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Post by James Kay on Jun 21, 2019 16:58:05 GMT
I just looked at both their rosters and could find a solution for both teams without giving up a top tier player and at least getting some type of assest back What a joke lol Honestly you’re right about Orlando, it’s absurd to lose a pick over simply not cutting Kyle Singler. I don’t know what you’re going on about as far as the Hornets, though. I’ve been out of the playoffs for about 6 days. I can only trade my pick if I also send out 22 million in salary. No one is going to accept 22 million in salary unless I attach a pick. So the pick was only useful as a salary dump to get under the hard cap so I could keep Dotson. In the six days since I’ve been out of the playoffs I arranged a trade sending out my pick and 22 million as a dump, but it was only agreed upon last night, by which point I was 1 day too late. Sorry, I’ve been focusing on the playoffs, keeping PG, what I’m going to do regarding KD’s injury. I’m also in law school and don’t have time to devote to learning 30+ NBA prospects so avoiding losing the 28th pick was not very high on my priority list. |
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Post by James Kay on Jun 21, 2019 17:00:45 GMT
But feel free to bless me with your solution involving me getting an asset back, I’m interested in what you think you’d be able to do better
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Post by James Kay on Jun 21, 2019 17:05:56 GMT
I know we’re postponing the offseason so I don’t mean to be insensitive about this lol but I actually don’t lose my pick or Dotson if PG opts out so I’m curious how that’s going to be handled, especially if the PG decision is postponed until October.
Sorry to derail this trade thread.
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Post by James Kay on Jun 21, 2019 17:27:36 GMT
TBH it's kinda sad that 2 teams lost their draft picks and didn't make a trade or do something to fix their teams Their are 3 or 4 active assistants that would have made sure that didn't happen I wonder what a owner would do if a gm let a golden nugget like a 1st just be forfeitted bc he couldn't get his cap in order or a trade lined up before this happened on draft day Probably get them fired but then again who knows right? Yeah I don't know why things got to such a last minute until it was dealt with. As another team with hard cap issues this year, it was the central issue I planned around all season long. It was loudly debated and well announced throughout the year, so it didn't have to get to the eleventh hour. It's just human nature I guess. I mean I have a trade lined up, because I thought the deadline was when Hana made his pick. I wouldn’t mind a slight deadline extension given the ambiguity of the rule and the fact that this is the first year it’s going into effect. Plus the fact that this is a simulation league, and not one where I can spend all night conference calling with other GMs on draft night. |
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Post by Blake Bowman on Jun 21, 2019 18:18:24 GMT
I was going to drop Singler yesterday with the same late realization that made me interested in trading the pick, but I thought the trade was there so I couldn't drop him and I didn't realize the timing. Having Singler was necessary for this trade to go through when I thought we were using those salaries/cap. I read by Friday night, missing the NBA Draft starting part, but I see it clearly now. Things happen, I messed up, and it'll have the effects on my team that it has.
I get what you're saying, Amare.
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Jun 22, 2019 0:12:55 GMT
I hope the point that the rule has been in the "Rules" for the entire season, giving an opportunity to all of us to clarify, will not be forgotten.
If I will be having trouble with the hard cap this offseason, I will surely ask everything about the rules. As what the primary point of Amare is, as a GM, you should not let a 1st round pick disappear into the air.
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Post by Charles Barkley on Jun 22, 2019 5:41:24 GMT
So the way I see this is, because of the postponement of the off-season either:
1. Blake can Decline Singler's option, entitling him to his pick (I think), which he likely would have done if not for this trade, or Josh's trade; or
2. James and Blake don't lose their picks because this trade and James' potential trade are allowed since off-season is postponed and we give some leeway
3. Blake and James lose their picks, trade fails.
Can we clear it up so that the other GMs can act accordingly.
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Post by Danny Longley on Jun 22, 2019 15:23:36 GMT
I don't quite understand why Blake is losing his picks at all, assuming that declining Kyle Singler's TO is all that he has to do to get under the hard cap. I've looked through the Team Option forum, and I didn't see any Singler thread. So unless Blake deleted a thread, he didn't accept his team option. The rule re: TOs is to post a thread only if you're accepting the TO Team OptionsTeam Options may be picked up by GMs during the Team Options Period each Off Season. To pick up a player's team option please post a new thread in this section, not a reply to this thread. If you do not wish to pick up a player's team option, just don't post a thread and they will not be picked up. By not doing anything, Blake has effectively declined Singler's TO, Putting him under the hard cap. Ian Noble |
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Post by Alex English on Jun 22, 2019 16:21:39 GMT
It's not really declined though, not yet. Up until July 1 Blake could still go back at any time and pick up the option. I agree it's kind of borderline with him though.
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Post by Ian Noble on Jun 22, 2019 21:06:42 GMT
I don't quite understand why Blake is losing his picks at all, assuming that declining Kyle Singler's TO is all that he has to do to get under the hard cap. I've looked through the Team Option forum, and I didn't see any Singler thread. So unless Blake deleted a thread, he didn't accept his team option. The rule re: TOs is to post a thread only if you're accepting the TO Team OptionsTeam Options may be picked up by GMs during the Team Options Period each Off Season. To pick up a player's team option please post a new thread in this section, not a reply to this thread. If you do not wish to pick up a player's team option, just don't post a thread and they will not be picked up. By not doing anything, Blake has effectively declined Singler's TO, Putting him under the hard cap. Ian NobleNot that we accounted for this technicality but if we go back to the literal meaning of the actual rule, if a team is projected to be over the Hard Cap on the day the Draft starts they still lose their picks, even including this wrinkle. |
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Jun 22, 2019 23:22:30 GMT
I don't quite understand why Blake is losing his picks at all, assuming that declining Kyle Singler's TO is all that he has to do to get under the hard cap. I've looked through the Team Option forum, and I didn't see any Singler thread. So unless Blake deleted a thread, he didn't accept his team option. The rule re: TOs is to post a thread only if you're accepting the TO By not doing anything, Blake has effectively declined Singler's TO, Putting him under the hard cap. Ian Noble Not that we accounted for this technicality but if we go back to the literal meaning of the actual rule, if a team is projected to be over the Hard Cap on the day the Draft starts they still lose their picks, even including this wrinkle. But technically, Blake was not given an option to decline his TO before the start of the draft and that I believed, is not right. |
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Post by Charles Barkley on Jun 23, 2019 0:59:18 GMT
I don't quite understand why Blake is losing his picks at all, assuming that declining Kyle Singler's TO is all that he has to do to get under the hard cap. I've looked through the Team Option forum, and I didn't see any Singler thread. So unless Blake deleted a thread, he didn't accept his team option. The rule re: TOs is to post a thread only if you're accepting the TO By not doing anything, Blake has effectively declined Singler's TO, Putting him under the hard cap. Ian Noble Not that we accounted for this technicality but if we go back to the literal meaning of the actual rule, if a team is projected to be over the Hard Cap on the day the Draft starts they still lose their picks, even including this wrinkle. In other words, the wording/verbage doesn't line up. Blake did decline the team option by not having actually picked it up, but the catch is that he could pick it up at any time before expiry/off-season begins. He's not required to affirmatively decline it. So, had the rosters/salaries rolled over THAT day, the day the draft begun, Blake would have been under the hard cap. An easier fix to this timing issue, b/c we technically don't know what the cap is yet, things could change, is if instead of penalizing the team for the draft that precedes the league year where they will be over the hard-cap, what if the team was penalized and lost the draft pick to the draft that is subsequent to the season, i.e. Blake/James would have lost next years pick (which is still the 2019-2020 league year) for being over the hard-cap heading into the 2019-2020 season. Does that make sense what I am trying to say? Its a weird scenario, and there's certainly some kinks to work out here. |
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Post by Charles Barkley on Jun 23, 2019 1:02:43 GMT
The 2018-2019 draft is still the 2018-2019 league year. The rule is in place to punish a team for being over the hard cap, but in so doing, the punishment is the preceding league year's pick.
How it works: Over the hard cap for 2019/20 season? Lose 2018-2019 season draft pick.
How it could work: Over the hard cap at the beginning of the 2019/2020 season, i.e. the day the first game is simulated, regardless if your team is participating or not, lose 2019/2020 season pick.
There's also the "added" time to bring your team under in the off-season, even though that is what should happen in the first place
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Post by Alex English on Jun 23, 2019 3:55:08 GMT
The 2018-2019 draft is still the 2018-2019 league year. The rule is in place to punish a team for being over the hard cap, but in so doing, the punishment is the preceding league year's pick. How it works: Over the hard cap for 2019/20 season? Lose 2018-2019 season draft pick. How it could work: Over the hard cap at the beginning of the 2019/2020 season, i.e. the day the first game is simulated, regardless if your team is participating or not, lose 2019/2020 season pick. There's also the "added" time to bring your team under in the off-season, even though that is what should happen in the first place This is one of the things that was talked about in the hard cap thread at the beginning of the season. I don't think it makes sense if you can break the hard cap rule, but then have a whole year (minus a week) to be able to avoid your punishment. Someone could just disregard the hard cap and build a team they know exceeds it, then after the season is over dump some salary just in time for the draft. The timing is much more appropriate to have the punishment be at the time of the draft where you will break the rule, not a whole year later. Also, while the draft may technically be the end of the season, functionally it's the beginning. The players you draft sign new contracts that begin the following season, it's like adding a free agent. So I also don't think it make sense to be able to break the hard cap rule, but then still add salary with your rookie contracts. |
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Post by Charles Barkley on Jun 23, 2019 17:02:53 GMT
The 2018-2019 draft is still the 2018-2019 league year. The rule is in place to punish a team for being over the hard cap, but in so doing, the punishment is the preceding league year's pick. How it works: Over the hard cap for 2019/20 season? Lose 2018-2019 season draft pick. How it could work: Over the hard cap at the beginning of the 2019/2020 season, i.e. the day the first game is simulated, regardless if your team is participating or not, lose 2019/2020 season pick. There's also the "added" time to bring your team under in the off-season, even though that is what should happen in the first place This is one of the things that was talked about in the hard cap thread at the beginning of the season. I don't think it makes sense if you can break the hard cap rule, but then have a whole year (minus a week) to be able to avoid your punishment. Someone could just disregard the hard cap and build a team they know exceeds it, then after the season is over dump some salary just in time for the draft. The timing is much more appropriate to have the punishment be at the time of the draft where you will break the rule, not a whole year later. Also, while the draft may technically be the end of the season, functionally it's the beginning. The players you draft sign new contracts that begin the following season, it's like adding a free agent. So I also don't think it make sense to be able to break the hard cap rule, but then still add salary with your rookie contracts. Yeah, that's why I said you can't be over the first day of the season, and if you are, you lose that season's pick. Under this theory, you don't get to play the whole season, or even one single game, without losing your pick if you are over the hard cap. Under the system now, you could have a team that will be about to break the hard cap, and then lose the pick prospectively, i.e. the team may never actually break the hard cap. Under the system I suggested, if you actually break the hard cap, and are over the hard cap at the beginning of the season, you lose that season's pick. Functionally, the draft is the beginning of a new season, you're right. But, the way it is now, we don't even technically know the salary cap to adjust it to the hard cap because the NBA could make a last minute adjustment, as often is the case, its never exactly as projected. This means that a team could bring themselves under the expected hard cap by a hair, and then when it actually comes out, be above it. |
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Post by Jerry West on Jun 23, 2019 17:12:08 GMT
For my 2 cents this was well document and talked about extensively in D5, everyone knew the rules and playoff teams knew they were over the cap and the consequences of being above it and still decided to risk it all for the championship. For example the Hornets were well on their way to become D5 champions, if you ask anyone if they rather be champs or have a first round pick it seems like a obvious choice.
In my opinion it makes sense loosing this year picks since it was this season that they played with a salary over the hard cap, therefore infringing the rules, so the punishment should be this season, not the next one.
Also this trade still wouldn't work since the Magic would be receiving more money than they are sending away. Which is illegal when you're over the hard cap.
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Post by Danny Longley on Jun 24, 2019 13:36:40 GMT
I'm only really arguing against Orlando losing their picks. They weren't over the Hard Cap this year, so you can't hold that against them.
If we strip Orlando of picks, we're practically punishing Blake for not explicitly declining any of his TOs - something that has literally never been required.
With the new hard cap punishments, I feel like we should either move up option deadlines to before the draft or just require explicit declining of Team Options so that we don't run into these weird borderline situations.
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