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Post by Ian Noble on May 25, 2013 14:30:44 GMT
Team Options that you pick up will not count against your salary cap this Off Season.
In future seasons though, Team Options that you pick up WILL COUNT against your salary cap, so factor them into your planning.
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on May 25, 2013 14:55:11 GMT
Why do team options not count against your cap?
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Post by Ian Noble on May 25, 2013 15:17:20 GMT
Why do team options not count against your cap? On the League Salaries Database? - because you might decline them. or this Off Season? - because I haven't given enough warning that they would count against the cap to make that a rule now. |
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Post by Alex English on May 25, 2013 16:22:31 GMT
In future seasons though, Team Options that you pick up WILL COUNT against your salary cap, so factor them into your planning. Fantastic. Great rule adjustment. |
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 27, 2024 0:28:27 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2013 16:31:36 GMT
I don't even see how it doesn't count against your cap in the first place?
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on May 25, 2013 18:29:06 GMT
I don't even see how it doesn't count against your cap in the first place? That's what I'm saying... this is actually a HUGE deal. Some teams have upwards of $20 mil in team options, and it is completely unfair to let them compete in free agency with the teams who actually have real cap space. You may not have explicitly stated that team options count against cap, but I think it is pretty much general knowledge and an understood rule that they do. For that matter, why do player options count against cap then? You can't say one doesn't count without saying the other does. Either way, its the team's choice whether to accept or decline a team option. If you give teams free passes for players with options, then you are essentially punishing teams who actually planned ahead and created real cap space. |
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Post by Ian Noble on May 25, 2013 19:00:23 GMT
For that matter, why do player options count against cap then? You can't say one doesn't count without saying the other does. Good point Josh, I'll tackle this one too. |
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Post by Alex English on May 25, 2013 19:21:45 GMT
With how quickly things can change in a sim league I'm not sure it is too late to change it for this year. But whatever, if the issue is addressed for next year at the latest then it's not the end of the world.
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Glenn Robinson
 Milwaukee Bucks
Starter
Posts: 1,226
Nov 22, 2024 4:29:32 GMT
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Post by Glenn Robinson on May 25, 2013 20:45:27 GMT
I think most people know team options count against the cap once accepted. Just have a week period for teams to accept their team options and have player options factored in as well. Then let free agency begin and you have the cap you have after player and team options have been factored in. Otherwise you are just giving more ammo to those who have tons of player and team options that haven't planned their cap accordingly.
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Post by Ian Noble on May 25, 2013 21:37:42 GMT
I think most people know team options count against the cap once accepted. Just have a week period for teams to accept their team options and have player options factored in as well. Then let free agency begin and you have the cap you have after player and team options have been factored in. Otherwise you are just giving more ammo to those who have tons of player and team options that haven't planned their cap accordingly. Agreed. I'm not doing that this year though because I know lots of GMs have planned ahead with TOs not counting against the cap. |
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on May 25, 2013 23:11:38 GMT
I think most people know team options count against the cap once accepted. Just have a week period for teams to accept their team options and have player options factored in as well. Then let free agency begin and you have the cap you have after player and team options have been factored in. Otherwise you are just giving more ammo to those who have tons of player and team options that haven't planned their cap accordingly. Agreed. I'm not doing that this year though because I know lots of GMs have planned ahead with TOs not counting against the cap. I really think you should reconsider this. There may be 2 or 3 GMs who planned for TOs not to count, but there's 27 or 28 who planned for them to count. To be blunt... all you're going to be doing is rewarding teams with high salaries (likely good teams) and punishing teams with low salaries (likely bad teams). |
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 27, 2024 0:28:27 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2013 23:33:51 GMT
I think most people know team options count against the cap once accepted. Just have a week period for teams to accept their team options and have player options factored in as well. Then let free agency begin and you have the cap you have after player and team options have been factored in. Otherwise you are just giving more ammo to those who have tons of player and team options that haven't planned their cap accordingly. Agreed. I'm not doing that this year though because I know lots of GMs have planned ahead with TOs not counting against the cap. I didn't even know we were doing that because IT MAKES ZERO SENSE! |
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Post by Clyde Drexler on May 25, 2013 23:39:26 GMT
Yeah I was expecting TO's to take effect before free agency. I may have been able to have more cap space last off-season then haha
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Post by Alex English on May 26, 2013 0:07:33 GMT
Haha, it seems like everyone already planned on the way it should be. Can at least one GM who planned based on team options not counting post in this thread?
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Chris Mullin
 Golden State Warriors
Starter
Posts: 1,303
Feb 19, 2024 21:58:28 GMT
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Post by Chris Mullin on Jun 5, 2013 19:55:06 GMT
Bumping this thread. I know several GMs have already voiced their opinions and I agree with the majority on this issue.
IRL team options are already factored into a team's salary cap situation before they ever go out and sign free agents. It just doesn't make any sense to not pick up Team/Player options BEFORE free agency begins.
This is why players that have Player Options either pick them up or opt out to be a Free Agent well before Free Agency ever happens. The same is true for the team when the player has a Team Option. They have to pick up it before going into Free Agency because if they don't they are spending money they don't have in the 1st place and thus would put teams over the cap if they did this IRL.
Long story short, it allows teams that don't actually have cap space to spend money like they do.
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Glenn Robinson
Milwaukee Bucks
Starter
Posts: 1,226
Nov 22, 2024 4:29:32 GMT
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Post by Glenn Robinson on Jun 5, 2013 20:16:14 GMT
Agreed. It's pretty obvious most Gm's know about the Player/Team options. Lets have a couple weeks before free agency starts to accept/decline player and team options (team options will be decided by committee) and then we start free agency. I don't think it's fair to give teams extra money they don't have to make signings while having team and player options not count against them until after free agency. Just makes no sense.
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Chris Mullin
Golden State Warriors
Starter
Posts: 1,303
Feb 19, 2024 21:58:28 GMT
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Post by Chris Mullin on Jun 11, 2013 18:46:17 GMT
*Bump for more discussion. I think this needs more discussion before it creates a major problem
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Post by Alex English on Jun 11, 2013 18:50:38 GMT
*Bump for more discussion. I think this needs more discussion before it creates a major problem We are too far gone. Maybe when it was first brought up it could have been changed but not anymore. I agree they should count but the only reason I traded Bosh for Lopez was because I knew they wouldn't count. Will that trade be reversed? I know Dallas would never accept the Parsons trade if they counted. How many other trades were made on the basis of team options not counting? |
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 27, 2024 0:28:27 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2013 19:23:52 GMT
*Bump for more discussion. I think this needs more discussion before it creates a major problem We are too far gone. Maybe when it was first brought up it could have been changed but not anymore. I agree they should count but the only reason I traded Bosh for Lopez was because I knew they wouldn't count. Will that trade be reversed? I know Dallas would never accept the Parsons trade if they counted. How many other trades were made on the basis of team options not counting? Yeah I was thinking that when Duncan contract was up. That would be messed up if the rule changed now. |
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Jun 11, 2013 19:25:17 GMT
*Bump for more discussion. I think this needs more discussion before it creates a major problem We are too far gone. Maybe when it was first brought up it could have been changed but not anymore. I agree they should count but the only reason I traded Bosh for Lopez was because I knew they wouldn't count. Will that trade be reversed? I know Dallas would never accept the Parsons trade if they counted. How many other trades were made on the basis of team options not counting? Not really, I don't think teams should rewarded for trying to game the system, and I'm sure 95% of the league would agree. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter how it affects individual teams, it matters how it affects the league as a whole; and I think it indisputably affects D5 in a negative way and completely abolishes any realism that we hoped to achieve in free agency. |
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Jun 11, 2013 19:28:41 GMT
*Bump for more discussion. I think this needs more discussion before it creates a major problem We are too far gone. Maybe when it was first brought up it could have been changed but not anymore. I agree they should count but the only reason I traded Bosh for Lopez was because I knew they wouldn't count. Will that trade be reversed? I know Dallas would never accept the Parsons trade if they counted. How many other trades were made on the basis of team options not counting? Plus, using that argument, I would have traded differently ALL YEAR if I had known that team options don't count towards cap space. Where do I file my complaint? |
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Chris Mullin
Golden State Warriors
Starter
Posts: 1,303
Feb 19, 2024 21:58:28 GMT
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Post by Chris Mullin on Jun 11, 2013 19:42:00 GMT
*Bump for more discussion. I think this needs more discussion before it creates a major problem We are too far gone. Maybe when it was first brought up it could have been changed but not anymore. I agree they should count but the only reason I traded Bosh for Lopez was because I knew they wouldn't count. Will that trade be reversed? I know Dallas would never accept the Parsons trade if they counted. How many other trades were made on the basis of team options not counting? Why are we too far gone to fix a major flaw in the league's Off Season Free Agency rules that will hurt the realism/competitive balance of the league? Regular seasons hasn't ended yet |
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Post by Alex English on Jun 11, 2013 19:48:51 GMT
We are too far gone. Maybe when it was first brought up it could have been changed but not anymore. I agree they should count but the only reason I traded Bosh for Lopez was because I knew they wouldn't count. Will that trade be reversed? I know Dallas would never accept the Parsons trade if they counted. How many other trades were made on the basis of team options not counting? Why are we too far gone to fix a major flaw in the league's Off Season Free Agency rules that will hurt the realism/competitive balance of the league? Regular seasons hasn't ended yet That's how it was last year and the league didn't burst in to flames or anything. We're just fine. Plus, it has already been changed for next season. It's true the regular season hasn't ended yet, but we have passed the trade deadline. |
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Post by Ian Noble on Jun 11, 2013 19:53:25 GMT
Team Options have never counted against the salary cap for any year that D5 has operated ever. It's only because I stopped that from happening that this discussion began. Also it would be incredibly stupid to change that now, for so many reasons. Therefore it's not really worth debating, so stop it please  |
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Jackie Moon
Former Pelicans GM
Sophomore
Posts: 281
Nov 11, 2013 18:17:55 GMT
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Post by Jackie Moon on Jun 11, 2013 19:56:59 GMT
I believe it should be changed before the offseason because people are opening abusing it now. DEN mentioned how he was going to use the system to his advantage in one of his trade threads.
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Post by Alex English on Jun 11, 2013 20:03:45 GMT
I believe it should be changed before the offseason because people are opening abusing it now. DEN mentioned how he was going to use the system to his advantage in one of his trade threads. Well those are the rules. Why wouldn't I take advantage of it if it will improve my team? It's not like this rule was a secret and they apply equally to everyone, so how is it abuse? Besides, it's clearly not up for discussion based on Ian's post. |
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Post by Ian Noble on Jun 11, 2013 21:24:02 GMT
Yeah it's not abuse, it's a tactic, honestly.
We went 4 seasons over at the old D5, we're approaching our 3rd season here, it's been a tactic for a long time and one that's never been questioned before.
I know I actively pursued guys with TOs for this very reason in the past, but next season it's changing for the first time and that's that.
Edit: It's not like it's some insidious plot or something, it's just the way things are.
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Post by Dominique Wilkins on Jun 11, 2013 21:37:07 GMT
If PO's/TO's were to be done prior to off season free agency starting that would help get rid of the problem.
PO are decided by council
TO are decided by teams
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Jackie Moon
Former Pelicans GM
Sophomore
Posts: 281
Nov 11, 2013 18:17:55 GMT
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Post by Jackie Moon on Jun 11, 2013 23:26:34 GMT
I believe it should be changed before the offseason because people are opening abusing it now. DEN mentioned how he was going to use the system to his advantage in one of his trade threads. Well those are the rules. Why wouldn't I take advantage of it if it will improve my team? It's not like this rule was a secret and they apply equally to everyone, so how is it abuse? Besides, it's clearly not up for discussion based on Ian's post. Its nothing personal, I just feel like openly admitting to abusing a rule everyone agrees needs changed is wrong. I personally had no idea they didnt count against the cap that until people brought it up lol |
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Glenn Robinson
Milwaukee Bucks
Starter
Posts: 1,226
Nov 22, 2024 4:29:32 GMT
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Post by Glenn Robinson on Jun 11, 2013 23:39:44 GMT
Just drop the discussion. No sense in beating a dead horse. Ian said it will change next offseason. Until then there is nothing more to say. It's an odd rule, I agree, but it's how it's been done in years past and this will be the last offseason of it. Might as well plan accordingly.
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