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Post by Jerry West on May 8, 2022 10:54:07 GMT
Giddey literally missed 6+ weeks with a hip injury, your personal opinion on whether or not he was actually healed during that time doesn’t matter. We have set a precedent, it's not personal opinion. It's the repeat of a situation that happened last year and anyone who doesn't have blind hate and bias towards our injury system due to the Kawhi situation can see it |
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Post by Jerry West on May 9, 2022 12:32:05 GMT
List of players listed as "injured" for OKC: Theo Maledon, Poku, JRE, Lindy Watters, Aaron Wiggins, Ty Jerome, Mike Muscala, Derrick Favors, Kenrich Williams, Darius Bazley, Lu Dort, SGA, Josh Giddey. The only player on that list that got an actual injury was Dort who had to get surgery, the rest was for tanking reasons. They literally sitted out the entire team! Saying that Giddey wasn't shut down for tanking reasons is disingenuous. The only reason Josh Giddey was shut down earlier due to a "hip soreness" that lasted 7 weeks (of which btw, there is no precedent) was because he wins more games than the likes of Lindy Watters or Theo Maledon. A precedent was set last year, and this isn't even a different NBA team, it was on the SAME team, who had the same problem of a strong start that wouldn't allow them to have high lottery odds, and used these tactics AGAIN in order to improve their pick, and given that the precedent exists, it would only be fair for Giddey, who once again, is on the same team as Horford was, shouldn't be on the IR.
Fun fact, here's the list of players that played for the Thunder in the last game of the season, and how many players they played in this season:
Georgios Kalaitzakis (13 / Started 4) - Only played for the Thunder in the last 4 games, averaged 41.5 minutes, including a 48 minute game.
Zavier Simpson (4 / Started 4) - Only played for the Thunder in the last 4 games, averaged 43.5 minutes
Jaylen Hoard (7 /Started 5) - Only played for the Thunder in the last 7 games, averaged 34.3 minutes Vit Krejci (30 / Started 8) Isaiah Roby (45 / Started 28) Melvin Frazier (3 / Started 0) - Only played for the Thunder in the last 3 games, averaged 40 minutes, his TS% was 31
Giddey was out 44 days, the deadline for D5 being set at 42 (if you consider 6 weeks exactly, if you consider a month and a half it would be 45 days and he wouldn't even be out), if the season was 1 game shorter or if Giddey had played 1 more game before being shut down, this conversation wouldn't even exist. Was he going to comeback and play some games with Georgios Kalaitzakis and Melvin Frazier? For the entire month of April the best player on the Thunder was Isaiah Roby, for obvious tanking reasons. Why would we expect Giddey to comeback in that situation?
Bazley and Tre Mann didn't play since March 26, SGA since March 21, hell even Poku was sitted out to make sure they lost to Detroit, played 1 game back, and got benched again for putting up a triple-double. And those are the younger guys on the team! The season was over for every player on the actual Thunder roster in March, which by then Giddey wouldn't even eligible for the IR, and Giddey, because of 2 days, will be out when he clearly was being held out for tanking reasons and a precedent was set on the same team last year? I'm sorry but that's unfair.
I'm sorry |
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Post by Ian Noble on May 9, 2022 19:06:16 GMT
Jerry West it is quite clear the Thunder are resting him so they can tank. I'm not sure how they get away with it, given I remember a decade ago the Spurs getting fined for giving Tim Duncan too much rest, which was an actual legitimate reason from a team trying to win. Even the "NBC Sports Edge" website we use says ( link): The worst part for me is that this presents a gigantic headache for an injury system. Clearly the player is not injured. Clearly it's nothing to do with the player's fault to be out, this time it's the team's choice. It hearkens back to me saying earlier in this thread: Kyrie and Simmons (and Holmes) were out for personal reasons that they were controlling and therefore should be taken out, however with Al Horford last season and now with Giddey - it's something outside the player's personal control. Maybe that's how we draw the line for future? But I worry immensely about changes like that because they're immediately manipulated by the first GM trying to benefit.
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on May 9, 2022 19:19:38 GMT
Giddey is literally out with an injury for 6+ weeks, how is this even a conversation lol. It feels like Jerry is just trying to yell the loudest/most to confuse the actual situation. There's no evidence at all that he is healed from his hip injury. His own coach even said his hip injury is the reason he didn't return: Coach Mark Daigneault made the announcement during a session with reporters before Saturday’s game. Giddey hasn’t played since Feb. 24, and Daigneault said the “return-to-play portion” of his rehab process would last longer than the two weeks that are left in the regular season.
“It’s a tricky injury that’s a little unpredictable,” Daigneault said. “I would not say it met or didn’t meet an expectation. We didn’t really have an expectation.”This is literally a silly conversation that Jerry is just wasting our time with. He is trying to say this falls under the Horford precedent, when it clearly does not. The team announced that Horford was being shut down without being injured, and we took that into account. Giddey was actually injured and didn't make it back on the court for 6+ weeks, and then the season ended. This is not at all the same situation. |
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Post by Jerry West on May 9, 2022 19:22:50 GMT
The worst part for me is that this presents a gigantic headache for an injury system. Clearly the player is not injured. Clearly it's nothing to do with the player's fault to be out, this time it's the team's choice. It hearkens back to me saying earlier in this thread: Kyrie and Simmons (and Holmes) were out for personal reasons that they were controlling and therefore should be taken out, however with Al Horford last season and now with Giddey - it's something outside the player's personal control. Maybe that's how we draw the line for future? But I worry immensely about changes like that because they're immediately manipulated by the first GM trying to benefit. I obviously have a very biased opinion on this, but like you said, it's not even player choice, are we made to believe that players like Poku, Theo Maledon or Lindy Waters wouldn't want the extra NBA minutes and they chose given the option to not play? I find that hard to believe, specially when you consider none of 10 players did it. I feel that just like with Al Horford, the team just decided to sit the player without a discussion, obviously when it's a 10 year old vet on his way out of the team you can simply say it was a "common" interest, but what are you going to tell the league about a 19 year old rookie? If you say you are sitting him out repercussions are coning your way, not to mention, you would have to send the same report out for another 10 players, it's much easier to just list them on the injury list to avoid fines or sanctions. Like the article says, it's already crazy what they get away with, imagine if they said they were sitting out 12 players. And does anyone actually believe the Thunder had 12 players out and werent forging injury reports to tank? It's just a matter of being a common trend with this specific franchise over the last 2 years. And I don't feel like I should be punished for it when it's out of my control and when a precedent was set last year. |
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on May 10, 2022 22:33:00 GMT
Crazy that this even has any impact on our injury list as it’s not relevant to our rules, but I feel like it will for some GMs.
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Post by Ian Noble on May 15, 2022 17:51:43 GMT
I feel like we can return Richaun Holmes now. Any disagreement with that?
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Post by Ian Noble on May 15, 2022 17:57:51 GMT
The worst part for me is that this presents a gigantic headache for an injury system. Clearly the player is not injured. Clearly it's nothing to do with the player's fault to be out, this time it's the team's choice. It hearkens back to me saying earlier in this thread: Kyrie and Simmons (and Holmes) were out for personal reasons that they were controlling and therefore should be taken out, however with Al Horford last season and now with Giddey - it's something outside the player's personal control. Maybe that's how we draw the line for future? But I worry immensely about changes like that because they're immediately manipulated by the first GM trying to benefit. I obviously have a very biased opinion on this, but like you said, it's not even player choice, are we made to believe that players like Poku, Theo Maledon or Lindy Waters wouldn't want the extra NBA minutes and they chose given the option to not play? I find that hard to believe, specially when you consider none of 10 players did it. I feel that just like with Al Horford, the team just decided to sit the player without a discussion, obviously when it's a 10 year old vet on his way out of the team you can simply say it was a "common" interest, but what are you going to tell the league about a 19 year old rookie? If you say you are sitting him out repercussions are coning your way, not to mention, you would have to send the same report out for another 10 players, it's much easier to just list them on the injury list to avoid fines or sanctions. Like the article says, it's already crazy what they get away with, imagine if they said they were sitting out 12 players. And does anyone actually believe the Thunder had 12 players out and werent forging injury reports to tank? It's just a matter of being a common trend with this specific franchise over the last 2 years. And I don't feel like I should be punished for it when it's out of my control and when a precedent was set last year. made the good point, that I didn't consider, which was that Giddey's been out since February and had a stretch of genuine missed time. On the other hand OKC's clearly not trying to win, technically could play Giddey any time they wanted before the regular season ended. I feel like this is the "opposite side of the coin" to the downside having your players play during the Playoffs and risking more injuries, whilst players on eliminated teams are protected from the threat of further injury. On balance I feel Giddey should remain on the injury list I'm afraid. The fact is - there's always going to be hundreds of nuances to the injury system and, in this instance, it feels better to let the official website we're pulling data from decide. |
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Post by Jerry West on May 16, 2022 22:29:16 GMT
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Post by Ian Noble on May 17, 2022 9:58:52 GMT
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Post by Ian Noble on May 17, 2022 10:02:22 GMT
That's just what I do - I trade 76ers players the day before they get eliminated from the playoffs and the next day they have to sit out for a year  |
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Post by Ian Noble on May 17, 2022 10:03:00 GMT
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on May 27, 2022 2:47:05 GMT
Ian NobleZion is now cleared to play without restrictions.
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Post by Ian Noble on May 27, 2022 8:53:49 GMT
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Post by Arvydas Sabonis on May 27, 2022 9:34:08 GMT
I think as long as Zion actually steps into the court he should be out, meaning next season. There has been already similar reports throughout the year and he never played in the end
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on May 27, 2022 10:11:03 GMT
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Post by Ian Noble on May 27, 2022 16:25:51 GMT
Sorry Hana, I don't see this as enough for Zion to be back. - he hasn't actually played a game. - his status looked just as ready to play when the Pelicans were playing IRL, but he didn't play. - Zion didn't play because, it seems fairly clear, the Pelicans were resting him for the entire season to return next season. - his name remains on the injury list that we use as a source. I'm sure he could play right now, but the same is true for Jamal Murray and Michael Porter Jr and there's zero chance I was expecting them back for these Playoffs. |
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BOS - 4
MIN - 0
ATL - 0
HOU - 4.png)
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CHA - 1
MEM - 1
SAC - 0
SAS - 1
CLE - 3
MIA - 1
NOP - 4
DET - 2
POR - 0
IND - 1
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