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Post by Charles Barkley on Jun 21, 2019 0:08:01 GMT
The Orlando Magic and the Houston Rockets have agreed to the following trade:
Houston Rockets Send:
86 Mike Conley $34,798,077 $38,625,866 $42,874,711
Orlando Magic Send:
79 Evan Fournier $19,102,142 $17,209,137 $15,503,727 (P.O.)
69 Kyle Singler $7,500,000 $8,000,000 (T.O.)
63 Jimmer Ferdette $831,311 $831,311
70 Marquese Chriss $2,581,500 $3,283,668 (T.O.) $4,426,384
66 Justin Jackson* $2,339,900 $2,734,100 (T.O.) $4,191,375 (T.O.) $5,859,543
2019 1st Pick (#17)
Salaries:
To Orlando: $34,798,077
From Orlando: $32,354,853 (x 1.10 = 35,590,338)
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Post by Charles Barkley on Jun 21, 2019 0:10:46 GMT
I accept. I think Fournier fits my system better than Conley does. Although I really think Conley will be great in Utah, my team did not perform well when he was with us.
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Post by Blake Bowman on Jun 21, 2019 0:19:55 GMT
I accept this deal. I love the fit of Conley on my roster. It allows me to move Schroeder to the bench when Oladipo comes back, so I have a stronger starting five and a more solid sixth man option. It does apply cap pressure, but I feel like I can work with that and make sure Orlando has a competitive roster moving forward.
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Post by Alex English on Jun 21, 2019 0:51:16 GMT
Every trade must decrease your team's salary if you are over the Hard Cap. - LinkI'm pretty sure this trade is illegal. Orlando is set to be over the hard cap with a salary of $168m, and based on the rule they can only trade if it decreases their salary. This deal would result in their salary rising to $175m for next season. |
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Post by Charles Barkley on Jun 21, 2019 1:14:26 GMT
Every trade must decrease your team's salary if you are over the Hard Cap. - LinkI'm pretty sure this trade is illegal. Orlando is set to be over the hard cap with a salary of $168m, and based on the rule they can only trade if it decreases their salary. This deal would result in their salary rising to $175m for next season. He's under the hard cap? Hard cap is ~ 178 million right now, Blake's at ~159.5 million right now. |
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Post by Charles Barkley on Jun 21, 2019 1:20:08 GMT
Every trade must decrease your team's salary if you are over the Hard Cap. - LinkI'm pretty sure this trade is illegal. Orlando is set to be over the hard cap with a salary of $168m, and based on the rule they can only trade if it decreases their salary. This deal would result in their salary rising to $175m for next season. Further to the point, the rule says that every trade must decrease your team's salary if you are over the Hard Cap.The Orlando Magic are currently well below the hard cap for the 2018/2019 season, and will be below the hard cap for the 2018/2019 season once this trade goes through. What happens in the future is irrelevant. The salaries haven't rolled over. The trade isn't set to be queued. |
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Post by George Gervin on Jun 21, 2019 1:31:49 GMT
Ian just posted something no more than two days ago indicating both Charlotte and Orlando were over the hard cap and would lose their picks if they didn’t get under. To Alex’s point, if this trade is increasing Orlando’s salary, I don’t think it is legal based on what Ian has posted clarifying the draft pick status for both of those teams
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Post by Charles Barkley on Jun 21, 2019 1:53:44 GMT
Ian just posted something no more than two days ago indicating both Charlotte and Orlando were over the hard cap and would lose their picks if they didn’t get under. To Alex’s point, if this trade is increasing Orlando’s salary, I don’t think it is legal based on what Ian has posted clarifying the draft pick status for both of those teams What Ian said was that Orlando and Charlotte would lose their picks if they were over the hard cap for the 2019/2020 season. That has nothing to do with this. Stay here in the present. Its the 2018/2019 season still. Blake is not over the hard cap. For all we know, he can go trade a bunch of his players. |
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Post by George Gervin on Jun 21, 2019 2:08:45 GMT
Ian just posted something no more than two days ago indicating both Charlotte and Orlando were over the hard cap and would lose their picks if they didn’t get under. To Alex’s point, if this trade is increasing Orlando’s salary, I don’t think it is legal based on what Ian has posted clarifying the draft pick status for both of those teams What Ian said was that Orlando and Charlotte would lose their picks if they were over the hard cap for the 2019/2020 season. That has nothing to do with this. Stay here in the present. Its the 2018/2019 season still. Blake is not over the hard cap. For all we know, he can go trade a bunch of his players. This is verbatim from Ian’s post: The projected salary cap for next season is currently $109,000,000. This means if your team's salaries are projected to be over $163,500,000 when the NBA Draft starts this Friday night you will lose your draft picks for this Draft! This currently affects: Charlotte Hornets James Kay Orlando Magic Blake Bowman The way this reads, Orlando could trade their pick but they still can’t do this trade because it is increasing, not decreasing, their overall cap obligations...which then means this would need to be restructured in order for Orlando to execute this. |
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Post by Alex English on Jun 21, 2019 2:10:38 GMT
I'm pretty sure this trade is illegal. Orlando is set to be over the hard cap with a salary of $168m, and based on the rule they can only trade if it decreases their salary. This deal would result in their salary rising to $175m for next season. Further to the point, the rule says that every trade must decrease your team's salary if you are over the Hard Cap.The Orlando Magic are currently well below the hard cap for the 2018/2019 season, and will be below the hard cap for the 2018/2019 season once this trade goes through. What happens in the future is irrelevant. The salaries haven't rolled over. The trade isn't set to be queued. It's hardly the future, it's like 10 days away. The season is over. This trade clearly breaks the spirit of the rule. We'll see if Ian Noble allows it. |
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Post by Charles Barkley on Jun 21, 2019 2:56:50 GMT
Further to the point, the rule says that every trade must decrease your team's salary if you are over the Hard Cap.The Orlando Magic are currently well below the hard cap for the 2018/2019 season, and will be below the hard cap for the 2018/2019 season once this trade goes through. What happens in the future is irrelevant. The salaries haven't rolled over. The trade isn't set to be queued. It's hardly the future, it's like 10 days away. The season is over. This trade clearly breaks the spirit of the rule. We'll see if Ian Noble allows it. If the rule was meant to not allow people to increase their salary obligations as they went into a season where they would be over the hard cap, the rule should say that, shouldn’t it? I mean, the way I read it is, it’s November, I’m over the hard cap, I can’t make a trade that increases my salaries. But it’s not November; it’s June. I think that’s the spirit of the rule. The league year hasn’t yet rolled around for us, as you know since you’re in the finals, our draft hasn’t begun, and fwiw, the NBA’s league year hasn’t rolled over yet either which is a main reason why many NBA teams execute trades now. If the rule is so intended to prevent things like this, to prevent teams from making trades just before the league year ends and a new year begins, it should say something to that effect. But here and now, all we know is it’s the 2018/19 season, Blake’s not over, trade should still be good. |
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Post by Alex English on Jun 21, 2019 3:06:05 GMT
It's hardly the future, it's like 10 days away. The season is over. This trade clearly breaks the spirit of the rule. We'll see if Ian Noble allows it. If the rule was meant to not allow people to increase their salary obligations as they went into a season where they would be over the hard cap, the rule should say that, shouldn’t it? I mean, the way I read it is, it’s November, I’m over the hard cap, I can’t make a trade that increases my salaries. But it’s not November; it’s June. I think that’s the spirit of the rule. The league year hasn’t yet rolled around for us, as you know since you’re in the finals, our draft hasn’t begun, and fwiw, the NBA’s league year hasn’t rolled over yet either which is a main reason why many NBA teams execute trades now. If the rule is so intended to prevent things like this, to prevent teams from making trades just before the league year ends and a new year begins, it should say something to that effect. But here and now, all we know is it’s the 2018/19 season, Blake’s not over, trade should still be good. Technically, sure this is all good. This is a brand new rule though, so we've never encountered all the issues we're going to see. There will obviously be issues to iron out. It's not practical to not allow it earlier since we don't know what the next year's cap will be, but right now, when we're so close, this trade obviously isn't ideal given what we want to do with the hard cap. |
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Post by Jerry West on Jun 21, 2019 3:06:17 GMT
Just to clear, this is what's written on rules:
Hard Cap
2019/20: 150% of Salary Cap
2018/19: $178,270,750 (175% of Salary Cap)
2017/18: $198,186,000 (200% of Salary Cap)
2016/17: $207,114,600 (220% of Salary Cap)
2015/16: $161,000,000 (230% of Salary Cap)
Every trade must decrease your team's salary if you are over the Hard Cap.
On the day the Rookie Draft starts, if your team is projected to be over the Hard Cap when salaries progress on the following July 1st (usually less than a week later), you lose all your picks in that Draft.
Teams cannot re-sign even Bird Rights players if they are over the Hard Cap after the signing. Team Options cannot be picked up on a player if it takes a team above the Hard Cap. Player Options are still the decision of the player. The only time a player can be signed whilst over the Hard Cap is if a team is under the 12 player roster limit for the league minimum.
* (hard cap discussion, 2018)
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Jun 21, 2019 3:07:12 GMT
It doesn’t matter either way, this trade was posted after the draft started, no? Orlando has forfeited their pick.
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Post by Alex English on Jun 21, 2019 3:10:52 GMT
It doesn’t matter either way, this trade was posted after the draft started, no? Orlando has forfeited their pick. True. This one is clearly stated in the rules. No excuses here. On the day the Rookie Draft starts, if your team is projected to be over the Hard Cap when salaries progress on the following July 1st (usually less than a week later), you lose all your picks in that Draft. - Link |
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Post by Charles Barkley on Jun 21, 2019 3:43:22 GMT
It doesn’t matter either way, this trade was posted after the draft started, no? Orlando has forfeited their pick. True. This one is clearly stated in the rules. No excuses here. On the day the Rookie Draft starts, if your team is projected to be over the Hard Cap when salaries progress on the following July 1st (usually less than a week later), you lose all your picks in that Draft. - LinkIn Ian's post today, he said Blake and James had until the start of the draft tonight. Draft hasn't technically started yet for us, Michi still hasnt picked even though I think we all knew/thought he was going to. |
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Post by Alex English on Jun 21, 2019 3:48:19 GMT
True. This one is clearly stated in the rules. No excuses here. In Ian's post today, he said Blake and James had until the start of the draft tonight. Draft hasn't technically started yet for us, Michi still hasnt picked even though I think we all knew/thought he was going to. Our draft has started though... Hana has been on the clock since 7pm (US eastern time zone). That's always been when we started things. |
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Post by Ian Noble on Jun 21, 2019 11:28:49 GMT
The rule states: On the day the Rookie Draft starts, if your team is projected to be over the Hard Cap when salaries progress on the following July 1st (usually less than a week later), you lose all your picks in that Draft. On the day the Rookie Draft starts - ie. when the day began. Regardless of timezone Draft Day started much earlier than this trade was posted and Orlando were projected to be over the Hard Cap at that time, so they unfortunately have lost their pick. I know I posted about this two days ago but this information has been in the rules and advertised since December. I'm aware that Orlando's made subsequent trades that would reduce their salary obligations for next season, but these were also submitted after the time. |
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Amare Stoudemire
 Sacramento Kings
Starter
Posts: 2,416 
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Post by Amare Stoudemire on Jun 21, 2019 13:38:00 GMT
TBH it's kinda sad that 2 teams lost their draft picks and didn't make a trade or do something to fix their teams
Their are 3 or 4 active assistants that would have made sure that didn't happen
I wonder what a owner would do if a gm let a golden nugget like a 1st just be forfeitted bc he couldn't get his cap in order or a trade lined up before this happened on draft day
Probably get them fired but then again who knows right?
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Post by Alex English on Jun 21, 2019 14:24:23 GMT
TBH it's kinda sad that 2 teams lost their draft picks and didn't make a trade or do something to fix their teams Their are 3 or 4 active assistants that would have made sure that didn't happen I wonder what a owner would do if a gm let a golden nugget like a 1st just be forfeitted bc he couldn't get his cap in order or a trade lined up before this happened on draft day Probably get them fired but then again who knows right? Yeah I don't know why things got to such a last minute until it was dealt with. As another team with hard cap issues this year, it was the central issue I planned around all season long. It was loudly debated and well announced throughout the year, so it didn't have to get to the eleventh hour. It's just human nature I guess. |
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Post by George Gervin on Jun 21, 2019 14:32:40 GMT
TBH it's kinda sad that 2 teams lost their draft picks and didn't make a trade or do something to fix their teams Their are 3 or 4 active assistants that would have made sure that didn't happen I wonder what a owner would do if a gm let a golden nugget like a 1st just be forfeitted bc he couldn't get his cap in order or a trade lined up before this happened on draft day Probably get them fired but then again who knows right? To be fair to James Kay here, ultimately a move that would’ve gotten him under the hard cap made little sense as he was so far over and already subject to the Stepien Rule with his 2019 pick that he was stuck. It would’ve made little sense to trade either all his depth into a team with cap space or one of his core four just to get below that number when he was going for a title. Just my two cents, but I can see inaction from Charlotte given that roster and, up until the KD injury, his team was savaging everyone in the Eastern Conference playoffs |
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Post by Blake Bowman on Jun 21, 2019 14:33:42 GMT
I was pretty content with leaving the team be and losing the first, honestly. I like how my roster looks and it wasn't until day of pressure that I thought about making a deal. I had offers all season, but I didn't like anything I saw enough to make a deal.
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Post by Blake Bowman on Jun 21, 2019 14:35:02 GMT
Granted, it would have taken Kyle Singler, not the best talent, so maybe I should have pulled the trigger sooner.
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Amare Stoudemire
Sacramento Kings
Starter
Posts: 2,416
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Post by Amare Stoudemire on Jun 21, 2019 14:48:48 GMT
Those are literally terrible responses you guys know that correct? In what planet is it ok to say I was Kool with losing my 1st No gm would say that nor would a owner And what's more messed up is we go through such a exstensive process to TRY and get a team but some gm can lose 1st round picks and keep theirs?  ? That's the definition of ruining your teams future by simply losing 1st rounders for not doing your job as a gm Do I agree with the fact that Charlotte has more of a reason yes I do but that doesn't change the fact that you should make a move not just say I'll lose the pick. Or I kept singler instead? Really?? What's the point of having a process to earn a team and prove you'll be active and coherent, and put work in as a assistant to help with this process when you look around at other owners just letting 1sts fall to the floor like a snowflake in sky I'm really perplexed by this and sorry if it offends people just my opinion |
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Post by Jerry West on Jun 21, 2019 14:52:15 GMT
Charlotte couldn't literally trade their pick
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Post by George Gervin on Jun 21, 2019 15:05:00 GMT
Those are literally terrible responses you guys know that correct? In what planet is it ok to say I was Kool with losing my 1st No gm would say that nor would a owner And what's more messed up is we go through such a exstensive process to TRY and get a team but some gm can lose 1st round picks and keep theirs? ? That's the definition of ruining your teams future by simply losing 1st rounders for not doing your job as a gm Do I agree with the fact that Charlotte has more of a reason yes I do but that doesn't change the fact that you should make a move not just say I'll lose the pick. Or I kept singler instead? Really?? What's the point of having a process to earn a team and prove you'll be active and coherent, and put work in as a assistant to help with this process when you look around at other owners just letting 1sts fall to the floor like a snowflake in sky I'm really perplexed by this and sorry if it offends people just my opinion and others have already said it, but Charlotte was prohibited from trading their 2019 1st regardless of the hard cap situation he was in. Sure, could he have gutted $30 MM from that team to get a 1st? Yes. Does that even matter when you have a 65 win team with three top 15 players and it’s a 1st round pick in the late 20s? I say no. James Kay has earned the benefit of the doubt |
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Amare Stoudemire
Sacramento Kings
Starter
Posts: 2,416
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Post by Amare Stoudemire on Jun 21, 2019 15:16:24 GMT
Those are literally terrible responses you guys know that correct? In what planet is it ok to say I was Kool with losing my 1st No gm would say that nor would a owner And what's more messed up is we go through such a exstensive process to TRY and get a team but some gm can lose 1st round picks and keep theirs? ? That's the definition of ruining your teams future by simply losing 1st rounders for not doing your job as a gm Do I agree with the fact that Charlotte has more of a reason yes I do but that doesn't change the fact that you should make a move not just say I'll lose the pick. Or I kept singler instead? Really?? What's the point of having a process to earn a team and prove you'll be active and coherent, and put work in as a assistant to help with this process when you look around at other owners just letting 1sts fall to the floor like a snowflake in sky I'm really perplexed by this and sorry if it offends people just my opinion and others have already said it, but Charlotte was prohibited from trading their 2019 1st regardless of the hard cap situation he was in. Sure, could he have gutted $30 MM from that team to get a 1st? Yes. Does that even matter when you have a 65 win team with three top 15 players and it’s a 1st round pick in the late 20s? I say no. James Kay has earned the benefit of the doubt And once again ive said I understand that with Charlotte and he probably has earned the right, but it still wouldn't happen in real life which is what the ratings are based on, what we trade based on so why wouldn't making the nessecary trades matter like it does irl for general managers Oh I forgot bc we don't use real money, but if we did I promise James would be making a move I just think it's neglegance to disregard making a move bc your teams good now regardless of top 15 players Real teams go through this all the time And Orlando lost a huge opportunity to do something good with that pick but that stud Kyle singler just too hot to drop Lmao |
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Post by George Gervin on Jun 21, 2019 15:26:31 GMT
Jerry West and others have already said it, but Charlotte was prohibited from trading their 2019 1st regardless of the hard cap situation he was in. Sure, could he have gutted $30 MM from that team to get a 1st? Yes. Does that even matter when you have a 65 win team with three top 15 players and it’s a 1st round pick in the late 20s? I say no. James Kay has earned the benefit of the doubt And once again ive said I understand that with Charlotte and he probably has earned the right, but it still wouldn't happen in real life which is what the ratings are based on, what we trade based on so why wouldn't making the nessecary trades matter like it does irl for general managers Oh I forgot bc we don't use real money, but if we did I promise James would be making a move I just think it's neglegance to disregard making a move bc your teams good now regardless of top 15 players Real teams go through this all the time And Orlando lost a huge opportunity to do something good with that pick but that stud Kyle singler just too hot to drop Lmao If we separate from D5 and focus on real life instances of teams saying “no thanks” on picks, there are plenty of examples: - The Suns selling to Boston the 1st rounder that became Rajon Rondo - Teams that sell 2nd round picks ALL THE TIME and teams that buy them for up to $3 MM in cash. There’s been at least 50+ examples of this going back the last 10-12 years in the draft How are any of those different than forfeiture when the return is cash? Daryl Morey in Houston has also done this quite a bit where he either buys picks or just deals them away for cash or non-guaranteed contracts. |
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Amare Stoudemire
Sacramento Kings
Starter
Posts: 2,416
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Post by Amare Stoudemire on Jun 21, 2019 15:35:42 GMT
Bc your still using that assests
And please for the love of God don't bring up the Phoenix sun's one of most dumpest franchises and stupidest owners of all time. I'm pretty sure they would like to have that pick back
You also made my point
Orlando forfeitted pick 17 I believe right? What if he just forfeitted a rajon rondo? All for Kyle singler? We don't know what these young guys will be in all honesty not even Zion and if someone tells you they can then their lieing
And 2nd round sell offs are know where near pick 17
I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree on this
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Amare Stoudemire
Sacramento Kings
Starter
Posts: 2,416
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Post by Amare Stoudemire on Jun 21, 2019 15:58:06 GMT
I just looked at both their rosters and could find a solution for both teams without giving up a top tier player and at least getting some type of assest back
What a joke lol
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