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Post by Steve Nash on Apr 2, 2022 14:46:02 GMT
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Post by Ian Noble on Apr 2, 2022 15:45:03 GMT
Processing... You can add him back to your depth chart now  |
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Amare Stoudemire
 Sacramento Kings
Starter
Posts: 2,416 
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Post by Amare Stoudemire on Apr 2, 2022 23:41:31 GMT
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Post by Ian Noble on Apr 3, 2022 14:15:15 GMT
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Post by Arvydas Sabonis on Apr 4, 2022 7:46:14 GMT
Robert Williams confirmed to be out less than 6 weeks and should not be out So I can't get Williams back even with this news or what? Kinda sucks for my playoff race to lose him and if he then comes back after 4 weeks |
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Post by Ian Noble on Apr 4, 2022 10:48:26 GMT
Robert Williams confirmed to be out less than 6 weeks and should not be out So I can't get Williams back even with this news or what? Kinda sucks for my playoff race to lose him and if he then comes back after 4 weeks You can add him back to your depth chart now. |
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Post by Jared Montini on Apr 6, 2022 20:07:32 GMT
Powell back
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Apr 6, 2022 20:14:02 GMT
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Apr 8, 2022 19:26:09 GMT
Some injuries to consider:
John Collins - has been out for 4 weeks. Listed as out indefinitely.
Jarrett Allen - has been out 5 weeks. Listed as out indefinitely.
Steph Curry - has been out 3.5 weeks. Listed as out indefinitely.
Nerlens Noel - has been out 5.5 weeks. Listed as out indefinitely
Josh Giddey - has been out 6 weeks already. Listed as out for the season.
Derrick Favors - has been out 5 weeks. Listed as out for the season.
Kyle Kuzma - has been out 3 weeks. Listed as out indefinitely.
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Apr 9, 2022 3:05:47 GMT
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Post by Chauncey Billups on Apr 9, 2022 5:22:20 GMT
Yeah LeBron is out for the season. Get him outta here! |
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Apr 9, 2022 6:33:12 GMT
Yeah LeBron is out for the season. Get him outta here! It was due to an injury. |
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Post by Ian Noble on Apr 10, 2022 17:40:03 GMT
Yeah LeBron is out for the season. Get him outta here! It was due to an injury. I see the vultures are circling but... Player Injuries- When a player's real-life team is eliminated from competition and they opt for an end of season surgery they will not be added to the injury list at D5 unless, when the next season rolls around, they are still injured from the surgery.
Sorry to spoil the party guys. LeBron James (left ankle sprain) does not qualify as a 6 week+ injury. |
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Apr 11, 2022 16:45:14 GMT
Some injuries to consider: John Collins - has been out for 4 weeks. Listed as out indefinitely. Jarrett Allen - has been out 5 weeks. Listed as out indefinitely. Steph Curry - has been out 3.5 weeks. Listed as out indefinitely. Nerlens Noel - has been out 5.5 weeks. Listed as out indefinitely Josh Giddey - has been out 6 weeks already. Listed as out for the season. Derrick Favors - has been out 5 weeks. Listed as out for the season. Kyle Kuzma - has been out 3 weeks. Listed as out indefinitely. bump on this. I think at a minimum, we should remove Collins, Allen, Nerlens, Giddey, and Favors for now |
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Apr 11, 2022 16:50:21 GMT
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Apr 11, 2022 17:14:01 GMT
This is so silly obviously LeBron shouldn't be out
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Post by Ian Noble on Apr 11, 2022 19:18:52 GMT
This is so silly obviously LeBron shouldn't be out But Josh needs to win, therefore an ankle sprain becomes an amputation |
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Post by Ian Noble on Apr 11, 2022 19:27:56 GMT
Some injuries to consider: John Collins - has been out for 4 weeks. Listed as out indefinitely. Jarrett Allen - has been out 5 weeks. Listed as out indefinitely. Steph Curry - has been out 3.5 weeks. Listed as out indefinitely. Nerlens Noel - has been out 5.5 weeks. Listed as out indefinitely Josh Giddey - has been out 6 weeks already. Listed as out for the season. Derrick Favors - has been out 5 weeks. Listed as out for the season. Kyle Kuzma - has been out 3 weeks. Listed as out indefinitely. bump on this. I think at a minimum, we should remove Collins, Allen, Nerlens, Giddey, and Favors for now John Collins - still not fully clear. Another 2 weeks and he will be out though. Jarrett Allen - one more week and he meets criteria. Nerlens Noel - Arvydas Sabonis Nerlens qualifies as injured as of exactly today. Josh Giddey - Jerry West Giddey now listed as injured. Derrick Favors - Walt Frazier will have been injured 6 weeks total in 2 days time, seems fine to add him to the IL now. And it's still a little while until these guys fit criteria: Kyle Kuzma - has been out 3 weeks. Listed as out indefinitely. Steph Curry - has been out 3.5 weeks. Listed as out indefinitely. |
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Post by Ian Noble on Apr 11, 2022 19:39:24 GMT
Literally all of this follows from the season ending surgery, for which we have a rule, including whatever time Lebron now wants to rehab, which will also be far longer than any usual example because he has no more games to play. |
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Apr 11, 2022 19:49:36 GMT
Here is the rule that I think is most applicable:
After there are six weeks left at the end of the regular season injuries listed as "Out for Season" will be checked for their severity, and if in doubt ignored, because "Out for season" will not necessarily mean an injury is severe enough to warrant being added to the injury list at this time.
Basically this rule says that since LeBron went out with <6 weeks left in the season, we need to judge his injury for severity.
We have evidence, based on LeBron's own words, that the injury is 5.5 to 7.5 weeks until he can start putting weight on the ankle. It seems to me that the severity of this injury is almost definitely >6 weeks, unless we assume that he would go from no weight at 5.5 weeks to playing in games at 6 weeks.
I guess I am missing something here. By what basis are we saying that the severity of the injury is not 6 weeks? Yes, it has been reported as a sprained ankle up to this point, but don't we now have evidence that it is actually much more severe than that?
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Post by Chauncey Billups on Apr 11, 2022 19:59:40 GMT
Here is the rule that I think is most applicable: After there are six weeks left at the end of the regular season injuries listed as "Out for Season" will be checked for their severity, and if in doubt ignored, because "Out for season" will not necessarily mean an injury is severe enough to warrant being added to the injury list at this time.Basically this rule says that since LeBron went out with <6 weeks left in the season, we need to judge his injury for severity. We have evidence, based on LeBron's own words, that the injury is 5.5 to 7.5 weeks until he can start putting weight on the ankle. It seems to me that the severity of this injury is almost definitely >6 weeks, unless we assume that he would go from no weight at 5.5 weeks to playing in games at 6 weeks. I guess I am missing something here. By what basis are we saying that the severity of the injury is not 6 weeks? Yes, it has been reported as a sprained ankle up to this point, but don't we now have evidence that it is actually much more severe than that? Murky waters here, but I would think it's safe to assume that had the Lakers made the playoffs, LeBron would still be playing. |
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Apr 12, 2022 2:10:16 GMT
Literally all of this follows from the season ending surgery, for which we have a rule, including whatever time Lebron now wants to rehab, which will also be far longer than any usual example because he has no more games to play. What season ending surgery are you talking about? Josh' point is understandable. The guy was injured. And we just found out that he is out 4-6 weeks more. So, what is the reason for not putting him out? I think, you need to state it clearly so that we can come out with the right decision. |
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Apr 12, 2022 2:11:59 GMT
Here is the rule that I think is most applicable: After there are six weeks left at the end of the regular season injuries listed as "Out for Season" will be checked for their severity, and if in doubt ignored, because "Out for season" will not necessarily mean an injury is severe enough to warrant being added to the injury list at this time.Basically this rule says that since LeBron went out with <6 weeks left in the season, we need to judge his injury for severity. We have evidence, based on LeBron's own words, that the injury is 5.5 to 7.5 weeks until he can start putting weight on the ankle. It seems to me that the severity of this injury is almost definitely >6 weeks, unless we assume that he would go from no weight at 5.5 weeks to playing in games at 6 weeks. I guess I am missing something here. By what basis are we saying that the severity of the injury is not 6 weeks? Yes, it has been reported as a sprained ankle up to this point, but don't we now have evidence that it is actually much more severe than that? Murky waters here, but I would think it's safe to assume that had the Lakers made the playoffs, LeBron would still be playing. We have two sides. Side A - he should be out. Clear reason as stated by Josh. side B - not out. Primary reason, assumptions? I think our lawyer James Kay can help us out in which side should be chosen. |
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Post by Chauncey Billups on Apr 12, 2022 2:35:59 GMT
Murky waters here, but I would think it's safe to assume that had the Lakers made the playoffs, LeBron would still be playing. We have two sides. Side A - he should be out. Clear reason as stated by Josh. side B - not out. Primary reason, assumptions? I think our lawyer James Kay can help us out in which side should be chosen. Like I said, murky waters, because I am assuming. Seems like once the Lakers were officially eliminated, his injury took precedence. I don’t think it’s that far-fetched to assume LeBron would continue playing if the Lakers made the playoffs. Based on that, how serious is the injury? edit: also, hypothetically, if we take him out, do we just bring him back after 6 weeks? Or are we calling this a season-ending injury here on d5? If it’s the latter, I have a problem with that. I just don’t think that’s fair. |
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Apr 12, 2022 11:57:27 GMT
I don't think Richaun Holmes should be injured for the following reasons:
- He does not have an injury (he was OUT due to legal accusations)
- He only actually missed 3.5 weeks
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Post by Ian Noble on Apr 12, 2022 15:16:46 GMT
Murky waters here, but I would think it's safe to assume that had the Lakers made the playoffs, LeBron would still be playing. We have two sides. Side A - he should be out. Clear reason as stated by Josh. side B - not out. Primary reason, assumptions? I think our lawyer James Kay can help us out in which side should be chosen. Side B Primary Reason: only an "ankle sprain" was mentioned until Lebron had no games left to play, classic case of a player shutting it down after the season, end of story - maybe the Rules need amending if you don't feel like the existing one covers it? |
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Apr 12, 2022 15:23:41 GMT
We have two sides. Side A - he should be out. Clear reason as stated by Josh. side B - not out. Primary reason, assumptions? I think our lawyer James Kay can help us out in which side should be chosen. Side B Primary Reason: only an "ankle sprain" was mentioned until Lebron had no games left to play, classic case of a player shutting it down after the season, end of story - maybe the Rules need amending if you don't feel like the existing one covers it? In terms of amendment. James Kay's in depth look at the rules in regards to this in the Discord should point you to the right direction.
In regards to that classic case. If it is really classic, can you give us atleast ten examples in the last five years?
Ankle injury by the way.
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Post by Tom Izzo on Apr 12, 2022 15:31:16 GMT
I think people want LeBron out for personal gain and it's clouding their judgement. Our rules allow these very grey areas and we almost always side on the liberal side of letting them play.
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Apr 12, 2022 16:19:41 GMT
I think people want LeBron out for personal gain and it's clouding their judgement. Our rules allow these very grey areas and we almost always side on the liberal side of letting them play. Honestly I just want consistency. It's lazy to just say "LeBron has an ankle sprain so end of discussion", its pretty clear that his injury is worse than that. It's also lazy to say he should definitively be out as his timeline is 6+ weeks, because its obviously a unique situation at the end of the season. I think it comes down to what James Kay and I were discussing in discord yesterday. We have these two rules: 6. After there are six weeks left at the end of the regular season injuries listed as "Out for Season" will be checked for their severity, and if in doubt ignored, because "Out for season" will not necessarily mean an injury is severe enough to warrant being added to the injury list at this time.
7. Players injured during the Playoffs will also have the severity of their injuries checked and if the recovery time of a player's injury would usually require them to miss 6 weeks of play they will be added to the injury list.The key questions here are what rule does this injury fall under, and what does the rule mean? Rule 6 is for regular season injuries, whereas Rule 7 is for playoff injuries. Rule 6 is ambiguous as to what injury warrants being added to the IR, but we can assume that we would judge an injury to determine if its a 6+ week injury. Rule 7 is less ambiguous as it specifically says 6 weeks, and it further says that we should check the usual recovery time of the injury to determine if it is 6+ weeks or not. LeBron clearly falls under Rule 6 since it is a regular season injury, but since Rule 6 is ambiguous I think its safe to use Rule 7 as a guideline. The biggest question then is whether or not LeBron's injury would usually have a timeline of 6+ weeks. If you say it is just a common ankle sprain, then it is clear that would not be a 6+ week injury. But we have evidence that it is more than just a typical ankle sprain- he only played 1 game in the past 2 weeks, which he admitted he was not even healthy enough to do, and then he went and got an MRI and came back saying he had to stay off it for 4-6 weeks. That is clearly not just some mundane ankle sprain. Despite LeBron himself saying it is a 6+ week injury, our rules dictate that we should look at the usual recovery timeline for an ankle injury. This is a great article that I found discussing NBA timelines for different ankle injuries. The synopsis is as such: Grade 1 sprain: 0-2 weeks Grade 2 sprain: 2-5 weeks Grade 3 sprain: 6 to 8 weeks Anthony Davis himself missed 7 weeks this very season with a sprained ankle (presumably grade 2 or 3). We don't know what Grade ankle injury Lebron has- but since we have a timeline from LeBron himself of 5.5 to 7.5 weeks just to put weight on it, it seems to most likely line up with a Grade 3 sprain. Although we are not using LeBron's timeline to directly say he has a 6+ week injury, I do think it is fair to use his timeline to judge what type of injury he actually has, so that we can assess the usual recovery time for that injury. This is obviously the most crucial element of an argument either way- which grade of sprain do we think he actually has? I believe the evidence we have supports that he has a Grade 3 sprain, but I also will admit that the evidence is inherently unreliable since the season is over. Would he really not put weight on it for 5.5 to 7.5 weeks if the Lakers were still playing? There are some big judgments we need to make here, and it is a huge decision for the league with big D5 playoff implications. I think we need to collectively discuss and come to a reasonable answer without just immediately dismissing this, as it does seem like the most likely case supports LeBron being out in D5. |
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Apr 12, 2022 16:34:02 GMT
Another question is the "in doubt" phrase in Rule 6. If we have doubt about LeBron's injury being Grade 3, then the rule suggests we err on the side of caution and do not place him on the IR.
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