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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 22, 2014 15:05:16 GMT
Hey guys, Love's Rebound Ratings are still a joke. We've had disagreements in the past about his overall rating (which, btw, Yahoo has him as the 4th best player, per game, in the NBA. I know we have to factor in Defense here but I'm still not sure his 89 isn't slightly low.)
Anyway, his rebound ratings are at 88O and 90D.
In real life, he is 2nd in overall rebounding again (this time behind DeAndre Jordan...) with 13 rebounds a game. 3.3 of his boards are OReb, meaning 9.7 are DReb.
Love is 8th in OReb this season (although he has led that category multiple times in the past), and he is 1st in the league in DReb, which he has been one of the top 2 every year the past few seasons.
How is he rated 88 and 90? In our league, the 88 (OREB) is tied for 7th, but again he has led this category many times. The best in our league is a 95.
Kevin Love's OREB should be at least 93.
In our league, the 90 (DREB) is tied with about 4 or 5 others for 3rd, but he has always been a league leader (top 2 or 3) in this, and is leading it this season. The best in our league is a 97.
Kevin Love's DREB should be at least 95.
Please find me some real evidence against Kevin Love being a top 2 or 3 rebounder in this league, both this year, and every year over the past 4-5 seasons.
Kevin Love has also increased his APG from the 2-2.5 range in each of the past 3 seasons, to 4.1 this season. Meanwhile, his TO's are steady in the 2.3 range (were 2.2 last year and 2.3 the year before). This deserves a solid increase in his passing. He's still working on his game and making improvements.
Anyone worried about his points, FG%, FT%, or 3PT% from last year (when we had our last big debate), need only look at this year, when he is HEALTHY again.
He's back up to the 2nd highest FG% of his career at 45.9%.
His 3PT% is up to the 2nd highest of his career at 38.6%.
His FT% is back in line with his career % (81.2) at 80.2 right now.
His points are 2nd highest in his career, at 25.
Just to put it right out there, this is his current stat line.
45.9/38.6/80.2 shooting. Making 2.4 3's a game (most in his career)...he's pretty damn elite here folks, much better than his current 82 rating.
25 pt / 13 rb / 4.1 ast / 2.3 TO / .9 stl / .4 blk / just 1.9 fouls (been improving that over his career, playing smarter D.
I just see a lot of areas, but mainly, his 82 3pt rating, and his 88 - 90 Rebound ratings, that are a joke to Kevin Love's talent level.
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Post by James Kay on Jan 22, 2014 17:11:03 GMT
Only people ranked above him are KD(94), Lebron(98), Howard(92), Dirk(90), Kobe(93), Melo(92), CP3 ( 91), DWade(96), Wesbtrook, (90), Deron Williams(90).
Looking at this list, it looks like several of their ratings should probably be adjusted.
Kobe should probably be a 91.
Love should probably be a 90.
Durant should be better than DWade, so I'm thinking 95 for Durant ( he's really taken his game to a new level this year without Westbrook) and Wade should be a 93 or 92. The Flash is godly when he plays at his best, but we see that less and less, and that's when he even makes it on the court.
I also think Deron should be an 87 or 88. He hasn't played at 90 level in quite some time.
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Post by Bryan Colangelo on Jan 22, 2014 17:42:34 GMT
i agree, his numbers are just insane. He should be a 91 - 93
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 23, 2014 1:34:41 GMT
Yea forgot to mention that his 25ppg are 4th in the NBA.
ijs...
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 23, 2014 3:50:34 GMT
If it's so easy to do this well, why aren't there more players on "bad teams" in the top 5 in scoring and top 2 in rebounding?
It's a cop out to use the "empty stats" argument. He's either putting them up or he isn't. He has the talent and ability to score, the %'s tell the story.
If this was a guy on a bad team shooting 38% but taking half the team's shots in order to score the 4th most points in the league, then I'd be right with you. He's simply not that guy though.
He's efficient from the field, from the line, and from 3pt range, and he's one of the very, very best rebounders in the league.
He's also improved his passing.
Tell me where I'm wrong on any of this. You're lying if you do btw.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 23, 2014 3:51:55 GMT
And yes, it does piss me off when I do lots and lots of research, but someone comes on here and tries to argue against all of that with one sentence with a "fun" (and false) little cliche.
Do your own research at least. Respect this process that much.
If you can't or won't, then just don't say anything.
Thank you.
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Post by Mike Krzyzewski on Jan 23, 2014 14:33:08 GMT
I definitely agree that Love deserves an increase. 82 is way to low for him.
Definitely would be for increasing his O & D rebounding stats and maybe increasing his passing some as well. Not sure of his FG, 3PT ratings but they may also be candidates for an increase.
I certainly think the adjustments should move his overall to the upper 80's range.
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Post by Alex English on Jan 23, 2014 18:17:34 GMT
I definitely agree that Love deserves an increase. 82 is way to low for him. Definitely would be for increasing his O & D rebounding stats and maybe increasing his passing some as well. Not sure of his FG, 3PT ratings but they may also be candidates for an increase. I certainly think the adjustments should move his overall to the upper 80's range. His overall is currently an 89 actually, and the debate is about raising him into the 90s. I'm kind of indifferent to it, the problem with him is that his team's have always sucked, so it's hard to take his numbers as seriously as a player on a really good team. I think if his rebounding ratings get a boost and his overall is like 90-91 then that's fine. |
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 24, 2014 2:03:42 GMT
Wow Barber, your ratings are notoriously the worst, but this takes the cake.
25 points, 13 rebounds, 4 assists, no flaws in his shooting %'s...
I don't care what team he plays for, putting that at an 84-85? Or even thinking he might be there? Come on.
No one cares that he plays for a team that is never put together well? He does everything he can possibly do, 4th in the league in scoring, FOURTH IN THE LEAGUE IN SCORING!
2nd in the league rebounding, SECOND. GREAT assists for a big man (only about one less than many starting PGs out there). %'s are all marvelous, especially for a big man. Literally, you are clueless suggesting he is down there.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 24, 2014 2:05:08 GMT
Honestly, PLEASE stop trying to change the subject of this post.
#1 - His rebounding ratings are too low by 5-6 points EACH.
#2 - His 3's are probably still a little low but I can see questioning that a lot more than I can see keeping his Boards so low. It's an insult to a consistent (years and years) league leader in rebounds.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 24, 2014 2:08:42 GMT
I definitely agree that Love deserves an increase. 82 is way to low for him. Definitely would be for increasing his O & D rebounding stats and maybe increasing his passing some as well. Not sure of his FG, 3PT ratings but they may also be candidates for an increase. I certainly think the adjustments should move his overall to the upper 80's range. His overall is currently an 89 actually, and the debate is about raising him into the 90s. I'm kind of indifferent to it, the problem with him is that his team's have always sucked, so it's hard to take his numbers as seriously as a player on a really good team. I think if his rebounding ratings get a boost and his overall is like 90-91 then that's fine. This is what I'm talking about. I realize raising his rebounding (and maybe 3's) would probably raise his overall rating, but my main point is simply his rebounding right now. No one in their right mind can say that his rebound ratings are fair, how does that even matter what team he's on? Keep in mind there is another player on his team grabbing 9.2 rebounds a game as well, it's not like he's just getting them because no one else is. He's getting them because HE'S THE BEST REBOUNDER IN THE LEAGUE, on a year-to-year basis, prove he's not. Show me the #'s. How are his rebounds where they are, that's all I wanna know, please, all I want is a discussion on his rebounding (and maybe 3's). |
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 24, 2014 2:11:03 GMT
I really wish Love wasn't my player, I think some of you guys bash him b/c you don't like me, or you think I'm just going hard after him b/c he's on my team.
You won't believe this but that's not true. Someone give me a fair deal and I'll trade him and STILL argue just as strongly for his rebounding increase.
I'm a fan of the NBA and this is insulting to him, sorry you guys don't understand but I do understand that his rebounding doesn't matter what team he's on. It's actually MORE impressive because there is another 9+ rebounder on his team.
I'm literally dumbfounded by the ignorance and hate.
Is it because he's White?
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Post by Alex English on Jan 24, 2014 4:15:24 GMT
I really wish Love wasn't my player, I think some of you guys bash him b/c you don't like me, or you think I'm just going hard after him b/c he's on my team. You won't believe this but that's not true. Someone give me a fair deal and I'll trade him and STILL argue just as strongly for his rebounding increase. I'm a fan of the NBA and this is insulting to him, sorry you guys don't understand but I do understand that his rebounding doesn't matter what team he's on. It's actually MORE impressive because there is another 9+ rebounder on his team. I'm literally dumbfounded by the ignorance and hate. Is it because he's White? Really dude? This post is way off base. But if you want to talk about ignorance and not understanding then lets do that. First of all, per game rebounding is a stupid way to measure things. It doesn't take into account minutes played and it doesn't take into account team pace. So let's do that: Taking into account minutes played we're going to use rebounds per 36 minutes. Kevin Love is averaging 13.0 rebounds per 36 minutes (below his career average of 13.7). Let's look at players performing better than that: Rudy Gobert - 14.1 DeAndre Jordan - 14.1 Andre Drummond - 14.0 Reggie Evans - 14.0 Andrew Bogut - 13.7 Omer Asik - 13.3 Jordan Hill - 13.3 Dwight Howard - 13.3 DeMarcus Cousins - 13.0 Now lets take into account pace. This is important because the Timberwolves have the second fastest pace in the league at 97.4 possessions per game. It's also worth noting that you are very wrong that "his rebounding doesn't matter what team he's on" because Minnesota have had one of the fastest paces for pretty much every year of Love's career. So this isn't just an effect to take into account for this season alone. Anyway, to account for pace lets look at the total rebound percentage. Kevin Love's rebound percentage this season is 19.5% (noticeably below his career average of 21.2%). Here is a list of players performing better than that this season: Reggie Evans - 22.9 Rudy Gobert - 22.3 Andre Drummond - 21.6 DeAndre Jordan - 21.6 Andrew Bogut - 20.7 Omer Asik - 20.4 DeMarcus Cousins - 20.4 Dwight Howard - 20.3 Jordan Hill - 19.5 Interestingly, but maybe predictably, it's the same 9 guys. More interestingly though imo is that Kevin Love is actually having a fairly below average year for rebounding and arguably the worst of his career. This is despite being second in the league in per game rebounds. I have no doubt it's due to him playing a lot more on the perimeter this year. I guess this also addresses this request you made: He's getting them because HE'S THE BEST REBOUNDER IN THE LEAGUE, on a year-to-year basis, prove he's not. Show me the #'s. These numbers show that not only is Kevin Love not the best rebounder in the league this year, he's actually only the 10th best. Despite this I still think he deserves a boost to his rebounding ratings. |
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Post by Mike Krzyzewski on Jan 25, 2014 1:01:41 GMT
Rudy Gobert - 14.1
DeAndre Jordan - 14.1
Andre Drummond - 14.0
Reggie Evans - 14.0
Andrew Bogut - 13.7
Omer Asik - 13.3
Jordan Hill - 13.3
Dwight Howard - 13.3
DeMarcus Cousins - 13.0
I think you make a great argument for RB ratings increases for these guys as well.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 25, 2014 3:28:33 GMT
As stated before, 90+ ratings are reserved for franchise players. Franchise players can almost single-handedly carry teams to playoff berths. Love has never done that. Where Love shines on defense, he dissapoints with abysmal rim protection. He can't win games and he's certainly not the first option on a championship team. 89. So, you're saying his rebound ratings are fair then? If so, you know absolutely nothing, not being mean, but that doesn't make any sense. I never asked for an overall rating boost, I want one of the best rebounders IRL to be one of the best rebounders in this league. Otherwise we aren't doing our job. Also, Melo is at a 92, he's "carried" his team to a 16-27 record in the EAST (which BLOWS)...while Love has "carried" his team to a 20-21 record in the stacked WEST. Looks like Love should be a 93 or better, OR, Melo should be an 88 or worse. What's it gonna be? Can't have it both ways my man. |
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 25, 2014 3:41:17 GMT
I really wish Love wasn't my player, I think some of you guys bash him b/c you don't like me, or you think I'm just going hard after him b/c he's on my team. You won't believe this but that's not true. Someone give me a fair deal and I'll trade him and STILL argue just as strongly for his rebounding increase. I'm a fan of the NBA and this is insulting to him, sorry you guys don't understand but I do understand that his rebounding doesn't matter what team he's on. It's actually MORE impressive because there is another 9+ rebounder on his team. I'm literally dumbfounded by the ignorance and hate. Is it because he's White? Really dude? This post is way off base. But if you want to talk about ignorance and not understanding then lets do that. First of all, per game rebounding is a stupid way to measure things. It doesn't take into account minutes played and it doesn't take into account team pace. So let's do that: Taking into account minutes played we're going to use rebounds per 36 minutes. Kevin Love is averaging 13.0 rebounds per 36 minutes (below his career average of 13.7). Let's look at players performing better than that: Rudy Gobert - 14.1 DeAndre Jordan - 14.1 Andre Drummond - 14.0 Reggie Evans - 14.0 Andrew Bogut - 13.7 Omer Asik - 13.3 Jordan Hill - 13.3 Dwight Howard - 13.3 DeMarcus Cousins - 13.0 Now lets take into account pace. This is important because the Timberwolves have the second fastest pace in the league at 97.4 possessions per game. It's also worth noting that you are very wrong that "his rebounding doesn't matter what team he's on" because Minnesota have had one of the fastest paces for pretty much every year of Love's career. So this isn't just an effect to take into account for this season alone. Anyway, to account for pace lets look at the total rebound percentage. Kevin Love's rebound percentage this season is 19.5% (noticeably below his career average of 21.2%). Here is a list of players performing better than that this season: Reggie Evans - 22.9 Rudy Gobert - 22.3 Andre Drummond - 21.6 DeAndre Jordan - 21.6 Andrew Bogut - 20.7 Omer Asik - 20.4 DeMarcus Cousins - 20.4 Dwight Howard - 20.3 Jordan Hill - 19.5 Interestingly, but maybe predictably, it's the same 9 guys. More interestingly though imo is that Kevin Love is actually having a fairly below average year for rebounding and arguably the worst of his career. This is despite being second in the league in per game rebounds. I have no doubt it's due to him playing a lot more on the perimeter this year. I guess this also addresses this request you made: He's getting them because HE'S THE BEST REBOUNDER IN THE LEAGUE, on a year-to-year basis, prove he's not. Show me the #'s. These numbers show that not only is Kevin Love not the best rebounder in the league this year, he's actually only the 10th best. Despite this I still think he deserves a boost to his rebounding ratings. This was actually a challenge Alex, I 100% THANK YOU for doing some actual research. I'm tired of the guys coming on here and bashing with no real thought or research when I do research and comb through the ratings in this league in order to compare ratings across the league.
I will say, in response to all of your research, your stats basically say Rudy Gobert is the best rebounder in the league, but my stats say Kevin Love is a top rebounder. Which guy do you REALLY think is a better rebounder? Your stats aren't wrong, but you can kind of make stats say what you want to some times. I think Gobert is a good rebounder but he's gotta get consistent minutes and prove it over, oh i dunno, 30-35+ mpg like guys like Love and DeAndre, and Drummond, etc are doing. And, as you point out, this is actually Love's worst rebounding season, but he's never gotten the full respect he deserved in the past. He's still a great rebounder, and does deserve the boost, as you said to close your post. And again, I 100% thank you for doing real research. That's what I wanted someone to do! Tired of doing a bunch of work and others just coming on here and bad-mouthing him b/c he's "on a bad team". It does matter that the TWolves play a fast pace, but it doesn't matter that they're a bad team. I purposely said some brash things in order to bait someone into doing research, and I appreciate the time you put into it. I still firmly believe Love's rebound ratings are too low, and it's important to note his career avg #'s would have him top 5 in both of your categories. And, apparently according to your stats, Dwight needs a bit of a decrease (he's currently 95 & 97 in rebounds, apparently he has relinquished that title :-) |
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 25, 2014 3:52:36 GMT
Timberwolves real life starting lineup, as translated into this league's ratings: Ricky Rubio - 82 Kevin Martin - 81 Corey Brewer - 76 Kevin Love - 89 Nikola Pekovic - 81 You're telling me that all these guys are flat out ballers individually but suck as a team? And you're telling me that not only do they suck this year, but in fact they suck EVERY year as a team? Yet if you break them apart, the Timberwolves have four 80+ players with a top 10 player in the league to lead them? Sorry, but no. You may think my ratings are crazy sometimes but that's only because I seem to put more emphasis on actual results and not inflated empty stats. Not only are these guys consistently not making the playoffs, but they aren't even coming close to a winning record most seasons. Yet there's FOUR 80+ players on that team? That would be a top 10 in this league with those ratings. Yet in real life, they are consistently a bottom feeder. Seems to me that the only conclusion we can gather by this is that we have overrated these guys. Ricky Rubio is on track for the worst shooting season EVER for an NBA player at 35%. EVER. As in, throughout all of history. Kevin Martin shoots a dismal 42% from the field. Among qualified Power Forwards, Love is 20th in the league in FG%. 20th! Yet he is the 2nd highest rated PF in this league. Here's the Timberwolves' record since Love has been there: 08-09: 24-58 09-10: 15-67 10-11: 17-65 11-12: 26-40 12-13: 31-51 13-14: 20-21 Wait, let me guess your argument. He was injured. In 12-13. When they managed their best record of the past five seasons. Or, his supporting cast sucks? Then why are they all rated in the 80s! Something doesn't add up here. We're talking about increasing a guy's rating to 90+ when his team's record since he's been on it is 133-302. I'm sorry, but no. Like I said in the last thread, find me one other player rated anywhere remotely close to Love who has never had a winning record. Find me one player rated anywhere close to Love who has never made the playoffs. Especially someone who has been in the league 5+ years. Appreciate the response Barber. I do maintain that you've consistently put out very poor rating suggestions, but we'll move on from that. I think the TWolves have been managed/owned and coached incredibly poorly for a long time now. So, yes, I am saying that although those players have strengths individually, they do not mesh well together and there is a culture of losing in Minny ever since they dismantled and traded away Garnett and drafted like 5 PGs in one draft lol. What a messed up organization. I'm pretty confident that Kevin Love is NOT the reason the TWolves haven't made the playoffs. And no, my argument would not have said anything about Love's injury. AND, I AM TALKING ABOUT RAISING KEVIN LOVE'S REBOUNDING. Find where I say his overall should be 90+ in this thread(other than in a recent post comparing him to Melo, to make a point). I said his 89 "might be a little low", but then moved on to a discussion on his rebounding. At least Alex has added some real knowledge and factual information, though I don't think it's the whole story either. And, if your argument is that his FG% is 20th for a PF, you again are demonstrating your ignorance. He's not a primary post player like most of the guys ahead of him. He's a perimeter guy. How many of those 19 guys higher than him shoot the 3 even half as well as Kevin Love does (if at all)? How many match or beat him in FT%? How many are as good or better Rebounders? How many score 25+ points? How many get 4+ apg? |
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 25, 2014 3:53:39 GMT
Rudy Gobert - 14.1 DeAndre Jordan - 14.1 Andre Drummond - 14.0 Reggie Evans - 14.0 Andrew Bogut - 13.7 Omer Asik - 13.3 Jordan Hill - 13.3 Dwight Howard - 13.3 DeMarcus Cousins - 13.0 I think you make a great argument for RB ratings increases for these guys as well. Yea honestly anytime I look through these ratings in depth I think there are a lot of flaws, but I know it's really hard for Ian to do a total fix on everything. Dwight should actually get a decrease apparently, and it's too early for Gobert specifically to get some huge boost, but he's definitely a very good rebounder. |
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 25, 2014 4:00:41 GMT
Alex - Are you able to get the stats of these guys for the past like 3-4 years?
Who has the highest rebounds per 36 minutes and highest rebound percentage over the past few years?
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 25, 2014 4:31:48 GMT
Starting to find some of these stats...Going to leave out guys who barely played then or barely play now.
Total Rebound/36mpg
2013-14:
Gobert - 14.1
DeAndre - 14.1
Drummond - 14.0
Evans - 14.0
Bogut - 13.7
Asik - 13.3
Dwight - 13.3
Hill - 13.2
Cousins 13.0
Love 13.0
2012-13:
Evans - 16.3
Love - 14.7
Varejao - 14.4
Asik - 14.0
Drummond - 13.2
Dalembert - 13.0
Jordan Hill - 13.0
John Henson - 12.9
Vucevic - 12.9
Hickson - 12.8
Dwight - 12.5
2011-12:
Camby - 14.1
Dwight - 13.7
Varejaao - 13.2
Asik - 13.0
Cousins - 13.0
Evans - 12.7
Love - 12.3
Faried - 12.2
Hill - 12.2
2010-11:
Evans - 15.6
Love - 15.3
Camby - 14.2
Dwight - 13.5
Humphries - 13.5
Bynum - 12.2
Dalembert - 12.2
Tyson Chandler - 12.1
ZBo - 12.1
2009-10:
Kevin Love - 13.8
Dwight - 13.7
Camby - 13.6
Dalembert - 13.3
Noah - 13.2
Evans - 12.2
Total Rebound %
2013-14:
Evans - 22.9
Gobert - 22.3
Drummond - 21.6
DeAndre - 21.6
Bogut - 20.7
Asik - 20.4
Cousins - 20.4
Dwight - 20.3
Love - 19.5
Hill - 19.4
Varejao - 19.4
2012-13:
Evans - 26.7
Love - 23.3
Varejao - 23.2
Asik - 22
Drummond - 21.2
Hickson - 20.7
Vucevic - 20.2
Hill - 20.0
Dalembert - 19.4
Henson - 19.3
ZBo - 19.3
Duncan - 19.1
Dwight - 19.1
2011-12:
Camby - 22.8
Dwight - 21.9
Evans - 20.9
Varejao - 20.8
Asik - 20.1
Cousins - 19.8
Faried - 19.8
Hill - 19.5
Love - 19.0
2010-11:
Evans - 25.6
Camby - 24.1
Love - 23.6
Humphries - 22.1
Dwight - 21.8
ZBo - 20.1
Tyson - 19.7
Dalembert - 19.3
2009-10:
Camby - 22.2
Dwight - 22.0
Dalembert - 21.8
Love - 21.5
Noah - 20.3
Evans - 19.9
So after all of that, who are the best, most consistently great rebounders in the league? This isn't done 100% correctly, just averaging out each year (not averaging out their games played and total rebounds, etc), but should give us an idea. Only Dwight, Love, and Evans are consistent all the way through these 5 years as top of the line guys. A few of the others are clearly very talented, I'm not taking away from them, but I'm looking at who deserves these ratings the most based on consistency year to year, so here we go.
Over the last 5 years, here are your 3 best rebounders using the Advanced statistics Alex brought up, in order:
Evans - 14.16 & 23.2%
Love - 13.82 & 21.38%
Dwight - 13.34 & 21.02%
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Post by Ian Noble on Feb 3, 2014 22:49:06 GMT
I'm a little scared to comment in this thread after all the work you've put in Walt, you're clearly very passionate about this, but I still also don't see Love as 90 or above. I remember losing my freakin mind when I was 11 years old when all my high school mates in my Australian High School said that Todd Day (Milwaukee Bucks) was hands-down better than Dee Brown (Boston Celtics). I honestly had so many arguments about it, and I still disagree that Todd Day is better than Dee Brown, I still remember that shit, it was crazy talk and history remembers Dee Brown, not Todd Day! So I feel your pain here, I really do, it's been 20 years since Todd Day and Dee Brown  I'm afraid I agree with what Josh is saying. I can see what you're saying about Love's rebounding, but if I bumped rebounding I just feel like something else should go down, and I hate to micro-manage player ratings because it's probably the most time consuming part of my job as Commish. |
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Post by Walt Frazier on Feb 4, 2014 4:05:45 GMT
I only bring it up because he is, by every established measuring stick, a top 3 rebounder, and those guys are in their own class. He's simply too low. It's an insult and it makes it hard to build my team when I have a top rebounder in the real NBA (like, elite, crazy good rebounder), who is just a solid rebounder who doesn't even sniff the league lead in rebounds in this league).
It's frustrating that it's not realistic, something I always strive to help these leagues be.
I also think we're too caught up in the "90". It's just one number more than 89. Should we have a criteria for an 88? "Oh, that guys an 87 alright, but an 88? Whoa now!"
I think the top guys should all go up a bit (talking Durant and LeBron at 99's, CP3 type guys around 96), leaving room for guys like Love to be properly rated.
Whatever, do what you will, you and Barber often agree on this stuff, I just honestly think it makes the league look bad that Kevin Love has never sniffed the league lead in rebounds but is always near there in real life. All because of the elusive 90.
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Post by James Kay on Feb 4, 2014 5:01:29 GMT
Player ratings should be relative to other players. Comparable players:
88:Chris Bosh
James Harden
Andre Iguoldala
Blake Griffin
89:Paul Pierce
Pau Gasol
90:Deron Williams
Dirk Nowitzki
Dwayne Wade
Russell Westbrook
Love should definitely be rated above Pierce and Gasol. Williams shouldn't be a 90 but Love should be ahead of him too. Not even addressing which other players in the 90+ deserve a rating change.
Either address all the other player's ratings or address Love's.
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Post by Ian Noble on Feb 4, 2014 11:15:45 GMT
I think that just means that Pierce, Gasol and Deron Williams need decreases imho.
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Post by Alex English on Feb 4, 2014 18:52:54 GMT
Yea Deron, Gasol, Pierce and Iguodala definitely need decreases, and there might be a decent argument for Bosh as well.
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Chris Mullin
 Golden State Warriors
Starter
Posts: 1,303
Feb 19, 2024 21:58:28 GMT
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Post by Chris Mullin on Feb 4, 2014 23:37:06 GMT
Yea Deron, Gasol, Pierce and Iguodala definitely need decreases, and there might be a decent argument for Bosh as well. If these guys are going to get ratings decreases there are a lot of other players around the league that need to be decreased as well. Not trying to create more work for Ian but there a lot of players well past their primes still with close to or 80+ ratings. Their real life productivity just doesn't justify their ratings at this point A few examples... 86 Steve Nash 86 Danny Granger 85 Gerald Wallace 83 Jason Terry 82 Antawn Jamison 79 Lamar Odom 87 Amare Stoudemire 80 Kendrick Perkins 81 Caron Butler 79 Stephen Jackson |
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Post by Alex English on Feb 6, 2014 4:23:39 GMT
Probably like most people I barely ever watch Timberwolves games so that's surprising how pathetic those examples were. I don't think there is a very strong argument against not raising his rebounding ratings, but they should be offset with lowering some other ratings like his defensive awareness rating and his hustle rating. |
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Post by Walt Frazier on Feb 7, 2014 5:56:45 GMT
Probably like most people I barely ever watch Timberwolves games so that's surprising how pathetic those examples were. I don't think there is a very strong argument against not raising his rebounding ratings, but they should be offset with lowering some other ratings like his defensive awareness rating and his hustle rating. I'd be fine with this. I haven't even talked about how Love has nearly doubled his assists this season :-p Rebound rating just seems like a bigger deal. I'm not nitpicking every rating out there, but we should have the very top rebounders in the NBA be the very top rebounders in D5, just like at every other position, plain and simple. |
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Feb 11, 2014 3:49:19 GMT
Did anyone catch the Timberwolves-Pelicans game the other night, Kevin Love did all that while injured and still made Anthony Davis look like he'd never rebounded a ball in his life.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Feb 20, 2014 4:50:55 GMT
Kevin Love just carried his team to a win over the INDIANA PACERS. Put up 42 and 16 on 63.6% shooting, 50% (5/10) from 3. 9/10 from the line. 8th game in a row with 25 & 10 or more.
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