Chicago Bulls - Portland TrailBlazers

[James Kay]

Honestly I don't like the idea of assistant GMs posting anything because of this.

I like that more people want to be involved in D5, and that's a good thing.

But I was an assistant GM for a brief time at the beginning of my D5 tenure and I wouldn't have posted a trade on my own. GMs obviously have put in the most time and planning for their team and if the final call is theirs, as it should be, then they should have final oversight over any posts like this.

This is not a shot at Amare, I respect your effort and time commitment but I just think it's always advisable to let the GM make the official posts.

[Elton Brand]

May 1, 2019 15:22:03 GMT Ian Noble said:

May 1, 2019 15:18:31 GMT Jerry West said:

Ian is clearly more experience than me. I asked him to reconsider his reject by message and if this is still how he feels so be it. Like I said I'm going to own to my mistakes and this was a bad start for me as a GM although I would have like to have those picks to get my own guys and the the cap space to sign someone I believe in.

That being said it is what it is. And the Portland TrailBlazers will be closed for trades at least until draft night to make sure I won't make the same mistake again then. I will bring to someone in who is also knowledgeable to make sure I don't make the same mistake again and keep my hand steady before I try to blow everything away in Portland.

I wouldn't overreact to my opinion on this Jerry - I'm at work and haven't had a chance to read your PM. Also there's the rest of the committee to make a decision and other GMs seem to think you've done ok. Just not me that's all

When I first became the GM of Utah I posted many trades trying to get Hassan Whiteside off my hands to tank and they all ended up being rejected. I really wanted to announce my arrival with a big trade, but it all it did was just give me a lot of criticism that overwhelmed me. I even remember Amare Stoudemire tearing into me after a failed trade. But don't beat yourself up, you shoudn't have to shut down your trades for the rest of the season just because of one trade. It'll get better.

[Jerry West]

May 2, 2019 5:08:58 GMT Shane Battier said:

We were still discussing the trade then. There is a reason why I used the word 'would'. Besides, you had a separate PM with my assistant and both of you had an agreement to post this trade which I never agreed to nor did I give my permission to Amar'e to go ahead and post it.

Your assistant started a separated message board to which I question the motive of and it was him to told me to publish the trade after I accepted the last offer. The message board I started included both of you and I'll be very happy to provide proof.

[Jerry West]

Despite of the result of this I will definitely not trade with the Bulls again and would advise every team to do so.

Not only that but after the trade was posted you still answered messages but never responded the trade thread to wait to read other's people opinion on it.

I would also appreciate not spreading false information that I went through your assistant to make this trade. like I said I can add people to both the message conversation so they can see who started what and when they started. Even when Amare was pushing for the deal I said twice there was no reason to move forward in the conversation without your input.

[Jerry West]

Also I would like to say that in Shane last offer I would include Jared Dudley and they would include the Spurs 2020 2nd round pick. Amare then offered me the trade that is posted here on another message board. I even asked about the other trade since despite me wanting to keep Dudley I would definitely trade for a mid 2nd rounder and a chance at another player.

Amare said that that trade was off the table and this were their offer.

So if it's that what makes a difference for Shane I will have no problem whatsoever altering the trade.

[Shane Battier]

May 2, 2019 8:04:12 GMT Jerry West said:

May 2, 2019 5:08:58 GMT Shane Battier said:

We were still discussing the trade then. There is a reason why I used the word 'would'. Besides, you had a separate PM with my assistant and both of you had an agreement to post this trade which I never agreed to nor did I give my permission to Amar'e to go ahead and post it.

Your assistant started a separated message board to which I question the motive of and it was him to told me to publish the trade after I accepted the last offer. The message board I started included both of you and I'll be very happy to provide proof.

I'm not trying to spread false information or whatsoever. The fact that I don't know that it was Amare who initiated to PM you confirms that I wasn't even aware of how things have transpired. I never gave him my permission to make the final say on the trade. He acted on his own despite my guidance for him to wait on what you have to say on our proposal. The first offer we would have proposed to you consists of only 2 picks but Amare initiated to propose 3 picks right away. It's clear that he wanted to fast-track things while I wanted to think of it more carefully. 

This is what I've replied to our thread when were still clearly discussing the trade:

"Replied to this thread before seeing that there was already a trade posted. I'm confused as well. We gotta hold our horses, boys."

We haven't even discussed and thought about the trade for hours and I was surprised that it was posted without even waiting for my confirmation. As you have said, you wanted to hear my final say on this but I never gave my permission for you to post it immediately. That's how things work here. I don't know if it's because you are a new GM but things like this always happen. I've been a part of many trade discussions where both sides seem to agree on a 3-week long discussion on a proposed trade only to see it totally die down. 

Like in the previous trade discussions I've been a part of, we talk of the main pieces of the trade first, and then if that is already settled, it is then when I ask for the fillers of the trades such as late 2nd rd picks. 

[Jerry West]

So once again Amare Stoudemire managed to take value of the Blazers assets. I'm about to resign and give him this job.

Anyway I'll give proof if asked about the offer with 4 2nd rounders and Dudley added. I'll give proof off that offer taking away for the one that was posted here. I'll give proof of Amare telling me to post it.

"Ive talked to shane and this is what were prepared to offer as lowry is 33 and just declining and getting stocked watched as we speak!Rajon rondo + kelly olynyk + evan turner + 19 chi 2nd + 20 sac 2ndFor Lowry + beasley"

It literally says I've talked to Shane, literally. That was the first message Amare sent on the other thread Amare created after the offer with the 4 picks.

I'm getting BS'ed. Is this some joke you're trying to justify now? You answered my messages and were online at least 12 hours before declining the trade on the thread. You could answer my messages but couldn't say no on the thread? Were you waiting for other's people opinions?

I'm getting the rug pulled under me. Is this some kind of vengeance for me taking the Blazers job instead of Amare or something? I don't know how I feel about being Portland GM after this and I would like to hear the league opinion on the matter.

[Shane Battier]

I'm done explaining my side. We could have talked about this in a professional manner but you want to do it in an insulting way. I don't mind other people seeing our conversations as well.

Of course Amar'e will say that we talked about proposed trades. He's my assistant after all. But I won't take full responsibilty of what he has done and agreed to when I never instructed him to do so.

You have been a part of the discussion we had on the Rondo trade, right? How many final offers we had then? Just like then, trades are proposed for the other party to make a counter-offer.

The only fault I see here is that I didn't reply to thread immediately. The opinions of other GMs are there but in no way their opinions will decide what I want to do with my team.

[Jerry West]

Insulting way? I'm really curious to know who I insulted. Or me telling people that I feel I got the rug pulled under me is insulting?

You're right one thing. So I'll stop giving opinions and wait for the league to say something on the manner and decide what's for the best.

[Dell Demps]

:popcorn:

[Shane Battier]

You've accused me of having an assistant to do this 'stunt' and spreading what you think as false information to the league.

Also, you said that you won't be doing trades with the Bulls and encouraged the rest of the league to do the same.

[Jerry West]

May 2, 2019 10:49:29 GMT Shane Battier said:

You've accused me of having an assistant to do this 'stunt' and spreading what you think as false information to the league.

Also, you said that you won't be doing trades with the Bulls and encouraged the rest of the league to do the same.

I mean either you or your assistant GM did. And would you trade with me again if I pulled this on you?

[Shane Battier]

After realizing that it's just a miscommunication on both sides, I would have to say yes on your query bec that's what a good GM should do.

I don't know why I keep on explaining my side when Amare made it clear that he acted on his own and the trade is still up for my official approval.

[Amare Stoudemire]

Im getting on a plane for boston to get their for games 3 and 4
When i land ill share but quickly this has tirned into a joke!
I made it stated shane had to accept and that i acted on it bc it wasant that far off what we were talking about.
Jerry of course this is no dig at you or the blazers but honestly bro i hate when people say their gonna re sign or not take a job bc of when their are people who really really care!
Also i highly doubt it goes through bc people are already hating it but that's not for me to judge! Also alex and shane cleared up my thinking on the cap penalities here and the timeline which would have played in these trade convos but none the less this is getting blown way out of proportion and its not shanes fault
I should NOT have told ok bc i dont think shane will mind about 1 2nd which he prob wouldnt if not for the tough cap penalties
Hence the reason i said must be accepted by Shane Battier bc i acted on it! Since it was close and i was drinking in milwaukee celebrating etc and i didnt want shane to lose the deal over a 2nd
Then the dudley and fourth 2nd came in from somewhere and here we are now!
Plus lets please stop sharing pms unless it shows collusion or something it really takes the p out of pm

[Kevin Hollis]

MTV

[Amare Stoudemire]

Alrighty, here it goes
I delete messages so i dont have them, and i dont like to share them bc then their not private! The highlights are their was a thread with all 3 of us, 1 with me and shane!
Im not gonna share every detail but it went something like the deal posted but with josh okogie and no 2nds i believe
It was talked about taking okogie out and adding the 2 2nds! Jerry than asked 4 a 3rd 2nd which i told him as long as it wasn't the sas 2nd im sure it would be fine and shane probably wouldnt have a problem with it since we were keeping josh! That part is 100% on me but i made it clear shane had to agree so if someone should be ridiculed ill take it!
Shane did ask me about the numbers and im not gonna lie, i was tipsy from being at the bucks game and i was than at a after party so my math was about 7 mil off but again i was pretty wasted by now!
I also was off on my thinking on how rhis hard cap comes into play on july 1st
In 720 its a little different where you have till the new season starts and then your penalized a pick the next draft so in my head im also thinkin shit thats plenty of time to get under! Even 2 months would be enough now but it would take alot of effort!
The other problem here is the percived value of some players! Value is not determined by 1 individual but by what the market sets as mr Hanamichi Sakuragi said!
Anyway this goes i should have waited to clarify completely with shane and thats my responsibility!! Im sorry, but in no way was anyone trying to spite anyone, get back at anyone for getting the job (i was actually happy Jerry West got the job as he is deserving! But you cant get pissed everytime something doesnt go right or mistakes are made or their are communication errors thats part of life and at the end of the day this is for fun and to talk to people with a similar hobby of nba! Of course we all want to win but even if you win 6 d5 titles in a row that changes nothing in life except you have a great d5 team! Its not like the owner of a real life team is going to see what youve been doing here and offer someone the real life gm job 😆
Mistakes happen and we learn and move forward and here their is no reason to go for the jugular, or get mad and what to step down or drop out of candidacies etc.
I dont set the value either for these players on the blazers, the market does and its going to be hard to get top dollar for these guys when people know the shape the blazers are in. Lowry will be a better player for a title contender as the 3rd or 4th option even on his contract bc he wont fall so hard he cant contribute to a really good team, but as the 1st or 2nd option on a team now thats difficult but most on here want to see more value for these players from the trc side so i thought jerry might actually be happy shane didnt want to do it. Anyhow this is over a 2nd round pick and some cap hardly the thing to go crazy about! I take full responsibility and if i need to step down to fix this issue i will bc i def dont want shane to be slandered or pay for my eagerness and not thinking with a clear head at the time i also def dont want Jerry West to think this was done in any kind of attack on him bc he got the blazer job! i was just trying to get us a player that could help us to a possible title or 2 and i didnt think this 1 2nd was the killer but again i misinterpreted the hard cap rules and i apologize to all involved!

[Brian Scalabrine]

The drama and bickering in D5 has gone up exponentially the last couple weeks. None of it is necessary.

So there's was a miscommunication, just move on. It's happened to all of us many times.

The long blocks of text, dramatic proclamations and back-and-forths are super annoying. This is a fantasy basketball board not a marriage

[Arvydas Sabonis]

lol

[Jerry West]

I made a final statement about this whole mess in the Blazers board. It will be my last, I strongly advise everyone to read it since it will be my last statement on the matter. I would also appreciate that if you have any comments about to post it here and not in that thread since it's dedicated for media related interviews only. Thank you

[Tim Duncan]

Well to avoid decisions of GMs changing due to other GMs opinions,a good rule would be for other GMs to post their opinions only after all parties accept this trade.Not saying that this is what has happenned but this way there is no way something like this can ever happen

[Alex English]

May 2, 2019 22:38:11 GMT Jerry West said:

Alex English I respect your opinion but and obviously have no problem with you making it public. But if you don't mind I specifically asked both here and the trade thread to don't respond to this statement here and to do instead on the trade thread if you feel so.

Sure. I assume you want to keep the press room thread clean and free from discussion?

May 2, 2019 18:19:49 GMT Jerry West said:

As for the people involved in this “stunt”, Shane Battier and Amare Stoudemire , I will never trade with any organization that is led by one of these individuals or any other organization that trades with them from now forward. Shane Batter is an insecure GM who waited to see other people opinion on the trade before making a decision on his own and used his Assistant has a scape-goat after accusing me of using him to make this trade happen. As for Amare Stoudemire, being drunk isn’t an excuse, it’s an act you take responsibility for and have no way of proving. I hope you’ll also take responsibility for your actions. So, I’ll repeat I’ll never trade with them again or any other organization that trades with them from now forward.

What lol? Is this for real? Is this the hill you want to die on?

This is such a minor issue. I'm confused about why this thing has even caused multiple wall-of-text rants from you and Amare, let alone such a dramatic proclamation like the one you're making.

We've had GMs back out of trades before. We've even had GMs post an acceptance, then later admit they realized what a mistake the trade is and that they'd like to not make the deal anymore. In the second case the team was still bound by the rules, so it was up to the other GM in the deal to decide if they want to continue or not, and I believe on multiple occasions the GMs agreed to kill the trade. Why would you want to make a trade where the other GM felt trapped and screwed over? We're all here to have fun, not become some ruthless fantasy basketball kingpin.

Not only do I think this is a non-issue, there are a couple GMs here that I would even encourage to pull this "stunt" because they consistently struggle to make good trades. GMs should be confident enough in their trades that they can see an opposing opinion and still believe in their own judgement. If not, maybe they shouldn't be making the trade in the first place.

[Jerry West]

Yes and thank you Alex English

Edit: Just so there is no confusion. The yes is regarding the first question about the Blazers media room.

[Dell Demps]

May 2, 2019 14:57:35 GMT Amare Stoudemire said:

Alrighty, here it goes
I delete messages so i dont have them, and i dont like to share them bc then their not private! The highlights are their was a thread with all 3 of us, 1 with me and shane!
Im not gonna share every detail but it went something like the deal posted but with josh okogie and no 2nds i believe
It was talked about taking okogie out and adding the 2 2nds! Jerry than asked 4 a 3rd 2nd which i told him as long as it wasn't the sas 2nd im sure it would be fine and shane probably wouldnt have a problem with it since we were keeping josh! That part is 100% on me but i made it clear shane had to agree so if someone should be ridiculed ill take it!
Shane did ask me about the numbers and im not gonna lie, i was tipsy from being at the bucks game and i was than at a after party so my math was about 7 mil off but again i was pretty wasted by now!
I also was off on my thinking on how rhis hard cap comes into play on july 1st
In 720 its a little different where you have till the new season starts and then your penalized a pick the next draft so in my head im also thinkin shit thats plenty of time to get under! Even 2 months would be enough now but it would take alot of effort!
The other problem here is the percived value of some players! Value is not determined by 1 individual but by what the market sets as mr Hanamichi Sakuragi said!
Anyway this goes i should have waited to clarify completely with shane and thats my responsibility!! Im sorry, but in no way was anyone trying to spite anyone, get back at anyone for getting the job (i was actually happy Jerry West got the job as he is deserving! But you cant get pissed everytime something doesnt go right or mistakes are made or their are communication errors thats part of life and at the end of the day this is for fun and to talk to people with a similar hobby of nba! Of course we all want to win but even if you win 6 d5 titles in a row that changes nothing in life except you have a great d5 team! Its not like the owner of a real life team is going to see what youve been doing here and offer someone the real life gm job 😆
Mistakes happen and we learn and move forward and here their is no reason to go for the jugular, or get mad and what to step down or drop out of candidacies etc.
I dont set the value either for these players on the blazers, the market does and its going to be hard to get top dollar for these guys when people know the shape the blazers are in. Lowry will be a better player for a title contender as the 3rd or 4th option even on his contract bc he wont fall so hard he cant contribute to a really good team, but as the 1st or 2nd option on a team now thats difficult but most on here want to see more value for these players from the trc side so i thought jerry might actually be happy shane didnt want to do it. Anyhow this is over a 2nd round pick and some cap hardly the thing to go crazy about! I take full responsibility and if i need to step down to fix this issue i will bc i def dont want shane to be slandered or pay for my eagerness and not thinking with a clear head at the time i also def dont want Jerry West to think this was done in any kind of attack on him bc he got the blazer job! i was just trying to get us a player that could help us to a possible title or 2 and i didnt think this 1 2nd was the killer but again i misinterpreted the hard cap rules and i apologize to all involved!

of course you're always drunk, no wonder!

[Ghazny Dimalen]

Just passing by...
This is an example of influence by opinion. Before involving other transaction you should wait first for the main team involve. So we can't affect the outcome of this trade thank you.

[Hanamichi Sakuragi]

What I did to Andrei Kirilenko was more annoying than what is happening and it did not escalate like this. 

At least we are finally simulating the real life annoyance and discomforts of some GMs / owners.

[Jeremiah Hill]

"We're all here to have fun, not become some ruthless fantasy basketball kingpin." 

Speak for yourself Alex English

[Chris Mullin]

Love the passion!