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Post by Alex English on Jun 28, 2023 2:37:13 GMT
 Washington Wizards trade:WAS 2027 1st  Denver Nuggets trade:20th pick
I accept. I'm fully punting on the rest of this draft. I have no idea what to expect from a 2027 pick, assuming the Wizards keep things together it probably won't be a great one, but I'll roll the dice. Hopefully four years from now my team will be competitive and benefit even more from a guy on a cheap rookie deal. |
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Post by Kareem Abdul-Jabbar on Jun 28, 2023 2:57:01 GMT
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Post by James Kay on Jun 28, 2023 3:22:43 GMT
I'd like to see a little more justification from Kareem other than a mere acceptance. Shouldn't you wait a pick or two to see who gets drafted ahead of this pick. This seems a bit impulsive. What if your target isn't even there in 3 picks?
This is the only team to never make the D5 playoffs, but you have been acquiring a lot of young talent over the past few years. Is this the time to go all in with your picks? This team was KAT, Scoot and 2-3 solid upcoming-sophomores. Now you've traded all your tradable picks for KPJ and the 20th overall.
What's the plan?
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Post by Kareem Abdul-Jabbar on Jun 28, 2023 3:44:58 GMT
I'd like to see a little more justification from Kareem other than a mere acceptance. Shouldn't you wait a pick or two to see who gets drafted ahead of this pick. This seems a bit impulsive. What if your target isn't even there in 3 picks? This is the only team to never make the D5 playoffs, but you have been acquiring a lot of young talent over the past few years. Is this the time to go all in with your picks? This team was KAT, Scoot and 2-3 solid upcoming-sophomores. Now you've traded all your tradable picks for KPJ and the 20th overall. What's the plan? The Plan is simple. I need to force myself to contend. As long as I have a 1st in the incoming draft I can't really drag myself to contend. You get me right? ^^ |
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Post by Alex English on Jun 28, 2023 3:50:04 GMT
I understand wanting to ask some questions, but Washington has a strong young core and $40 million in cap space for free agency. There is no possible way this trade can be rejected when we just accepted this one yesterday: dynasty5ive.proboards.com/thread/20461/okc-portland |
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Post by James Kay on Jun 28, 2023 4:02:25 GMT
I understand wanting to make a mark and ask some questions, but Washington has a strong young core and $40 million in cap space for free agency. There is no possible way this trade can be rejected when we just accepted this one yesterday: dynasty5ive.proboards.com/thread/20461/okc-portlandI strongly argued for rejecting that trade, so I’m not sure I see the relevance. Don’t see what’s the harm in asking Kareem for some justification - that used to be pretty typical in trades. |
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Post by Kareem Abdul-Jabbar on Jun 28, 2023 4:09:46 GMT
I understand wanting to make a mark and ask some questions, but Washington has a strong young core and $40 million in cap space for free agency. There is no possible way this trade can be rejected when we just accepted this one yesterday: dynasty5ive.proboards.com/thread/20461/okc-portlandI strongly argued for rejecting that trade, so I’m not sure I see the relevance. Don’t see what’s the harm in asking Kareem for some justification - that used to be pretty typical in trades. Asking me is fine. No worries. ^^ |
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Post by Alex English on Jun 28, 2023 4:12:31 GMT
I understand wanting to make a mark and ask some questions, but Washington has a strong young core and $40 million in cap space for free agency. There is no possible way this trade can be rejected when we just accepted this one yesterday: dynasty5ive.proboards.com/thread/20461/okc-portlandI strongly argued for rejecting that trade, so I’m not sure I see the relevance. Don’t see what’s the harm in asking Kareem for some justification - that used to be pretty typical in trades. No harm at all. I don't see any harm in defending the trade from my point of view either. |
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Post by Ian Noble on Jun 28, 2023 13:49:45 GMT
I accept
I agree with James there's some flimsy methodology going on from Kareem, but with Washington's recent draft luck and roster composition now it's hard to feel too worried they're endangering their long term interests with this deal.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jun 28, 2023 14:29:59 GMT
I'd like to see a little more justification from Kareem other than a mere acceptance. Shouldn't you wait a pick or two to see who gets drafted ahead of this pick. This seems a bit impulsive. What if your target isn't even there in 3 picks? This is the only team to never make the D5 playoffs, but you have been acquiring a lot of young talent over the past few years. Is this the time to go all in with your picks? This team was KAT, Scoot and 2-3 solid upcoming-sophomores. Now you've traded all your tradable picks for KPJ and the 20th overall. What's the plan? The Plan is simple. I need to force myself to contend. As long as I have a 1st in the incoming draft I can't really drag myself to contend. You get me right? ^^ This honestly feels like sarcasm/fake justification. But, personally, I can't get myself to a reject on this, even though it puts Washington on my "watch this shit" list along with OKC.  Love you both, ijs. We've had managers do some crazy shit before, we're just trying to avoid that. Granted, those other Hall-of-Shamers left the league/team, and maybe there's less risk of that here. But still, the league is better if we all know that all of us have our own plan. AND, that plan should involve trying to win at some point in the next 2-3 years, tbh. |
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jun 28, 2023 14:30:07 GMT
Oh, accept.
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Post by Ian Noble on Jun 28, 2023 20:16:40 GMT
Trade passed and processed.
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Post by Ian Noble on Jun 28, 2023 20:16:49 GMT
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Post by James Kay on Jun 28, 2023 21:17:11 GMT
Trade passed and processed. Is this actually passed already? I thought 3 accepts required. |
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Jun 29, 2023 2:32:26 GMT
I will accept this one to get it to 3. I do think Denver is winning the trade, but with the inherent uncertainty surrounding a pick 4 years in the future, and Washington’s seemingly competent young team in place, I don’t think there’s enough here to reject.
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Post by James Kay on Jun 29, 2023 3:06:26 GMT
I was thinking I might be able to avoid putting a vote here, but since Bryan Colangelo hasn't voted yet, I'm going to have to post my reject, as I will be asleep when the timer for pick 20 expires - and I want to make clear that this trade hasn't officially passed and the timer for pick 20 should be tolled. Apologies to all drafters and GMs invested in seeing the draft continue smoothly, especially as this will likely be a token dissent. Alex makes a good point that a reject here isn't logically consistent with the rest acceptance of the OKC-POR trade. However, I wasn't a part of the TC until very recently, and I would've voted to reject that trade. So, yes, this rejection is at odds with that trade, but I don't feel comfortable giving an accept here just because of precedent that I wasn't a part of. I can only try and vote consistently for myself. I want to avoid a lengthy post getting bogged down in scrutiny of the value being exchanged here. Ultimately, I just don't think that Washington has yet established themselves as a winning team to justify shipping off all of their tradable picks. As I mentioned above, Washington is the only D5 team to never make the D5 playoffs. My rejection is based upon the possibility of Washington continuing to exercise dominion over the bottom of the Eastern Conference. I vote reject because I don't believe that Washington as a franchise has earned the right to risk the team's future - for the sake of the league, and for the sake of any future GM, whether that's Kareem or someone else. ( I do hope it's Kareem, but any one of us could leave any time). Reject. |
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Post by Alex English on Jun 29, 2023 3:20:11 GMT
Longstanding GM. Clear plan. Multiple 80+ players on the roster. Accept. Literally all of the above applies to Kareem. You can argue 'clear plan' vs 'clear articulation of that plan' but Kareem clearly knows what he's trying to achieve. He simply refused to trade the #2 pick, and we know he got tons of offers. He clearly has a direction in mind. He's been around for 8 years. There's no reason to believe he's about to leave or stop being committed, especially now that his team is getting good. |
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Post by James Kay on Jun 29, 2023 3:41:26 GMT
I'm going to vote to reject this. Protecting the worst teams in the league from giving away future picks might be the last remaining ground the trade committee still holds. Given OKCs roster I think it's very unlikely that things will be turned around in only 3 seasons. This may realistically be the 21st pick for a 2025 top 5 pick. Historically, picks in the 20s rarely turn into really impactful players. That 2025 pick is so much more valuable. |
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Post by Alex English on Jun 29, 2023 3:48:33 GMT
I'm going to vote to reject this. Protecting the worst teams in the league from giving away future picks might be the last remaining ground the trade committee still holds. Given OKCs roster I think it's very unlikely that things will be turned around in only 3 seasons. This may realistically be the 21st pick for a 2025 top 5 pick. Historically, picks in the 20s rarely turn into really impactful players. That 2025 pick is so much more valuable. Honestly valid criticism to my vote on the other OKC trade, but doesn't hold for this one. Washington is not one of the worst teams in the league and their future picks cannot be realistically projected to be top 5 picks. |
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Post by James Kay on Jun 29, 2023 3:52:05 GMT
the return looks pretty shitty, but the risk with these picks is huge for Washington. This looks like it's setting up for more long term pain for what's already the perennially worst team in D5. On the other hand, does it really matter if Kareem wants to see this through? He's been in D5 for 6 years, how much risk is there in him abandoning the team? I think it's a good thing he's doing something different after things clearly weren't working. I think everyone agrees this isn't the right answer though. I guess I reject. If these picks are on the block for longer then a much better trade should come along. This is D5, picks are valued like crazy This is you less than 2 years ago |
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Post by James Kay on Jun 29, 2023 3:53:30 GMT
Some notable quotes from trade rejects you made over the previous two years.
"the risk with these picks is huge for Washington"
"the perennially worst team in D5"
"picks are valued like crazy"
"picks in the 20s rarely turn into really impactful players."
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Post by Alex English on Jun 29, 2023 4:01:11 GMT
"the risk with these picks is huge for Washington" Valid point when Washington sucked. The team looks pretty good now though. "the perennially worst team in D5" Not relevant to their future. "picks are valued like crazy" True. "picks in the 20s rarely turn into really impactful players." Also true, which is why this trade likely ends up resulting in two irrelevant players being traded for each other. Weirdest game of mad libs I've ever played. I don't see how any of it leads to a good argument to reject this trade. |
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Post by James Kay on Jun 29, 2023 4:10:36 GMT
"the risk with these picks is huge for Washington" Valid point when Washington sucked. The team looks pretty good now though. "the perennially worst team in D5" Not relevant to their future.
Sorry but I don't agree. Sure, the team looks like it has some promise, but it's fundamentally the same team as two years ago with two rookies and a guy who hasn't played an NBA game yet. Granted, Scoot was #2 and looks great, but given that this team is "the perennially worst team in D5," I'd like to see maybe a single winning season before concluding they've finally turned it around. There's simply no need for WAS to be moving their 27 pick right now. And their past is absolutely relevant to their future. What? Past performance is the best predictor of future performance. This isn't mad libs, Alex, it's your own words and arguments that apply equally to this trade whether you want to admit it or not. |
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Post by James Kay on Jun 29, 2023 4:14:14 GMT
Like, they still haven't had a winning season in all of D5 history and yet you're conveniently declaring them free of the "perennially worst team in D5" moniker that you yourself applied? That's all it takes for you?
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Post by James Kay on Jun 29, 2023 4:21:57 GMT
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Post by Alex English on Jun 29, 2023 4:31:53 GMT
This isn't mad libs, Alex, it's your own words and arguments that apply equally to this trade whether you want to admit it or not. I don't know man, I think you've picked a weird hill to die on here. Like "picks are valued like crazy" is a generalized statement that says little to nothing about this trade. Ignoring what the Wizards team actually looks like right now and basing everything on past teams doesn't make sense. I think any honest and realistic projection of the Wizards roster would have them as a perennial playoff team. Either way, you've cast your vote. I don't think either of us are saying anything new here. It is what it is. |
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Post by Tom Izzo on Jun 29, 2023 11:11:42 GMT
I will accept this one to get it to 3. I do think Denver is winning the trade, but with the inherent uncertainty surrounding a pick 4 years in the future, and Washington’s seemingly competent young team in place, I don’t think there’s enough here to reject. Josh has gone full Trump. If he doesn't win the trade committee vote this year he'll claim it was fraudulent and that crazy Tom Izzo created dozens of accounts to vote for himself. That's right. This is my campaign announcement thread as well. Izzo for TC 2023 to stand for justice for managers to do as they generally please for their teams. Stand against the Kay/Barber mutinous dictatorship and vote for #freedom this election cycle. "Fairness, freedom, fandom - The Izzo Triple Double Promise" Choose Freedom. Choose Izzo. |
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Post by Ian Noble on Jun 29, 2023 17:32:18 GMT
Moving back to Trading because this is technically not passed yet. I'm asking Bryan Colangelo to come out of temporary retirement to give his last verdict |
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Post by Ian Noble on Jun 29, 2023 17:36:00 GMT
Also I hate to say it but I do think this might be rejectable and I'll leave my final verdict until tomorrow!
Washington's been extremely lucky and moved up in the Draft two years running, their success has been based on luck, and there's nothing certain about their future. One of our most experienced former EOTY GMs has swooped in like a predator to take away their 2027 1st at the first possibly opportunity - that's 4 years from now - and for all we know Washington might desperately need that pick when it comes up. Washington's recent draft luck netted them Ivey, Keegan Murray and now Scoot and paired it with KAT and Wiggins, but to me that's still very much a work in progress.
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Jun 29, 2023 17:50:47 GMT
Ian said this was passed and processed and moved it to the Accepted section. Kareem made a draft choice based on this. Regardless of the vote, I think we should consider this trade passed and approved because it is too late to change it at this point.
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