Indiana and Toronto

[Larry Bird]

Indiana Trades:
77 Jeremy Lin $13,000,000 $13,000,000
74 Andre Roberson $5,000,000 $5,375,000 $5,750,000 $6,125,000
75 Iman Shumpert $11,088,900 $12,308,679
Georges Niang $5,308,804 $5,708,804
#10
$34,397,704

Toronto Trades:
85 Draymond Green $20,514,465 $22,771,056
76 CJ Miles $6,420,000 $6,800,000
68 Chinanu Onuaku $1,118,000 $2,013,518 $2,957,858
1st 2022 BKN
$28,052,465 ($28,052,465 x 125% = $35,065,581.25)

[Bryan Colangelo]

I accept. Confirmed with Ian that I can trade Green however they must be aware that he may opt in or opt out. Larry is well aware of the situation and hoping he can convince Green to opt in to his deal by the end of the season. Worst case, Larry clears a ton of cap space to re-sign him during FA.

[Larry Bird]

This is a gamble for me. However, it is one I am willing to take.

Draymond Green is one of the best "glue guys" in the NBA.
He is a star in his own right, but he does a lot of the secondary things for the Warriors.
He is an incredible defender. He is an adept passer. He can stretch it out to the 3. He can play small ball center. He is a player who gets into the head of other players.

My team received the #10 pick in the draft. That pick could be a position where a quality starter could be found. It is a lot to give up for Mr. Green. Hopefully he is able to see the faith we have in him. We have a growing collection of young players. We need some leaders. We feel Green can come in and be one of those leaders.

I get a 1st in the 2022 draft. Everyone is saying that draft should be pretty good.

[Alex English]

Draymond Green is opting out. This is all but guaranteed. None of the other players involved here have much value, so to me this is basically the 10th pick for BKN 2022 1st and a gamble at being able to sign Green in free agency.

[Bryan Colangelo]

Jun 7, 2019 16:06:40 GMT Alex English said:

Draymond Green is opting out. This is all but guaranteed. None of the other players involved here have much value, so to me this is basically the 10th pick for BKN 2022 1st and a gamble at being able to sign Green in free agency.

Pretty much. Having green on Indy now could help his chances at re-signing him during OFSA. Right now, Indy can’t do any of that with the contracts he has committed for next year. He’s giving up the 10th but also saving tons in cap space and future pick for this gamble.

[Ian Noble]

I accept.

[Kevin Hollis]

Players who have team or player options can’t be traded before those option decisions are made. In other words, a club can’t acquire a player with a team option in June, then decline that option before the end of the month as a way to create cap room.

Same goes with player options. This is when sign and trade deals happen. But since we don't have them, I don't think this is technically legal. Would normally have to wait until the Draymond Green decision is made and then a trade can happen if he stays.

If we allow this, then we should be allowed to trade expiring contracts as well until the rollover date. This is almost identical to me trading a player I have bird rights on, but yet, I am not allowed to. 

[Brian Scalabrine]

I think Kevin makes an excellent point

[Alex English]

Yeah, I agree this shouldn't be allowed. It may not be specified in the rules, but this breaks the intent of the rule against trading expiring contracts passed the deadline. Technically he may not be, but functionally speaking, Draymond is an expiring contract.

It should be against the rules to trade players with player options until the decision is announced, and trading players with team options should only be allowed on the condition that the option is accepted.

[Larry Bird]

I guess you’re saying he won’t accept that option? ...

[Walt Frazier]

Jun 7, 2019 22:11:33 GMT Larry Bird said:

I guess you’re saying he won’t accept that option? ...

All they're saying is he hasn't made the decision yet.

[Jeremiah Hill]

Off topic, agree with Kevin. But I don't know why Draymond would give up 20mil when someone will give him a 4 year 10 mil a year deal after next season.

[Alex English]

Jun 7, 2019 23:30:59 GMT Walt Frazier said:

Jun 7, 2019 22:11:33 GMT Larry Bird said:

I guess you’re saying he won’t accept that option? ...

All they're saying is he hasn't made the decision yet.

Can we not also say he's opting out? Maybe it's not official, but we've started taking votes. There isn't much debate with him. He's a textbook opt-out candidate, hit free agency for one more big contract, especially in a weak FA year.

[Jay Z]

With Green opting out and the Pacers decling Onuaku's team option, the Pacers will have around $23 million in cap space (using spotrac's cap projection of $109). Green's max contract (finishing his 7th season) is sitting at $32.7 million for the first year.

I don't want to heavily speculate here but Green is going to become a true FA (not restricted, not a strong "re-signing team" advantage), and the Pacers without secondary moves could be bid out of Greens price range.

[Walt Frazier]

Jun 8, 2019 0:34:17 GMT Alex English said:

Jun 7, 2019 23:30:59 GMT Walt Frazier said:

All they're saying is he hasn't made the decision yet.

Can we not also say he's opting out? Maybe it's not official, but we've started taking votes. There isn't much debate with him. He's a textbook opt-out candidate, hit free agency for one more big contract, especially in a weak FA year.

I guess that's true. If we're saying he has to make his decision before this trade can be legal, then it looks like it's an opt-out which means no trade can happen.

[Larry Bird]

This trade dead?

[Bryan Colangelo]

I rather wait for Ian Noble to say something. He said accept and I feel this shouldn't be an issue.

I'm pretty sure we've completed deals and then made rules up to not allow certain trades to be completed. Pretty sure I remember James Kay having a deal that was accepted and a rule was created to avoid deals like that again. Good on him on figuring out a loophole and taking advantage. That's what I'm doing as well.

No rules state that this is not allowed. If someone can prove that this is a rule in D5, i'll obey it however I found a loophole and took advantage of it. Larry is aware of what he's getting himself into and I feel that's very important. He's basically trading cap space for the 10th pick plus the change on keeping green.

[Jerry West]

Jun 10, 2019 16:09:34 GMT Bryan Colangelo said:

I rather wait for Ian Noble to say something. He said accept and I feel this shouldn't be an issue.

I'm pretty sure we've completed deals and then made rules up to not allow certain trades to be completed. Pretty sure I remember James Kay having a deal that was accepted and a rule was created to avoid deals like that again. Good on him on figuring out a loophole and taking advantage. That's what I'm doing as well.

No rules state that this is not allowed. If someone can prove that this is a rule in D5, i'll obey it however I found a loophole and took advantage of it. Larry is aware of what he's getting himself into and I feel that's very important. He's basically trading cap space for the 10th pick plus the change on keeping green.

To be fair he has 0 chance of keeping Green after this. He won't be able to offer him as much as other teams since he doesn't own his Bird Rights

[Kevin Hollis]

Indiana is over the cap. If Green opts out, then he doesn't get him - pretty simple.

[Bryan Colangelo]

Jun 10, 2019 16:37:24 GMT Jerry West said:

Jun 10, 2019 16:09:34 GMT Bryan Colangelo said:

I rather wait for Ian Noble to say something. He said accept and I feel this shouldn't be an issue.

I'm pretty sure we've completed deals and then made rules up to not allow certain trades to be completed. Pretty sure I remember James Kay having a deal that was accepted and a rule was created to avoid deals like that again. Good on him on figuring out a loophole and taking advantage. That's what I'm doing as well.

No rules state that this is not allowed. If someone can prove that this is a rule in D5, i'll obey it however I found a loophole and took advantage of it. Larry is aware of what he's getting himself into and I feel that's very important. He's basically trading cap space for the 10th pick plus the change on keeping green.

To be fair he has 0 chance of keeping Green after this. He won't be able to offer him as much as other teams since he doesn't own his Bird Rights

Fair argument, but let's put this into perspective. Teams who have cap space for this off season:

1) Hawks - They could max him out but would Green go to a rebuilding team
2) Boston - Probably a top option but does Ian want to spend the cash on Green or saving it next year for someone younger?
3) Nets - They could max him out but does Josh really want Green and paying him max money? Pretty sure he would prefer to have cap space to sign Kyrie
4) Detroit - still rebuilding, same as Atlanta
5) Indy - Will have 22 million in cap which has vets and great players to work around Green
6) Memphis - play green at SF? If so, then this is a good option. If he wants Green at PF, what about Jokic and Towns?
7) New Orleans - Not sure if they want to spend cash on green when rebuilding
8) New York - They're giving away Rubio for free, trying to rebuild
9) Philly - They got LMA so green could be a solid pairing option
10) Portland - only has 7 million in cap space
11) Utah - Bagley or Green at PF during a rebuild

In my opinion, Boston, Philly and Memphis have a good chance to get green. Again, this is if they want him. However, does philly want to max out green? Does Boston want to do another Kanter like deal with Green who's aging, and does Memphis want to play Green at SF? All of these are unknown and Larry still has a great shot based on the teams who have cap space this off season.

If Larry were to go against Hornets or Golden State or Bucks, hey good change he ends up there but that's not the situation.

[Bryan Colangelo]

Jun 10, 2019 17:17:40 GMT Kevin Hollis said:

Indiana is over the cap. If Green opts out, then he doesn't get him - pretty simple.

Incorrect

Indy Current Salary base for 2020: 115,624,371
Indy Salary after trade: $88,031,888
Cap Space: $22,968,112

This is IF green opts out. If he opts in, he has Green.

[Kevin Hollis]

Okay, so either way he doesn't get him. All I am saying is that if you can do this, then we should be allowed to trade BR players. It is the same exact thing, just formatted differently. 

[Bryan Colangelo]

Jun 10, 2019 17:31:15 GMT Jerry West said:

I'm not hating, I'm just saying that Indy can even offer him around 20 million per year. Between Philly, Boston, Hawks, Memphis and the Nets, it only takes one of them to offer him 25/28 million he would obviously take the extra 5/8 mil per year, and that's not even talking about the max.

Oh no, I'm with you and understand what you're saying. I'm just thinking Green probably doesn't want to play for a rebuilding team so Nets, Boston and Memphis have a great chance if they offer more than 22 million. What's also stopping Larry from clearing more cap space? If he trades CJ miles, that's an extra 6.8 million added. So many moving parts which can help Larry.

[Bryan Colangelo]

Jun 10, 2019 17:30:49 GMT Kevin Hollis said:

Okay, so either way he doesn't get him. All I am saying is that if you can do this, then we should be allowed to trade BR players. It is the same exact thing, just formatted differently. 

That's where we need Ian to make a ruling. I found a loophole and went for it.

[Jerry West]

I agree with you but he can't create any more significant Cap Space because we can't trade for expirings at this point of the season.

[Kevin Hollis]

Jun 10, 2019 17:37:28 GMT Bryan Colangelo said:

Jun 10, 2019 17:30:49 GMT Kevin Hollis said:

Okay, so either way he doesn't get him. All I am saying is that if you can do this, then we should be allowed to trade BR players. It is the same exact thing, just formatted differently. 

That's where we need Ian to make a ruling. I found a loophole and went for it.


Truth comes out. We all knew you were truly an American and not a Canadian. 

[Bryan Colangelo]

Jun 10, 2019 18:19:07 GMT Kevin Hollis said:

Jun 10, 2019 17:37:28 GMT Bryan Colangelo said:

That's where we need Ian to make a ruling. I found a loophole and went for it.


Truth comes out. We all knew you were truly an American and not a Canadian. 

I'm Canadian, just like these fellas

[Kevin Hollis]

Jun 10, 2019 18:53:32 GMT Bryan Colangelo said:

Jun 10, 2019 18:19:07 GMT Kevin Hollis said:

I'm Canadian, just like these fellas

We want more money. More money please.

[James Kay]

This isn’t really about trading a player with a player option - and whether or not that is the same as trading an expiring contract.

This is a “loophole,” I guess, that many GMs, including, I believe, myself, have taken advantage of in circumvention of the trade deadlines.

The trade deadline rules clearly state that teams qualifying for the playoffs cannot trade after April 1st, and that trading “resumes” once the off-season begins.

Yes, Toronto has been eliminated from the playoffs and therefore is in its offseason. However, they should be using next season’s salaries, as the rules clearly state that trading only resumes once expiring contracts enter free agency and the off-season begins - meaning the salaries roll over to the next season.

It’s up to Ian Noble if the prior lack of enforcement against this rule should allow for this particular trade to be processed. but future trades involving current trade-locked season salaries should not be permitted.

[Ian Noble]

Apologies for the delay on this guys, got a lot of shit going on IRL rn. I'll do my best when I get a moment.