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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2014 16:16:30 GMT
First of all this won't make the league better. Yes if this was done before the season or after the season. Our teams are where they are because of who they are now. We go fucking up the ratings the whole season outcome could change. It's like playing this whole season up to this point for nothing. Not only that Ian can only do some at a time right now. Wouldn't it be smart to give him time when we have a break in between leagues and the off season. GMs have made moves up to this point off of the current ratings and what their team has done so far. How many GMs quit when their team is in playoff contention just to see their team fail after rating changes midseason. I just think it's a huge mistake. I can't be the only gm feeling this way. Speak up and be men guys. It's speak up now or don't cry later.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Apr 1, 2014 16:31:20 GMT
Isn't the whole point that this game mirrors real life? Isn't like half the fun of the league just bullshitting and arguing about basketball with other people who like basketball? If you take away mid-season rating changes you are gonna have a bunch of people be happy with their team just forget about them because they know there is nothing going on and then never log on again.
If you make a trade only based on ratings you are stupid, you should always check the players real life stats or at least know whether they are bound to get a decrease. I've only been doing this for like 2 months and I can already tell you that.
You getting upset because your guys are getting lowered is stupid, you knew that this was something that was likely to occur whether you like it or not. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it just wasn't going to happen.
Protip: Don't trade for highly paid over thirty role players who weren't even that great to begin with.
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Post by Alex English on Apr 1, 2014 17:06:07 GMT
It doesn't make sense to not allow rating changes mid season for a few reasons.
It doesn't make sense because in real life, players don't just freeze in time from November 1st to the middle of June of whenever the playoffs end. That is an extremely long period of time and players are practicing, working out, and training to improve their skills all throughout their season. You can see it best with rookies, if you look at a guy in his first few games and then again at the end of the season you usually see massive improvement. The same things happens in reverse with declining players. The NBA season is extremely long and you can see players break down or hit a wall. If players' skill levels change during the season in real life then why shouldn't that be reflected here as well?
It also doesn't make sense for admin purposes. Activity is a fraction of what it is during the season compared to after the season. You would rarely get solid discussion on players and everything would take significantly longer.
Also following the season here we move over to the other league. Are we allowed to change ratings during that season? I'd assume you would say no. So then that limits all the rating changes to during the few weeks between the end of this season and the start of the other season and the few weeks between the end of the other season and the start of this season. Assuming we even got solid input, it would be the only thing Ian could do for those entire few weeks in order to keep everything up to date.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2014 17:26:15 GMT
Isn't the whole point that this game mirrors real life? Isn't like half the fun of the league just bullshitting and arguing about basketball with other people who like basketball? If you take away mid-season rating changes you are gonna have a bunch of people be happy with their team just forget about them because they know there is nothing going on and then never log on again. If you make a trade only based on ratings you are stupid, you should always check the players real life stats or at least know whether they are bound to get a decrease. I've only been doing this for like 2 months and I can already tell you that. You getting upset because your guys are getting lowered is stupid, you knew that this was something that was likely to occur whether you like it or not. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it just wasn't going to happen. Protip: Don't trade for highly paid over thirty role players who weren't even that great to begin with. Yes the point of the league is to make it as close to the IRL NBA as possible. Bullshitting about the game is great. Everyone has opinions though. We all are here because we love the game of basketball. My opinion. .is that midseason rating changes are dumb. They should be done before the season or after. Or we should have two different times for rating changes during the season. Why? Because some players start out bad and end up playing extremely well. Or vice versa. Some IRL players just play well In the playoffs or big games. The season matters yes, but you see the best of players come playoff time. And you see the worst and players flaws. Of course not every team makes the playoffs as well. And I disagree that not having in season rating changes will slow the league down. I don't think that's why GMs leave. There's always enough going on. Also some GMs are active but do have a real life. Doesn't mean they will leave or should be replaced. Activity has nothing to do with ratings. Too much change at times may hurt a league as well. Why...because we base things off opinions..we don't have a true system to base ratings off of. And stats don't always prove ratings. Knowing the game and how players have previously played plays a part in it as well. I could go on about it but i say we either have two times to adjust ratings during the season or before or after the seadon. Picking and choosing players to rate and change does not work fairly. If some players get changes we should adjust them all. That keeps the league fair! ! Trades should be based off of 3 things. Talent, ratings and how each player fits your roster. Just because one gm likes younger players and builds that way doesn't mean that's the best way or wrong way. Everyone's here to win. I've been in many leagues and most GMs that win it all have the better ratings. Doesn't mean it's always going to be that way. But if you make trades early in the season and have high ratings and then midseasom your player ratings lower some...and your team starts losing. ..will you be happy or want to be active. Some GMs have been here for 2 months..Some 3 yesrs. When your active and have been here from the beginning and your team was a contender--to last plsce, no playoffs to back into the plsyoffs...shouldn't you be able to run your team the way you want. It just goes to show you care and In no way possible will you purposely fuck your team up just to leave. Getting upset over rating decreases--I have the right. We gave no system that is fair set up. I've been here 3 seasons with my team no matter what other GMs may think. I wouldn't have a problem with it if we had a system In place and if we wouldn't go about it all the wrong way In a season I'm trying to get back into the playoffs. Midseason even more so. "ProTip (LMFAO) -'-'opinions about if a player was ever good is based off of what?? Another thing that makes rating players in any league so hard to do is because each league has GMs of so many different ages. I just don't think it's fair to let the younger GMs rate older players. Seeing players play vs watching videos vs hearing people talk about plsyers... So much goes into this. ... but like I said I'm against midseason rating changes m unless we come up with a system. We need to rate either before or after the season, or maybe at 2 set times during the season. Not only that we must go through every player in our league not just a few!!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2014 17:40:11 GMT
It doesn't make sense to not allow rating changes mid season for a few reasons. It doesn't make sense because in real life, players don't just freeze in time from November 1st to the middle of June of whenever the playoffs end. That is an extremely long period of time and players are practicing, working out, and training to improve their skills all throughout their season. You can see it best with rookies, if you look at a guy in his first few games and then again at the end of the season you usually see massive improvement. The same things happens in reverse with declining players. The NBA season is extremely long and you can see players break down or hit a wall. If players' skill levels change during the season in real life then why shouldn't that be reflected here as well? It also doesn't make sense for admin purposes. Activity is a fraction of what it is during the season compared to after the season. You would rarely get solid discussion on players and everything would take significantly longer. Also following the season here we move over to the other league. Are we allowed to change ratings during that season? I'd assume you would say no. So then that limits all the rating changes to during the few weeks between the end of this season and the start of the other season and the few weeks between the end of the other season and the start of this season. Assuming we even got solid input, it would be the only thing Ian could do for those entire few weeks in order to keep everything up to date. Glad we finally agree on something:)
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Apr 1, 2014 17:50:18 GMT
Brandon Rush- Never avg more than 10ppg, currently averaging 2ppg on a terrible team Jason Terry- Was a shell last season with Boston 10 ppg and even worse this year 4ppg over 30 Mike Dunleavy- career 11 ppg over 30
All of these players except Dunleavy deserve their decreases, Terry probably should have got one before the season.
For Arron Afflalo- having a career year and has been on an upward trend for the past 4 years not over 30 Gerald Green- also having a career year and not over 30.
These players deserve increases, to have them keep their start of season ratings is dishonest and punishes the GMs who made the moves to acquire them thinking they would be good.
The system is that if someone shows a trend and people agree they either get moved up or moved down. You've been here for 3 years, how were you NOT expecting Jason Terry to get lowered? I mean are you serious?
As of right now there are a bit too many good-great players and bringing these guys down helps balance out the league making people realize they shouldn't be required to acquire 5 90 Ovr players to win. So it seems as if a lot of people are getting lowered.
Opinions on whether a player is good or not come from watching games and keeping up with the league.
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Post by Alex English on Apr 1, 2014 17:53:27 GMT
It doesn't make sense to not allow rating changes mid season for a few reasons. It doesn't make sense because in real life, players don't just freeze in time from November 1st to the middle of June of whenever the playoffs end. That is an extremely long period of time and players are practicing, working out, and training to improve their skills all throughout their season. You can see it best with rookies, if you look at a guy in his first few games and then again at the end of the season you usually see massive improvement. The same things happens in reverse with declining players. The NBA season is extremely long and you can see players break down or hit a wall. If players' skill levels change during the season in real life then why shouldn't that be reflected here as well? It also doesn't make sense for admin purposes. Activity is a fraction of what it is during the season compared to after the season. You would rarely get solid discussion on players and everything would take significantly longer. Also following the season here we move over to the other league. Are we allowed to change ratings during that season? I'd assume you would say no. So then that limits all the rating changes to during the few weeks between the end of this season and the start of the other season and the few weeks between the end of the other season and the start of this season. Assuming we even got solid input, it would be the only thing Ian could do for those entire few weeks in order to keep everything up to date. Glad we finally agree on something:) I think you misread my post, or maybe you are being sarcastic. I am strongly in favour of in season rating changes.
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Post by Ian Noble on Apr 1, 2014 18:02:15 GMT
I've been trying to trade for Kawhi Leonard recently. He's only rated 78 and there's no Stock Watch thread discussing a rating boost.
I'm pursuing Kawhi Leonard because I presume he will improve in the future. It doesn't need to be indicated to me by a Stock Watch thread.
By the same token I would not trade for, for instance, Stephen Jackson who's rated the same as Kawhi Leonard at 78. Stephen Jackson is quite clearly destined to decrease and/or retire soon, I don't need a Stock Watch thread to tell me that and, as far as I know, there isn't a thread yet.
These attitudes/approaches underpin the entire league. These are the foundations of D5.
Player rating decreases are inevitable. If you have a player whose rating gets decreased then it's your fault for acquiring/keeping them. If your knowledge of the NBA was better you'd realize that a decrease was approaching and you would've planned for that event.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Apr 1, 2014 18:05:50 GMT
Just to piggy back on Ian's statement I think people do a pretty good job of not overreacting and just slamming people down into the 60's or up into the 90's without sufficient evidence. And they also do a pretty decent job of knowing if someone is good and just buried on a depth chart (IE Omer Asik is probably rated higher than his stats this season but he's proven to be good and has since been just buried)
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2014 18:12:17 GMT
The leagues going to do what it wants. I have to live with it either wsy. I'm just stating what I've heard from around the league. Those that won't comment I can't prove and won't call out. But not stating my opinion would not be me. I think there should b a system in plsce. I just don't like those GMs that purposely go against my team and myself because I'm outspoken and not afraid to speak uo. Right or wrong I will always speak my opinion.
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Apr 1, 2014 18:14:35 GMT
Hey I'm very in favor of the in season stock watches. I just wanted to ask an off topic question. What's the other league that was referenced by Alex?
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Post by Alex English on Apr 1, 2014 18:17:54 GMT
Hey I'm very in favor of the in season stock watches. I just wanted to ask an off topic question. What's the other league that was referenced by Alex? This one: dynastyfive.boards.net/It's where we go in the off-season to burn a few months. Otherwise if we did seasons at a constant pace here we would move ahead of the real NBA by a few months every season.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Apr 1, 2014 18:26:01 GMT
JR, I did not specifically target your team. I specifically targeted old and worn-down players who are long-overdue for rating decreases. It is not my fault your team is full of those players. It is your fault. I'm trying to do more of these types of players from around the league but can only do so many at a time until opinions roll in on them.
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Apr 1, 2014 18:34:23 GMT
I'm somewhere in-between everyone in here. I agree with JR that it is completely unfair to arbitrarily decide to do rating increases/decreases some days. I understand that it fluctuates based on Ian's free time, but we need some sort of system to it. Maybe once a month, once every two months, etc. By just having ratings change arbitrarily when Ian gets free time, it is impossible to make any sort of trades based on expected ratings unless you are willing to wait an unknown amount of time for a guy to get an increase or decrease.
I also agree with JR that it is unfair to target specific teams in the stock watch section. If you want to go through the league and post a lot of players (as Walt is now doing), that is fine, but don't target a specific team just because they might steal your playoff spot.
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Apr 1, 2014 18:36:34 GMT
I encountered this same scenario of being targeting after I won my championship in the old D5. I had all of my players targeted by teams who wanted to knock me out of the standings. I can say from personal experience that it is extremely frustrating, especially when you don't believe your players deserve decreases at all.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2014 18:38:11 GMT
JR, I did not specifically target your team. I specifically targeted old and worn-down players who are long-overdue for rating decreases. It is not my fault your team is full of those players. It is your fault. I'm trying to do more of these types of players from around the league but can only do so many at a time until opinions roll in on them. That's ok I'll take your word on it. Just odd that you posted all my players at once. I'm sure it wasn't obvious. But your right. It's my fault. But it's my team as well. For 3 seasons. I've been active. So when you guys judge trades I make pet me make them and I won't care how you guys run the league or change rules. I just want my team to be my team. No matter fail or not I'm not going anywhere. I think I've proven that. That's all I ask.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Apr 1, 2014 19:04:39 GMT
I did start with your team b/c of the high concentration of those types of players. It's unrealistic and unfair to the league for your team to be playing the way it is to be honest. Your team should probably be dead last or a bottom 5 at best, not competing for the playoffs. Based on the players you actually have on your team.
That said, I am putting up a ton more.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2014 19:07:29 GMT
I did start with your team b/c of the high concentration of those types of players. It's unrealistic and unfair to the league for your team to be playing the way it is to be honest. Your team should probably be dead last or a bottom 5 at best, not competing for the playoffs. Based on the players you actually have on your team. That said, I am putting up a ton more. It is fair. It's my team. No one's over 80. If we are winning so b it.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Apr 1, 2014 19:09:01 GMT
It is not right that retired players and guys playing 10mpg or less In Real Life are leading the charge towards the playoffs. They should all be in the low 70's, not mid-high 70's. Unfair to the other teams who actually build based on real life and not ratings.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2014 19:16:55 GMT
It is not right that retired players and guys playing 10mpg or less In Real Life are leading the charge towards the playoffs. They should all be in the low 70's, not mid-high 70's. Unfair to the other teams who actually build based on real life and not ratings. It is fair. That's how i built my tean. That's why i feel I'm being treated unfair. At least now the truth comes out.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Apr 1, 2014 19:17:50 GMT
The truth is you built around retired players and highly ineffectual players, and your team's record should show that.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Apr 1, 2014 22:46:42 GMT
I don't get it, we knocked Stoudamire down by like 10 points and you didn't hear Troy complaining. I mean he's probably wasn't just clamoring to put in his own stock watch thread about him, but it's not like he didn't see it coming. All of the players on your team that got a ratings decrease were completely overrated in the game compared to their actual performance in real life.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2014 23:39:09 GMT
Billy your team just lost to me. So shhh...
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Post by Shaquille O'Neal on Apr 1, 2014 23:59:31 GMT
on stoudamire's case, i think in my opinion Gms should look at the player 3months from now, 6 months and even a year from now. it was a bad move when i traded bosh for him but i think as a Gm we should be careful on our assets and we should know the value of our players.
stockwatch was made so that the league will be close to reality as possible.
you cant be a champion with a bunch of old players playing limited mins in real life.
if i were you you should start rebuilding as early as possible by trading yourong contract to expirings or getting picks on contending teams for your players.
also dont trade young players/picks for a player who will just be buried on your depth chart.
you've been here for 3 years JR you should already know how the league works and just submit to how the game is played, and adapt and make a change on how you play your team.
by the way, i flipped my stoudamire for a bunch of good starting caliber players + role players who's gonna help me in the years to come and also has + value.
and lastly dont always look to be a win now team, wait for LBJ to retire first and thats the only time you should make moves to be a contending team. haha
but then again im troy Bolton, im the best GM ever. (evil laugh)
(sorry im bored)
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2014 8:01:37 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2014 8:29:56 GMT
Ratings for my players I got from the video. ..
Better ratings then what we keep coming up with. Like I said personal opinions and personal agenda contributes to gm ratings for players using stock watch! !
Isaiah Thomas 80 JJ Barea 77 Derek Fisher 76 Jason Terry 77 Trevor Ariza 79 Brandon Rush 77 Mike Miller 63 Nick Young 76 Gerald Henderson Tayshaun Prince 75 Mike Dunleavy 75 Andray Blatche 75 Al Harrington 75 Channing Frye 76 Andres Biendris
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Post by Danny Longley on Apr 2, 2014 9:30:49 GMT
Probably a bit off from the current discussion, but this still does fall under Ratings.
I do wish that the range of our ratings was a bit wider - currently, only absolute scrubs or draft picks fall below 70, and it feels like there's very little separating tiers right now.
I'd personally like to see a system wherein falling under 70 isn't a death sentence for a player's D5 career, and where there's a bit more separation in the top.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Apr 2, 2014 12:58:22 GMT
I agree overall Danny. Especially at the top for me. I think factoring in everything for these players, there should be more guys in the 90's to help spread out that range. And, I think as far as this ratings system goes, Durant and LeBron are really like 105 and 110 on the scale, but it maxes out at 99 so that's where we put them, or damn close to it.
I'd put them both at 99 and just make all their ratings how they should be. They'll be rated even higher than a 99 as far as their attributes go, but their rating will still be 99.
Then I'd put guys like CP3 even higher than his current proposed bump to 94, I'd put him in the 96-97 range. This opens up more space for other amazing players to push into the 90's. Dirk should probably still be like a 93-94 if CP3 is up at a 96-97. He's playing incredible.
Anyway, seems to be something Ian is completely opposed to but I think your point is that the overwhelming majority of players in this league are between about a 74 and an 85 or 86. That should be spread out a bit.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Apr 2, 2014 13:39:00 GMT
Ratings for my players I got from the video. .. Better ratings then what we keep coming up with. Like I said personal opinions and personal agenda contributes to gm ratings for players using stock watch! ! Isaiah Thomas 80 JJ Barea 77 Derek Fisher 76 Jason Terry 77 deserved a decrease, old and avging 4ppg Trevor Ariza 79 Brandon Rush 77 Under performing since his injury 4ppg Mike Miller 63 old as heck destroyed back for the past 2 years Nick Young 76 Gerald Henderson Tayshaun Prince 75 Old averaging 5 ppg Mike Dunleavy 75 Andray Blatche 75 Al Harrington 75 old under performing for 2 straight seasons Channing Frye 76 Andres Biendris Seriously has he even averaged more than 1 mpg for the past 3 years? It's not our fault that you signed or traded for 7 players who probably play a combined 36 minutes per game total. And that's with Mike Miller averaging 20 minutes.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Apr 2, 2014 14:04:40 GMT
JR Honestly I don't think your team is the worst ever assembled, though you just hurt it trading away Afflalo...
But if you would put out IT2/Nick Young/Ariza/Frye/Blatche that's not a good team but at least it's realistic. You keep Barea/Fisher/Henderson/Prince/Dunleavy/Harrington as your main bench guys. Again, not great but realistic.
The problem I have is the players on your team who are rated like solid starters in the league but who are actually back end bench guys and veteran "presence" type of player, but you are able to rely on them heavily due to their ratings being completely overrated.
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