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Post by Charles Barkley on Apr 25, 2014 3:29:47 GMT
New York Knicks Send:
93 Derrick Rose $16,669,629 $17,832,627 $18,995,624
75 Gerald Wallace $9,000,000 $9,800,000 $10,768,000 $11,842,480 (PO)
Total out: $25,669,629
Houston Rockets Send:
78 Larry Sanders $3,053,368 $4,268,609
78 Danny Granger $14,021,788
72 Jason Terry $5,000,000
74 Nick Young $2,500,000
BKN 2014 1st
NYK 2015 1st
HOU 2016 1st
PHX 2017 1st
Total out: $24,575,156
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Post by James Kay on Apr 25, 2014 3:37:20 GMT
wow
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Post by Charles Barkley on Apr 25, 2014 3:43:57 GMT
I accept.
My breakdown of the trade:
Sanders was part of the Millsap deal as were Granger and Terry. And I keep the piece I liked most in that deal in Len. Sanders is alright but can be replaced by Davis. Same goes for Nick Young, he's good but I can just try to resign him if I'd like.
The BKN pick I inherited, so I can't say much there.
NYK pick was a piece in the Gasol deal.
My 2016 is interesting as I have crazy cap room and 2 lotteries this year.
PHX 2017 wasn't really even the second piece in the Kawhi deal.
I get D-Rose. Who was, in my opinion, the 2nd best player in the league before the ACL tear. If he retains even 85% of his ability, he is still an All-Star PG. And if the Bulls can land Melo IRL this off-season, it will be even better.
About the tanking and direction of my team:
If D-Rose couldn't carry his weight with Bynum and Anderson in NY in the East, I'm still in the lottery from being in the West. And I am phantom tanking with the NOP anyways.
All in all, I can now attract a marquee free-agent to pair with my two lotto's. I still have 2 picks next year and a pick in 2016 and 2017.
My new lineup:
Rose-Bledsoe-Oladipo-Davis-Hawes
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Post by Charles Barkley on Apr 25, 2014 3:45:50 GMT
Also wanted to add in that with the way these salary wars are going, Blake and Harden will likely command more than Rose this off-season. So rather make a legit run and tell them they would be the alpha dog in Houston, I go out and get Rose for a cheaper contract but have to give up some pieces.
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Post by Charles Barkley on Apr 25, 2014 4:15:55 GMT
How do I go to a 6-8 seed? The T'Wolves have a lineup of all 80+ besides McGee and is 8th? I don't see your logic in that.
How doesn't it make sense for me? I have loads of cap space coming up still. I have two lotteries, Oladipo, and Bledsoe. Bledsoe gets his boost, oladipo gets his boost. I get two decent guys in this draft, and I am rolling 7 deep with Hawes. Or, I use Rose to sign another big name free agent, pair them with my guys, and I'm winning in 2016. I cleared a shit ton of cap space for that year specifically. I was making a run for guys during that year. So, now I have to make a run for one less guy.
Rose is 26, how is 26 old? Please explain that, I am dying to know. I'll take an 85% Rose than a 100% MCW when he is 26. His knees are a question mark of concern, which is why I didn't give up Oladipo or Bledsoe.
I mean, everyone says draft picks are a gamble aren't they? I just turned 4 scratch offs to arguably the best PG in the league if he comes back 100% healthy. And if he comes back at 85% of his former self, Chicago gets a big name FA this summer like everyone expects, Rose goes from being D-Rose to being Chris Paul-like, and I've still traded 4 gambles for a PG 3 years removed from an MVP.
I've taken 4 gambles and rolled them all in to one gamble, a gamble I believe in a lot more than 4 draft picks.
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Post by Charles Barkley on Apr 25, 2014 4:18:42 GMT
Billy, if a team is over the cap they can sign any player to the minimum contract. Or did you forget this basic rule? You can go ahead and have your ~30 million in cap space this off-season. You'll pay 20 million for Blake or Harden if you are lucky enough to land them, which is still cheaper than Rose.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 30, 2024 8:55:54 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2014 4:22:01 GMT
This will get denied. Not saying it should. But i think Rose is done. Another Grant Hill. So many good players whos days end because of bad knee injuries...Rose,Bynum,Arenas,etc. Would have loved to see these guys make a comeback. Rose and Bynum have a chance. But at least Rose has the best chance. Well at least most of you will say so. I personally dont see Rose ever being the same.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 30, 2024 8:55:54 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2014 4:24:40 GMT
And yes i took a big risk on Bynun. Would be a risk for Houston as well. But a better chance...maybe
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Post by Charles Barkley on Apr 25, 2014 4:40:05 GMT
A. JR is comparing different injuries across different levels of athletes. And his second statement should discredit anything and everything he has to say about this matter.
B. Yes at best I'd be a 6-8 seed. My point was never to strike it big in the 2015 draft or else I would have acquired a 2015 lottery for Kawhi when I could.
C. The plan was to clear cap room for the 2015-2016 off-season, I think if you look at the trades I've made, that can very EASILY be seen. So who was I looking to sign that off-season? Well, they'd probably be a 25-26 year old player in the high 80's, right below where D-Rose currently sits.
D. Build around Hawes? Who said I was building around Hawes? Yeah, he is a fantastic center that I happen to think very highly of, but was never intended to be a center piece.
E. Bledsoe isn't the primary ball-handler in real life, Dragic is. So I think he would be fine with his new role.
F. I don't really understand why I care about Billy's and JR's opinions. One is a whiny bitch and the other is a jackass, and it took me roughly 3 months to figure that out.
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Post by Charles Barkley on Apr 25, 2014 5:17:57 GMT
I'm glad you had basically nothing to say in your previous post, considering you seem to always have something to say.
I mean, I'm getting D-Rose, can I honestly sign a better player in free agency IF D-Rose comes back to 100%? What about if Rose is 95% with the way Noah is playing? 85% with the way Noah is playing and Melo?
This is the same D-Rose that cried at a presser because he was so thankful his fans and brand stuck with him. Are you really saying he doesn't have what it takes to come back? Saying he is finished? But, a 35 year old Kobe with 2 devastating injuries can't be counted out?
So, here has been my plan from the get-go, I'll show my cards, since Billy has shown my PM to him that stated "You've taken one of the most promising teams in the EAST to gamble in free agency, because that is any more practical" Context of the previous quote: Billy was being a whiny bitch about me not giving his pick back, I mean, I paid top-dollar to get mine back, but apparently Billy gets to pay 50 cents on the dollar.
Anyways, to my plan. My plan was to hold for a bit and see where my team was. My team started 5-10 and didn't honestly look like a team ready to contend in the West. I then traded a PG who wasn't better than Bledsoe and a decent, and in some views good, big man in Henson., for my pick which was at the time in the lottery, it then stayed in the lottery for the coming months in the sim. I then traded Kawhi for a high lottery, Hawes, and a future 2017 because I am not a believer in Kawhi or the Spurs in 3 years. During this time, I then sat patiently for the best deal for Millsap and Gasol. Because the previous Rockets GM couldn't crack the playoffs and I wasn't beating out LAC or Minny for the 8th seed. I then moved Millsap and Gasol for expirings, picks, and young guys to rebuild and find cap room to land a marquee free agent or two. BECAUSE EVERYONE WHO IS SMART KNOWS THAT TO WIN YOU CAN EITHER HIT BIG IN FREE AGENCY OR DRAFT A FEW STUDS, WHICH IS WHY THERE IS A LARGE TALENT DISPARITY IN THE LEAGUE.
So now, instead of signing two studs and getting good picks this year, I now only have to sign 1, and guess what, I have the allure of D-Rose, no state income tax, and alluring city of Houston to do so. I like my odds a lot better than I like the chances of Brooklyn signing Blake, Harden, Cousins et al. in these next few years. Because if MCW doesn't pan out, who wants to play on the cellar dweller Brooklyn Nets.
Having D-Rose keeps my team bad enough for the lotto in 2015 if I choose; it also gives me a better chance to sign a big name guy.
And on another note, I don't have to answer to you Billy, or to you JR about my trades. I have to answer to Josh, Walt, Bryan, and Ian.
If any of those four have questions, ask. I will respectfully answer them. As I have done 90% of the time in the past. I have respect for 27 out of the other 29 GM's in this league. And it just so happens the two I don't, know it. And it just so happens they have downgraded what I felt was a very very good trade for myself. The others that got rejected, I thought were good, I figure if I felt this was very very good, it will pass.
Like I said previously, I understand I am taking a gamble. I have two very promising insurance policies. But it is a gamble for someone I feel can be the 3rd best player in the league now. At least top 15. And for what? 3 expirings, Sanders, and 4 small gambles in draft picks. So, I doubled down. I took my gambles, rolled it into a bigger one.
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Post by Charles Barkley on Apr 25, 2014 5:29:26 GMT
Yes, please oh please give me Bogut on the tail end of his career. Please give me a guy who shoots so inefficiently and failed to show up in a play-off game because of nerves in Derozan. Please give me Serge Ibaka. On second thought, yeah, give me Ibaka. Why can't I sign him? Because I said I was waiting for 2015-2016 off-season?
And since when do Bird Right's mean a guy is unattainable? If I offer 5 million more than the team holding the BR's and am in a better position to win, wouldn't the player logically sign with me? What if Houston is more attractive than Milwaukee or OKC or Detroit or Denver or Minny or New Orleans? Better yet, ask your assistant why its "Houstatlantavegas"? And not "Minneapolismilwaukeedenver"?
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Apr 25, 2014 5:32:22 GMT
Good trade, gambles for both. Luckily injuries don't matter in this game so he'll stay a 93 forever.
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Post by Charles Barkley on Apr 25, 2014 5:41:19 GMT
I'm glad you had basically nothing to say in your previous post, considering you seem to always have something to say. I mean, I'm getting D-Rose, can I honestly sign a better player in free agency IF D-Rose comes back to 100%? What about if Rose is 95% with the way Noah is playing? 85% with the way Noah is playing and Melo? If, If, If, too much speculation. Your banking on both speculation and free-agency, a very bad duo. I never said Rose was done or could not return to 85-100% All I said was that he is a player who relies on his agility and speed and such players have a short window of time to compete for the Larry O'Brien. Again, I don't think you have the time and resources to acquire such pieces. Do what you got to do. You've criticised every trade I've been apart of to date and this is the first time I've chimed in on one of yours. If you can't take it, don't dish it. I seem to be taking it like a champ. You came at me with this. I'm giving it back. Not my fault you didn't articulate your dislike of my opinions in the comments I've made previously. P.S. What is highlighted in bold, is exactly what you did. Gambling in free agency? Yeah, you said near exactly those words. Speculation? Isn't this whole fucking game speculation? I speculate player X isn't worth N. So I offer N-R. I specuatae player Y is worth N, so I offer N. I speculate D-Rose past production will amount to a certain future production level given his injuries and I speculate that what I am giving up is worth less than what his production level will be. I speculate you're a lottery team next year without your pick. |
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Post by Charles Barkley on Apr 25, 2014 5:46:11 GMT
Yes, please oh please give me Bogut on the tail end of his career. Please give me a guy who shoots so inefficiently and failed to show up in a play-off game because of nerves in Derozan. Please give me Serge Ibaka. On second thought, yeah, give me Ibaka. Why can't I sign him? Because I said I was waiting for 2015-2016 off-season? And since when do Bird Right's mean a guy is unattainable? If I offer 5 million more than the team holding the BR's and am in a better position to win, wouldn't the player logically sign with me? What if Houston is more attractive than Milwaukee or OKC or Detroit or Denver or Minny or New Orleans? Better yet, ask your assistant why its "Houstatlantavegas"? And not "Minneapolismilwaukeedenver"? They were just examples, relax. Besides, judging one player on his first playoff appearance is rash, don't you think? Derozan has a great career ahead of him. And you can't sign Serge Ibaka because you have $13.9M in cap space this off-season which won't be enough to sign him, trust me  Bird rights are always a red flag to General Managers who go the Free-Agency route because you can't offer anymore money than the team holding the BR's. Again, money, money, money. Nothing means more to a young free-agent on the rise than a big fat check. I don't care if your Denver, Milwaukee, or the Charlotte Hornets. No I don't think it is rash. He choked. What happens in the future? If a player doesn't have the mindset to handle a first round game at home, what next? Can I trust him to take the shot with the game on the line? I don't think Ibaka is worth 14 million. If another GM wants to pay him that, be my guest. With BR's what happens when I value a player more than them? If their valuation is X, and mine is X+N, and they aren't willing to offer X+N, wouldn't I then get the player to sign? Because, again, money, money, money. Nothing means more to a young free-agent on the rise than a big fat check. I don't care if you're Denver, Milwaukee, or the Charlotte Hornets. (your words not mine) |
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Post by Charles Barkley on Apr 25, 2014 5:47:27 GMT
You seem to just keep articulating the same point over and over while not understanding what I am saying. So I am done.
P.S. WAS doesn't hold BRs on Gay
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James McGowan
Former Knicks GM
Rookie
Posts: 95
May 10, 2021 11:27:27 GMT
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HOU - NYK
Apr 25, 2014 5:51:19 GMT
via mobile
Post by James McGowan on Apr 25, 2014 5:51:19 GMT
I accept, as a Bulls fan it's hard to trade Rose but by trading him like this,paired with Wallace is the only way I could dump Wallace without giving up assets and get nothing in return.
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Deleted
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Nov 30, 2024 8:55:54 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2014 6:27:08 GMT
Never said it was a bad trade. Just stahelthat with injuries you never know. I dont know why you always get in others business and its ok. Funny things is i was kinda tryin to help..
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Apr 25, 2014 11:50:50 GMT
Hmm I'll accept. The winner of this trade will ultimately be decided by Rose's health. Houston either stole one of the best point guards in the league or mortgaged his future
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Deleted
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Nov 30, 2024 8:55:54 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2014 13:40:25 GMT
Hmm I'll accept. The winner of this trade will ultimately be decided by Rose's health. Houston either stole one of the best point guards in the league or mortgaged his future I disagree because I think New York, no matter what, will walk away from this trade happy due to the fact that both his 2014 and 2015 1sts, the latter he reacquires, go up in value. Houston, however, will be dependent upon Rose's health but in a league like this you need to gamble. If Rose busts, then Houston starts the rebuilding process yet again. Hence, I really like it for New York and admire Houston's audacity. |
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Apr 25, 2014 14:09:13 GMT
Lol, injuries BARELY matter because guys don't get injured in the game.
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Post by Bryan Colangelo on Apr 25, 2014 15:40:47 GMT
I feel horrible for James, if we didn't wait for the season to start buyum would of been a 86 and Wallace would of been a 85 with a Rose who is 93. Thats pretty deadly lineup and would of done some damage. Now Wallace and Buyum are considered "horrible contracts" and unmovable. James made it clear in his trade block that he was willing to deal Rose if someone took Wallace. James has been around here a long time, i think he's a great GM so i would not question why he did this.
Now Houston, as Josh said its either a big steal or a horrible move. Houston has always said he was looking to rebuild and that is the reason why he traded Millsap and Gasol. Now his moves are questionable since Rose with Millsap and Gasol would of been amazing. But one thing Houston always said, he wanted players who he could build around to win. I think everyone here would agree, Rose is someone everyone wants or take a chance on.
I accept.
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Post by Charles Barkley on Apr 25, 2014 15:54:18 GMT
I mean, my actions in this trade may be questionable. But, Rose was just put on the block a few days ago or so.
I wouldn't have been able to get Rose without moving Millsap or Gasol, as the pieces from those deal are in this deal. I have 2 lottery picks this year. Possibly 1 next year.
I was looking to get 2 stars in free agency to pair with Dipo and my 3 picks over the next 2 years. I had mentioned to Ian, Alex, and Jeremiah previously that I was going to attempt to sign a big free agent or two this off-season or next. Rose's stock has fallen. I didn't have to give up any of my lotto's this year, and I still have a pick in each of the next 3 years. Did I mortgage all of my future with this trade? No, not all of it. I kept the most valuable assets on my team.
And it is a good trade for James. But, will he be happy if Rose comes back and is really good? Probably not. I go from being 2 big-ish free agents away, to only being one away. And now, I have a big name guy and am in a better position to win to attract that 1 key free agent.
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Post by Shaquille O'Neal on Apr 25, 2014 16:14:32 GMT
What if Houston is more attractive than Milwaukee or OKC or Detroit or Denver or Minny or New Orleans?  |
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Post by Charles Barkley on Apr 25, 2014 16:32:08 GMT
Sorry Shaq, I didn't mean to do you dirty like that.
But I really like the CJ10 gif, one of my top favorite baseball players of all time
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Post by Ian Noble on Apr 25, 2014 17:47:16 GMT
I would accept, but I see this as the first in a series of trades that are going to make me wish I'd dealt for New York's draft picks.
New York started off with a solid pairing of Dwight Howard and Derrick Rose and, with every move that's been made, instead of building around those two, New York's been dismantled.
You don't have to include Derrick Rose just to get rid of Gerald Wallace and his contract. You really don't. At least you don't if you *try* hard enough. Or you wait until Wallace's contract becomes a valued, necessary piece that enables a bigger trade to get made... there's just so many ways.
I think this one's going to get passed, but I personally reject.
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Bob McAdoo
Former Pistons GM
Rookie
Posts: 168
Jan 1, 2015 19:27:55 GMT
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Post by Bob McAdoo on Apr 26, 2014 1:28:06 GMT
Lol, injuries BARELY matter because guys don't get injured in the game. The corpse of Derek Rose is very valuable, yes indeed. |
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Post by Alex English on Apr 26, 2014 1:42:31 GMT
I'm going to accept. We can't know enough about Rose's future health to fairly judge this trade. So if both of these GMs are ok with it then that's good enough for me.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Apr 26, 2014 2:45:19 GMT
Sorry guys, had an overnight gig last night. Saw this trade but didn't have the brain power to vote accordingly.
Anyway, after reading through the thread, I'm going to reject.
But, trade is at 3 accept and 2 reject so I believe trade is passed.
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Post by Ian Noble on Apr 26, 2014 8:25:22 GMT
3-2! A close one. But it's passed.
Trade passed.
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