Indiana - Orlando

[Larry Bird]

Orlando Trades:
93 Amar'e Stoudemire -- $18,217,705 - $19,948,799 - $21,679,893 - $23,410,988
82 Tyson Chandler -- $13,107,837 - $13,604,188 - $14,100,538 - $14,596,888
73 Ishmael Smith -- $522,472
71 Tyler Honeycutt -- $775,000 - $809,875 - $884,293
70 Jordan Williams -- $473,604 - $762,195 - $884,293
$33,099,618

for

82 David West -- $10,000,000 - $10,000,000
81 Roy Hibbert -- $2,588,590 - $3,655,089
79 Tyrus Thomas -- $7,305,785 - $8,000,000 - $8,694,215 - $9,388,429
79 Paul George -- $2,406,240 - $2,574,120 - $3,282,003 - $4,470,088
78 Brandon Bass -- $4,250,000 - $4,250,000(PO)
75 Omri Casspi -- $1,341,960 - $2,277,306 - $3,313,480
2nd '12 (CHA)
2nd '12 (IND)
2nd '13 (IND)
$27,892,575


I accept this trade.
I get Amare and Chandler. I have to give up a lot of my youth, though. I am giving up Hibbert, Bass, George, and Casspi. All four of these guys should improve upon their current level of play now. Hibbert and George can reach star level. Bass is going to be really good on the Celtics, and I think the Cavs will utilize Casspi in a big way, allowing him improvement, as well. West is still a good scorer and will be a big expiring for him next season. I am also trading three seconds, including Charlotte's 2012 which is basically a 1st.

[Ian Noble]

I always have to reduce big trades like these down to the important pieces to be able to get my head around them.

Amare Stoudemire
Tyson Chandler

<->

Roy Hibbert
Paul George
David West
Brandon Bass
Tyrus Thomas's Contract

I would say the shitness of Tyrus Thomas's contract pretty much cancels out the positives of West and Bass, so essentially it's Stoudemire + Chandler <-> Hibbert + George.

The trade makes very little sense from Orlando's point of view in my opinion. Amare alone has led the Magic to the 4th best record in the East and now he wants to downgrade and gamble and make a deal that really relies on Paul George's potential.

I don't think it's that bad a trade, it's just that I know it's the start of Blake trading away all his talent that makes me apprehensive. I'd like to see what others have to say first.

[Glenn Robinson]

I know I'm not a trade committee member, I just wanted to say that while I don't HATE this trade, Stoudimire and Chandler are all star players and Roy Hibberts contract is coming up soon. So really you're trading away very good talent for Paul George's potential and a year of Roy Hibbert, risking his chances of signing somewhere else after next year.

[Larry Bird]

The trade can't work from my side without Thomas.
I don't have a 1st, but I can include the rest of my 2nds.

2nd '13 Ind
2nd '14 Ind
2nd '14 LAC

[Blake Bowman]

I accept, I still think Thomas is a good player, why do you dislike him Ian?

[Walt Frazier]

I am probably going to have to think about this before accept/reject as well, but I'll get started on some thought process as well.

Tyrus' negative value (he hasn't shown much talent in a bit, some injuries, big contract...what is to like?) definitely cancels out at least Brandon Bass' positives.

The 3 small players from Orlando cancel out the picks and Casspi from Indy.

Then we have, as Ian said:

Amar'e Stoudemire
Tyson Chandler

for

David West
Roy Hibbert
Paul George

On pure value here...it's not terrible.

I think there's a chance the real-life Knicks would move Amar'e for Paul George ...or something similar (if they didn't already have Tyson Chandler, of course). That is real-life though, and Amar'e could get hurt, and they have no insurance on his contract...plus, even though they don't want to admit it, Amar'e and Melo, for the most part, don't play great together. Paul George would be an awesome get in a lot of ways. They would probably be open to the idea of moving Tyson Chandler for Roy Hibbert & David West (to make contracts work). This would probably assume the Knicks are struggling, nearing the trade deadline.

ANYWAY, I'm just trying to get my thoughts out, you can all read them or not, don't quite have a vote yet.

I think the value really isn't terrible, but in the game, there are no injuries. That said, real-life values affect our values in game. If Amar'e were to have an injury and really lowered his stats and productivity and athleticism noticeably, his rating drops in the game, making his contract pretty horrible. So, some of those real-life worries do apply here, even though we don't have injuries in the game.

I'll probably vote by tomorrow at the latest.

[Alex English]

I think this is actually a fairly decent trade. Especially since Amare is going to be dropped to an 87 after the season. Indiana will be a power house team if this goes through too. Chandler - Stoudemire - Granger - Ellis - Collison, besides Collison that's a championship quality team.

[Glenn Robinson]

You also have to consider, David West isn't getting any younger and his rating could decrease. ALSO, Hibberts contract only runs through next season, so Orlando is taking a risk there as well.

[Otis Smith]

Is there bird rights in this league? If not then Orlando won't be able to keep Hibbert after he expires.

[Ian Noble]

There are Bird Rights, but Orlando would not possess them if he traded for Hibbert now.

I'm going to accept this trade.

[Walt Frazier]

I'm going to go ahead and accept. It's not a perfect trade, but rarely is a trade perfect.

It's not bad enough to reject, and it's not unrealistic enough to reject...just comes at a bit of an odd time for a top team to make the trade.

[Andrei Kirilenko]

Accept

[Ian Noble]

Orlando needs to cut 1 player before this is accepted.

[Blake Bowman]

Why would I not have his bird rights?

[Ian Noble]

See: Bird Rights.

A team is given the 'Bird Rights' to one of their players if that player has not changed teams for three seasons or more. Bird Rights allow teams to exceed the salary cap when re-signing players.

[Jackie Moon]

This is a good trade for ORL value wise but a terrible one overall since Hibbert will be walking. Once Hibbert walks, he'll be stuck with Tyrus Thomas' terrible contract and only the hope of Paul George becoming a superstar. Dont really see how this is acceptable.

[Alex English]

Why will Hibbert be walking? He's got almost $30 million in cap space for that year right now.

[Glenn Robinson]

Sept 24, 2012 0:46:17 GMT Alex English said:

Why will Hibbert be walking? He's got almost $30 million in cap space for that year right now.

If Orlando isn't competing next year, I could see Hibbert walking.

[Dominique Wilkins]

Accept

[Shaquille O'Neal]

you accepted this trade? what's the matter with my Bosh trade -_-

[Magic Johnson]

Sept 24, 2012 6:57:50 GMT Shaquille O'Neal said:

you accepted this trade? what's the matter with my Bosh trade -_-

I think I can explain this one.

Bosh is still considered a top 5 PF in the NBA so he's value is still higher then most despite teaming up with LBJ and Wade.

Amare's stock has fallen since he left PHX with injuries and inconsistent play with Carmelo which is gonna cause his ratings to go lower and lower (right now 93 and next season he's gonna be at 88).

Amare had quality year in 2011, but the problem with that quality year is that it was only for 35-40 games and since Melo showed up it's gotten worse.

[Deleted]

Amare is better than Bosh, period end of statement.

[thegame]

Sept 24, 2012 17:43:12 GMT Vlade Divac said:

Amare is better than Bosh, period end of statement.

Maybe in 2005, but the man clearly has lost a step from then. Bosh is better now.

[Deleted]

Sept 25, 2012 6:10:12 GMT @thegame said:

Sept 24, 2012 17:43:12 GMT Vlade Divac said:

Amare is better than Bosh, period end of statement.

Maybe in 2005, but the man clearly has lost a step from then. Bosh is better now.

I don't see it.

[Glenn Robinson]

If they were both put on a team where they were the first option, Bosh would be the better player.

[Ian Noble]

I think the point that Mr Troy Bolton is trying to make is that the trades are not dissimilar from each other (see Indiana - Miami), which is certainly a fair point to make, there's not much in it between Bosh and Amare.

One major difference I can think of instantly is that the Heat are the league leading force right now and trading Bosh would be crazy, that was certainly used as a reason for rejection in that trade. But Orlando are doing well with Amare also and trading him doesn't make much sense either.

I'm at work I don't have much time to type right now.

[Deleted]

Sept 25, 2012 13:37:46 GMT Glenn Robinson said:

If they were both put on a team where they were the first option, Bosh would be the better player.

Totally disagree.

[Glenn Robinson]

Totally disagree.

That's fine. But Stoudimire has always benefited from a good supporting cast. Nash is a great example of this. Once Stoudamire left PHX, he was never the same player. Blame it on injuries or whatever you will, but Bosh was a lot more dominant, especially when he was on the Raptors with nobody around him. They are very different players as well, Stoudamire is a much more intimidating, powerful player, and Bosh was more finesse and had a good post/back to the basket game.

[Larry Bird]

Well, with Amare needing a supporting cast, I have Granger and Ellis. For front court help and defensive help Chandler will go a long way. Just hope Collison can spread the ball around enough.

[Deleted]

Sept 25, 2012 20:32:55 GMT Glenn Robinson said:

Totally disagree.

That's fine. But Stoudimire has always benefited from a good supporting cast. Nash is a great example of this. Once Stoudamire left PHX, he was never the same player. Blame it on injuries or whatever you will, but Bosh was a lot more dominant, especially when he was on the Raptors with nobody around him. They are very different players as well, Stoudamire is a much more intimidating, powerful player, and Bosh was more finesse and had a good post/back to the basket game.

How many times did the "dominate" Bosh lead the Raptors to the playoffs IN THE POST-JORDAN EAST!?!?!?!?!?! To me, it's not even close that Amare is better than Bosh. He always has been and always will be. In my opinion, unless a chance occurs within the real life Knicks, Amare needs to be traded to another team where he can be the superstar.

As far as this trade, Indiana raped. However, their GM has been a good one for a long time and I am happy to see him catch a break. Plus, you know Orlando is going to trade Chandler and Amare at some point; let's just get it over with.