English on Apr 4, 2014 4:10:58 GMT
I'm one step closer to achieving my ultimate goal of bringing free agents to Brooklyn. Which free agents? This FA class is terrible. |
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Post by Alex English on Apr 4, 2014 4:43:37 GMT
Sorry, I lied. The only other way to win besides free-agency is if your Alex English and have jedi-mind power to get people to give you Kyrie Irving, Paul George, and James Harden. That Paul George trade was bogus by the way  I lost the Kyrie Irving trade. Even at the time you guys were wrong about me ripping him off. But now it's clear he got more value. |
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Post by Alex English on Apr 4, 2014 4:57:46 GMT
One does not simply lose a "Kyrie Irving" trade. Kyrie Irving Carl Landry for 81 Goran Dragic 80 Kenneth Faried 73 Nikola Vucevic LAL 2013 1st round pick DEN 2014 1st round pick I lost that trade. I could get two Kyrie Irvings for what I gave up if I could go back and do it over. |
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 30, 2024 9:24:18 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2014 12:58:43 GMT
Bump
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Post by Walt Frazier on Apr 4, 2014 13:14:03 GMT
Minnesota Timberwolves are also a great example, although I think that McGee signing will come back and bite them in the butt. Yea we'll see on McGee. Obviously losing an entire year to injury is muy mal. The Nuggets seemed completely into giving him legitimate starter's minutes for the first time in his career, which is really my main hope going forward. And, I had to get a defensive presence next to Kevin Love. I also like that McGee at least showed some initiative and got training from Hakeem before this season or last season, can't remember which, so he wants to get better and that could pay off at least some. His last full year with Denver he put up 9 & 5 with 2 blocks and half a steal in 18:08mpg, shooting 57.5%. I know PER36 aren't perfect but that's an easy one to extrapolate, 18 and 10 with 4 blocks and a steal over 36 minutes. Hey may never get that but he's got big potential! We'll see, keeping my fingers crossed. |
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Larry Bird
 Indiana Pacers
Starter
Posts: 1,672
Mar 5, 2024 13:29:26 GMT
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Post by Larry Bird on Apr 4, 2014 13:18:55 GMT
Jordan Hill isn't serious talent.
He's a decent backup, averaging 9 and 7.
Other than that it's a good trade.
Iguodala and Jamison will help San Antonio climb the playoff ladder.
He does have a negative in Amare's salary.
Brooklyn cuts salary for the offseason.
He has to give up Iguodala, though.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Apr 4, 2014 13:48:11 GMT
As for this trade...it's a tough one. I can't think of any more important piece to that Spurs team than their 2016 and 2017 1st Round Picks. Period. End of story. If he wants to move one of those, I'd really like to see him get an MCW type of player. None of Amare, Iggy, Hill, or Jamison are that type of player.
For that alone I'm very heavily leaning on a reject.
Other things...
Spurs takes on $23,763,488 in salary for NEXT season on this trade. Tawn WILL be picking up that option, he's not getting even half of that money on the open market most likely, so he's sticking around.
That will put the Spurs' cap # at $78,619,410 next season.
He will not be able to re-sign IT2.
He will not be able to re-sign Iggy.
He will play the 2014-15 season with:
Channing Frye (Blatche/Hill)
Amar'e Stoudemire (Harrington)
Antawn Jamison (Tayshaun)
Mike Miller (Dunleavy if he doesn't opt out)
Jose Barea (Fisher if he doesn't opt out)
Let's compare to real-life to see what we have here:
Rating - Player - # of starts IRL - mpg
78 - Frye - 75 - 28 mpg...shares duties with at least two other bigs.
79 - Amar'e - 15 - 22 mpg...most of those starts have come lately as he's had a stretch of relative health.
77 - Blatche - 6 - 22 mpg (injury fill-in and they've stopped using him for that in favor of Mason Plumlee)
77 - Hill - 25 - 20 mpg...think his rating will be 78 or 79
82 - Jamison - 0 - 11 mpg...Should probably be looking at a rating of like 75 TOPS.
79 - Tayshaun - 72 - 26 mpg...he starts as a glue guy, not someone to build around. Rating going down.
80 - Miller - 4 - 21 mpg...3 pt specialist, that's about it. Rating going down.
75 - Dunleavy - 54 - 31 mpg...Solid player, very likely he opts out of his minimum contract though with SA
76 - Barea - 0 - 18 mpg...Solid backup guard, not too efficient anywhere though.
74 - Fisher - 0 - 17 mpg...solid backup, can hit his 3...that's about it though. More like a 4th/5th Guard
So, we have what looks like two and a half NBA starters, neither of whom are the 1st, 2nd, or probably even 3rd best starter on their team, and only one player over 30 mpg in real life who is likely to leave this Spurs team this offseason anyway. The most combined # of starts, if you choose any kind of reasonable starting lineup, would be about 176, or about 35.2 real-life starts per position...zero coming from PG.
This team will get worse next season, at best it will be about where it is now. I don't see how we can condone throwing away their future when they are not going to be all that good anytime in the foreseeable future.
I'm going to reject.
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Apr 4, 2014 14:34:36 GMT
Those Chicago 2nd rounders are going TO San Antonio, right?
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Post by Walt Frazier on Apr 4, 2014 14:41:46 GMT
As for this trade...it's a tough one. I can't think of any more important piece to that Spurs team than their 2016 and 2017 1st Round Picks. Period. End of story. If he wants to move one of those, I'd really like to see him get an MCW type of player. None of Amare, Iggy, Hill, or Jamison are that type of player. Lol, you really think I'd even consider MCW for his 2017? Come on now. IT2 is more important than both of those picks and JR has already stated that he's committed to him and will make the necessary moves to keep him. JR wants to compete and that is exactly what these players provide. JR does not want to rebuild and acquire picks or young talents, he wants to compete. I think your vision for the Spurs and JR's are greatly different. If JR does not make any trades, yes, his cap # will be at $78,619,410. However, there is no reason to believe that JR will stay put and not make any transactions. He has already publicly stated that he will make moves and do whatever he can to make room for IT2 and Iguodala. Quick to judge, no? JR is capable of resigning both of them. I know the future of a team is important for the Trade Committee to take into account when judging a trade, but the trade is fair as it stands and helps both parties towards their goals. With this type of attitude towards San Antonio, they will never be able to make any moves to get them into the playoffs. Currently, the San Antonio Spurs reserve the 10th spot in the Western Conference. If they can acquire Iguodala, Amare, and Antawn Jamison, they have as much chance as anyone to enter the playoffs and end their playoff drought. This team is not in such a desperate place in the league as you make them out to be. They are fighting in the West for a playoff seed which is impressive enough as it is without a true franchise player. Iguodala proves them with just that. #1 - No I don't think you'd move MCW, but I also don't think he should move that pick w/o getting "someone like that". #2 - Opinion has been given, and fleshed out in great detail as to why I feel the way I feel. If you gave him a player that was actually very good AND going to stick around awhile, I might feel different. #3 - I can't judge this trade on future trades that might happen. As of now, this puts the Spurs in a HORRIBLE position to sign Iggy and IT2. To have a realistic shot at signing just ONE of them, he'd have to clear out about 30 million in cap. To get both, he should push closer to $40 million off the books. Problem is he has fewer and fewer pieces people will actually want to acquire, let alone take on 10's and 20's of millions of dollars in the process. Still a reject for me. I look forward to hearing what the other CM's think but I'm pretty set myself. |
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Post by Walt Frazier on Apr 4, 2014 14:42:27 GMT
Those Chicago 2nd rounders are going TO San Antonio, right? Nice catch, yeah. I don't know how I mislabeled them and put them going to Brooklyn. Edited. I hope that makes it more fair now with two seconds going to SAS 2nd Rounders to nothing for me anyway. It's a crapshoot at best. We've seen a few nice grabs but the majority of those picks turn out to be nothing. |
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Post by Walt Frazier on Apr 4, 2014 14:43:25 GMT
Ok. I'm leaning towards accepting, but I would like to hear from JR first on what his plans are for this offseason with Iggy and Thomas. Yes, I am curious who he plans to move to clear out $40 million in cap space to have a chance at signing both. Who will take that much money, and what actual talent does he have to give someone to offset that much money. Should be interesting. It's way too easy to say "I will clear cap", compared to actually clearing THAT MUCH. |
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Post by Walt Frazier on Apr 4, 2014 14:51:49 GMT
Yes Billy, by moving players people actually want in Bosh and Lee (about $33 million right there), and then Amar'e in this deal to probably the only manager in the league willing to take him and his salary. And Iggy's salary of course, who is expiring and you wouldn't keep and neither can JR.
Who does JR have like Bosh and Lee? He's got a lot of players who just aren't very good. It's easy to move Chris Bosh and David Lee. Tayshaun Prince and 5 other guys like him, on the decline, with mediocre ratings getting worse? Not so much.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Apr 4, 2014 15:21:40 GMT
This trade hurts his future a lot. It would be one thing if he had all his picks and was hurting his future. But he's already moved his 2014 and 2015, and now his 2017 in this trade.
Sorry, you may think you are outsmarting me Billy but I've simply seen teams go down this path and never recover. It helps JR this year no doubt, but at what expense? Too large of an expense IMO.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2014 15:31:27 GMT
This trade gets me into the playoffs. I was already in the playoff hunt, until certain rating situations were brought up. I didn't trade any of my starters that put me into playoff contention. I'm not going to sit here and write a book explaining my moves. You guys all know I'm here to contend and nothing else. I'm active even after having one of the worst records last season. I could understand if I was not active and if you really believed I wouldn't return for another season. I have other trades In the works. I may not move enough cap to resign IT2 but who cam say I can't resign one of them. I can make a few more trades that can actually make me a western contender. It's Mt team guys. Please stop making decisions based off what you would do. I do not want to rebuild. I will stay mediocre until contracts expire before I do such a thing. Please accept this trade guys. It's fair and it makes me want to be GM. They are my team correct82
Antawn Jamison $5,500,000 $6,000,000
88 Andre Iguodala $15,904,750
79 Amar'e Stoudemire $21,679,893 $23,410,988
79 Al Harrington $7,148,600 $7,609,800
77 Andray Blatche $7,794,921 $8,471,339
80 Mike Miller $6,200,000 $6,600,000
80 Isaiah Thomas $884,293
79 Tayshaun Prince $7,235,955 $7,707,865
76 Jose Barea $4,687,000 $4,519,500
78 Channing Frye $6,400,000 $6,800,000
75 Derek Fisher $490,180 $980,360
75 Mike Dunleavy $490,180 $980,360 $1,470,540
I have one more big trade coming. .but for now here's my current roster with this trade until I make the other one. I will not disclose that trade at this moment. Still working out the details! !
Isaiah Thomas/Derek Fisher
Andre Iguodala/JJ Barea
Mike Miller/Antawn Jamison/.Mike Dunleavy
Al Harrington/Andray Blatche
Amar'e Stoudemire/Channing Frye
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Deleted
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Nov 30, 2024 9:24:18 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2014 15:39:21 GMT
I am the GM of the Spurs and accept all deals that I make. I am active and although I do not makes moves that other GMs would I will be the gm and stay active in the future. You guys KNOW that so do not base my trades off of what you would do.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Apr 4, 2014 15:43:57 GMT
This trade hurts his future a lot. It would be one thing if he had all his picks and was hurting his future. But he's already moved his 2014 and 2015, and now his 2017 in this trade. Sorry, you may think you are outsmarting me Billy but I've simply seen teams go down this path and never recover. It helps JR this year no doubt, but at what expense? Too large of an expense IMO. I don't think he will be worse next year, probably the same as he is now, around the 10-12th seed in the Western Conference if he doesn't create enough cap room for Iguodala and Isaiah. It would be another thing if I was taking IT2 in this trade as well as his first, but I clearly give him some young assets in Jordan Hill as well as 2nd rounders for the future. And I mean no offense to you, Walt, I'm not trying to outsmart you. I'm just trying to get you to see this trade through my perspective and how I think it is fair. IT2 Mike Miller Tayshaun Prince Ama're Stoudemire Jordan Hill This is the worst possible case scenario for the Spurs. As in, they do absolutely nothing and neglect their roster and responsibilities. How is this worse than what he has for next year? Of course there are concerns and benefits for San Antonio, but there are also concerns and benefits for Brooklyn. Again, I think this trade is fair enough to be passed. I really don't like to see TC forcing a destiny upon SAS and making them rebuild and go through the draft. That's not something I would ever do since I'm a free-agent kind of guy and I think JR is something similar. How will he have IT2 on his roster if he does nothing? He's coming off the books this offseason and no money to re-sign him. Also, he doesn't have to build through the draft, but he needs to get a much better long-term piece for his 2017 1st Rounder than Jordan Hill. Period. (from my POV anyway). |
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Deleted
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Nov 30, 2024 9:24:18 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2014 15:51:12 GMT
Yes your point of view. It's always your point of view.
I make this trade which gets me a few other players in future trades. I will not end up getting Hill for my first. It will work out being a lot better. I just need time and the chance to run my team the way I want...
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Post by Walt Frazier on Apr 4, 2014 15:52:22 GMT
They are my team correct 75 Antawn Jamison $5,500,000 $6,000,000 85 Andre Iguodala $15,904,750 79 Amar'e Stoudemire $21,679,893 $23,410,988 74 Al Harrington $7,148,600 $7,609,800 77 Andray Blatche $7,794,921 $8,471,339 76 Mike Miller $6,200,000 $6,600,000 80 Isaiah Thomas $884,293 75 Tayshaun Prince $7,235,955 $7,707,865 76 Jose Barea $4,687,000 $4,519,500 78 Channing Frye $6,400,000 $6,800,000 75 Derek Fisher $490,180 $980,360 75 Mike Dunleavy $490,180 $980,360 $1,470,540 Fixed those ratings for you. You left (77) Jordan Hill out btw. |
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Chris Mullin
 Golden State Warriors
Starter
Posts: 1,303
Feb 19, 2024 21:58:28 GMT
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Post by Chris Mullin on Apr 4, 2014 15:56:06 GMT
I dont usually comment on other GMs trades, but I think this trade is fair enough that if both teams want to do it, they should be allowed to do it. I understand the arguments from both GMs and the TC members but just like with any trade there are always risks involved that could either help or hurt a team in the future.
Also there was a trade passed that 20 GMs in this league voted as being unfair to 5 GMs voting it fair. That trade involved a team trading an All Star & 2 starters for 1 draft pick. I know the 2 trades are very different in a lot ways but it involved 2 new GMs that were given the freedom to run their teams as they saw fit by the TC. This trade involves 2 veteran GMs that want to run their teams their way, regardless of what popular opinion may be on each of their plans.
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Deleted
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Nov 30, 2024 9:24:18 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2014 15:56:56 GMT
Guys I would fight more about it but it's hard doing this from my phone. Once this trades done I have other plans and a trade or two coming in the next week or so. Please accept. Thanks
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