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Post by Chauncey Billups on Feb 3, 2024 3:29:47 GMT
Not a big fan of Kawhi’s massive contract at this point in his career, along with his history of injuries, but the immediate upside for me is too good to pass up. Domas is an incredible player and he’ll be missed, but the East looks vulnerable and we’re ready to strike.
I accept!
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Sam Presti
Oklahoma City Thunder
Rookie
Posts: 91
May 6, 2024 1:33:40 GMT
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Post by Sam Presti on Feb 3, 2024 6:29:14 GMT
This is the best offer I've received for Kawhi. You’re not like… required to trade Kawhi. If you were struggling for Ws I’d understand, but that’s not the case at all. There’s only a few teams with better records and none of them are significantly more equipped for the playoffs. Seems kinda silly to not give this line up a real chance since none of the major pieces are FAs this offseason anyway.
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Feb 3, 2024 11:32:34 GMT
Yea can we get some more reasoning from Dell on this one?
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Post by Chauncey Billups on Feb 3, 2024 17:28:29 GMT
So what’s going on with this trade? Discord bandits at it again? Can we at least get votes before you bully someone into deleting a trade?
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Post by Jared Montini on Feb 3, 2024 17:53:57 GMT
So what’s going on with this trade? Discord bandits at it again? Can we at least get votes before you bully someone into deleting a trade? He can’t back out after posting and you accepting. If our words upset him it doesn’t matter 😂 Trade is on
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Dell Demps
Memphis Grizzlies
Rookie
Posts: 158
Apr 16, 2024 6:28:32 GMT
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Post by Dell Demps on Feb 3, 2024 23:00:00 GMT
Team is trying to get younger.
Memphis trades:: 94 Kawhi Leonard $47,607,350 $51,177,901 $54,748,453 $58,319,003 $61,889,554 (PO) 75 Patrick Beverley $10,350,000 $11,250,000 (PO) Total outgoing $57,957,350 (/1.25% = $46,350,880)
Pistons trades: 88 Domantas Sabonis $32,319,024 $34,426,786 $36,534,548 (PO) 78 Dennis Schroder $11,500,000 $11,000,000 $10,500,000 $10,000,000 (PO) 75 Mike Muscala $2,000,000 CJ Elleby dead money $1,017,782 Total outgoing $46,836,806
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Post by Chauncey Billups on Feb 4, 2024 13:15:37 GMT
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Post by Alex English on Feb 4, 2024 22:25:09 GMT
This one is close. Kawhi has a realistic chance of suffering a career ending injury at any moment. On talent level this is dumb. It's basically Kawhi for Sabonis straight up. But taking into account Kawhi's history and that this looks like it will be the first season in 7 years that Kawhi plays more than 60 games, then there's some chance that this is actually trading high on Kawhi. So I'm not sure what to think.
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Amare Stoudemire
Sacramento Kings
Starter
Posts: 2,416
Apr 14, 2024 11:04:23 GMT
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Post by Amare Stoudemire on Feb 4, 2024 23:45:25 GMT
This trade is straight garbage imo. If you have a player with the caliber of Kawaii then you hold him till you either get insane value or you have no choice!
I've been vetoed plenty for the same reason and this is not a rant just a reminder that we have a TC for a reason and this is it staring you right between the eyes!
Seriously Amare Veto
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Post by Chauncey Billups on Feb 5, 2024 2:58:40 GMT
This trade is straight garbage imo. If you have a player with the caliber of Kawaii then you hold him till you either get insane value or you have no choice! I've been vetoed plenty for the same reason and this is not a rant just a reminder that we have a TC for a reason and this is it staring you right between the eyes! Seriously Amare Veto Except Sabonis is a stud who averages 20/13/8 on 61.9 fg% and 43.4 3p% (albeit on 1.1 attempts). I implore all of you to watch a Kings game. Their entire system revolves around Sabonis and his passing abilities and being a threat pretty much on all 3 levels when needed. And he’s 27 years old. The disrespect is crazy. Calling for a veto on someone else’s trade is next level ridiculous.
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Post by Jared Montini on Feb 5, 2024 14:48:35 GMT
Where are the votes you cowards!!!!
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Feb 5, 2024 15:15:01 GMT
Well no one else is voting, which in itself might be telling, so I’m gonna go ahead and reject. I’m not disrespecting Sabonis by any means, but Kawhi has arguably been a top 5 player this season and is the 6th highest rated player in D5. Guys like him don’t just grow on trees and are typically extremely difficult to acquire in this league. If this was two veteran GMs making this deal, then I could maybe be convinced to accept even without the inclusion of young assets or picks. But Dell is the league’s newest GM and I think maybe doesn’t have an appreciation for how hard it is to obtain a player like Kawhi. Combined with the PG for Dejounte trade, Dell is sorta just attempting to trade his good players for worse players in an effort to make the team truly his. I understand the sentiment, but this trade simply doesn’t make sense for the Grizzlies as a D5 franchise, who are currently sitting as a top 3 team with the Warriors having a ratings decrease to Steph coming up. I’m not saying Dell should be locked into this current lineup, but winning a title should be the priority for any GM.
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Dell Demps
Memphis Grizzlies
Rookie
Posts: 158
Apr 16, 2024 6:28:32 GMT
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Post by Dell Demps on Feb 5, 2024 15:49:34 GMT
Well no one else is voting, which in itself might be telling, so I’m gonna go ahead and reject. I’m not disrespecting Sabonis by any means, but Kawhi has arguably been a top 5 player this season and is the 6th highest rated player in D5. Guys like him don’t just grow on trees and are typically extremely difficult to acquire in this league. If this was two veteran GMs making this deal, then I could maybe be convinced to accept even without the inclusion of young assets or picks. But Dell is the league’s newest GM and I think maybe doesn’t have an appreciation for how hard it is to obtain a player like Kawhi. Combined with the PG for Dejounte trade, Dell is sorta just attempting to trade his good players for worse players in an effort to make the team truly his. I understand the sentiment, but this trade simply doesn’t make sense for the Grizzlies as a D5 franchise, who are currently sitting as a top 3 team with the Warriors having a ratings decrease to Steph coming up. I’m not saying Dell should be locked into this current lineup, but winning a title should be the priority for any GM. Post the SWs, AK!
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Post by Alex English on Feb 5, 2024 19:12:19 GMT
If this was two veteran GMs making this deal, then I could maybe be convinced to accept even without the inclusion of young assets or picks. But Dell is the league’s newest GM and I think maybe doesn’t have an appreciation for how hard it is to obtain a player like Kawhi. Combined with the PG for Dejounte trade, Dell is sorta just attempting to trade his good players for worse players in an effort to make the team truly his. This is a point I was also thinking of and it's going to put me on the reject side of things. There are some justifiable things about this trade, but ultimately Kawhi doesn't need to be traded at all, and trading for the sake of trading by a new GM is a classic red flag.
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Post by James Kay on Feb 5, 2024 21:58:32 GMT
Just throwing my thoughts out here. I'm leaning towards a reject right now. Kinda waiting to see what Walt and possibly Ian say about this one.
I have been really mulling this one over. I think in terms of value, Sabonis might be a bit underrated here. At 88, 27 years old, he's a top 30 D5 player and I think one of the only 3-5 players in the league that might make sense for a 1 for 1 trade for Kawhi.
What's giving me pause is two things: 1) that MEM is a new GM and are we just allowing him to come in and move a top 5 player with no real strong reason to do so?; and 2) the PO at the end of the Sabonis deal essentially means that this is just a one year deal for Sabonis. If this were a player of Sabonis's age and caliber on a freshly signed 5-year deal, that would make a lot more sense for MEM, whose main argument for trading Kawhi, as far as I can see it, is stability and youth. Having Sabonis expire in just one season doesn't really provide a bedrock for MEM to build a future on.
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Post by Chauncey Billups on Feb 5, 2024 22:49:51 GMT
If, as a member of the TC, you can rationalize a trade and understand why both parties go through with a trade, but then turn around and reject, you’ve failed as a TC member. At this point, you’re using your bias on how YOU think the Memphis Grizzlies should be run, and not how Dell Demps is choosing to run his team.
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Post by James Kay on Feb 5, 2024 22:55:28 GMT
If, as a member of the TC, you can rationalize a trade and understand why both parties go through with a trade, but then turn around and reject, you’ve failed as a TC member. At this point, you’re using your bias on how YOU think the Memphis Grizzlies should be run, and not how Dell Demps is choosing to run his team. Well, yes, because when it comes to new GMs, there's certainly a level of heightened scrutiny and the TC is looking at the health of the overall franchise
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Post by Chauncey Billups on Feb 5, 2024 23:02:28 GMT
If, as a member of the TC, you can rationalize a trade and understand why both parties go through with a trade, but then turn around and reject, you’ve failed as a TC member. At this point, you’re using your bias on how YOU think the Memphis Grizzlies should be run, and not how Dell Demps is choosing to run his team. Well, yes, because when it comes to new GMs, there's certainly a level of heightened scrutiny and the TC is looking at the health of the overall franchise Just my 2 cents. All three TC members have rationalized the trade, understood the trade, can see why Memphis would potentially do this, but turned around and rejected/leaning towards rejection. I just fundamentally disagree with that logic is all.
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Post by Chauncey Billups on Feb 5, 2024 23:06:00 GMT
Also, if you all are so worried about the health and direction of the Grizzlies as a franchise, then Dell Demps shouldn’t have been selected as the GM. That’s not a knock on Demps by any means, just a contradiction in my eyes.
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Post by James Kay on Feb 5, 2024 23:21:42 GMT
Well, yes, because when it comes to new GMs, there's certainly a level of heightened scrutiny and the TC is looking at the health of the overall franchise Just my 2 cents. All three TC members have rationalized the trade, understood the trade, can see why Memphis would potentially do this, but turned around and rejected/leaning towards rejection. I just fundamentally disagree with that logic is all. I forget you're not in discord but I have talked about it fairly extensively there, so I apologize for not elaborating to maybe the full extent that I should be on here (I also didn't outright reject, I'm curious to see how the remaining 2 TC members feel about this trade). MEM is currently 2nd in the West. They just went to the WCF last season. They don't have their pick the year after this. Sabonis is basically expiring after this year. It's not just "is this the best MEM can get for Kawhi?" It's a bit more like "Does MEM even need to be doing this?" As a trade with a new GM, I personally am evaluating not just whether "Can I rationalize this trade?" but "Can I rationalize this direction for the franchise?" I don't like this trade for a veteran GM. When I see that it's also made by a new GM I'm that much more skeptical. If you're going to move Kawhi, and move on from what is arguably a top 5 title shot in all D5, then shouldn't you be re-tooling a bit more effectively? Is the move from a very top tier player, a #1 title option, to Sabonis, in a 1 for 1 trade, so tempting, so lucrative, that you need to abandon the clear direction of your franchise? I realize this might be hard on Dell Demps, who is coming into a team that he didn't create, and is basically being told that he needs to keep this core together. But it's not that he can't move Kawhi, it's that the TC can't allow trades that fundamentally shift the direction of the franchise in a way that's not really conducive to any new direction besides giving up a title shot for a vague interest in getting younger.
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Post by Chauncey Billups on Feb 5, 2024 23:38:26 GMT
Just my 2 cents. All three TC members have rationalized the trade, understood the trade, can see why Memphis would potentially do this, but turned around and rejected/leaning towards rejection. I just fundamentally disagree with that logic is all. I forget you're not in discord but I have talked about it fairly extensively there, so I apologize for not elaborating to maybe the full extent that I should be on here (I also didn't outright reject, I'm curious to see how the remaining 2 TC members feel about this trade). MEM is currently 2nd in the West. They just went to the WCF last season. They don't have their pick the year after this. Sabonis is basically expiring after this year. It's not just "is this the best MEM can get for Kawhi?" It's a bit more like "Does MEM even need to be doing this?" As a trade with a new GM, I personally am evaluating not just whether "Can I rationalize this trade?" but "Can I rationalize this direction for the franchise?" I don't like this trade for a veteran GM. When I see that it's also made by a new GM I'm that much more skeptical. If you're going to move Kawhi, and move on from what is arguably a top 5 title shot in all D5, then shouldn't you be re-tooling a bit more effectively? Is the move from a very top tier player, a #1 title option, to Sabonis, in a 1 for 1 trade, so tempting, so lucrative, that you need to abandon the clear direction of your franchise? I realize this might be hard on Dell Demps, who is coming into a team that he didn't create, and is basically being told that he needs to keep this core together. But it's not that he can't move Kawhi, it's that the TC can't allow trades that fundamentally shift the direction of the franchise in a way that's not really conducive to any new direction besides giving up a title shot for a vague interest in getting younger. I guess that’s where we disagree. I’m not THAT high on Kawhi, and I see a huge amount of risk when taking him on. And I’m not just trying to talk out of my ass to justify the trade. I see a 32 year old, injury-prone star that would be making 60+ million by the end of his contract. It’s risky. On the flip side, I’m very high on Sabonis. No, he’s not on Kawhi’s level, I recognize that, and I’m sure Demps does as well, but long-term this isn’t as bad as people are painting it to be. He also comes with BRs. This move, in my eyes, allows Memphis to still be competitive now with an eye on the future. And I’ll just reiterate what I stated before. Demps was democratically voted by the league to take the reins of the franchise. Coddling and protecting him by using what you perceive to be the best direction for his franchise is wrong IMO.
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Post by Jerry West on Feb 5, 2024 23:45:35 GMT
I forget you're not in discord but I have talked about it fairly extensively there, so I apologize for not elaborating to maybe the full extent that I should be on here (I also didn't outright reject, I'm curious to see how the remaining 2 TC members feel about this trade). MEM is currently 2nd in the West. They just went to the WCF last season. They don't have their pick the year after this. Sabonis is basically expiring after this year. It's not just "is this the best MEM can get for Kawhi?" It's a bit more like "Does MEM even need to be doing this?" As a trade with a new GM, I personally am evaluating not just whether "Can I rationalize this trade?" but "Can I rationalize this direction for the franchise?" I don't like this trade for a veteran GM. When I see that it's also made by a new GM I'm that much more skeptical. If you're going to move Kawhi, and move on from what is arguably a top 5 title shot in all D5, then shouldn't you be re-tooling a bit more effectively? Is the move from a very top tier player, a #1 title option, to Sabonis, in a 1 for 1 trade, so tempting, so lucrative, that you need to abandon the clear direction of your franchise? I realize this might be hard on Dell Demps, who is coming into a team that he didn't create, and is basically being told that he needs to keep this core together. But it's not that he can't move Kawhi, it's that the TC can't allow trades that fundamentally shift the direction of the franchise in a way that's not really conducive to any new direction besides giving up a title shot for a vague interest in getting younger. I guess that’s where we disagree. I’m not THAT high on Kawhi, and I see a huge amount of risk when taking him on. And I’m not just trying to talk out of my ass to justify the trade. I see a 32 year old, injury-prone star that would be making 60+ million by the end of his contract. It’s risky. On the flip side, I’m very high on Sabonis. No, he’s not on Kawhi’s level, I recognize that, and I’m sure Demps does as well, but long-term this isn’t as bad as people are painting it to be. He also comes with BRs. This move, in my eyes, allows Memphis to still be competitive now with an eye on the future. And I’ll just reiterate what I stated before. Demps was democratically voted by the league to take the reins of the franchise. Coddling and protecting him by using what you perceive to be the best direction for his franchise is wrong IMO. Thank God the TC saved your ass from making that awful move then
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Post by Chauncey Billups on Feb 5, 2024 23:53:05 GMT
Thank God the TC saved your ass from making that awful move then
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Feb 6, 2024 0:17:07 GMT
Anyone who see this as clearly a reject or an accept is clearly bias, unknowingly clearly bias or simply dumb in assessing a trade.
Let the process that we have here do their work and decide the fate of this trade.
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Vlade Divac
Former Kings GM
Sophomore
Posts: 629
Feb 23, 2024 23:40:50 GMT
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Post by Vlade Divac on Feb 6, 2024 0:46:45 GMT
Maybe you should just give me the Pistons back, since Chauncey doesn't know what he is doing!
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Post by Chauncey Billups on Feb 6, 2024 0:47:16 GMT
Maybe you should just give me the Pistons back, since Chauncey doesn't know what he is doing! They might open up. Great timing
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Vlade Divac
Former Kings GM
Sophomore
Posts: 629
Feb 23, 2024 23:40:50 GMT
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Post by Vlade Divac on Feb 6, 2024 0:49:25 GMT
Maybe you should just give me the Pistons back, since Chauncey doesn't know what he is doing! They might open up. Great timing
I'm just busting your balls. I quit watching the NBA a few years ago and have no desire to start back up.
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Vlade Divac
Former Kings GM
Sophomore
Posts: 629
Feb 23, 2024 23:40:50 GMT
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Post by Vlade Divac on Feb 6, 2024 0:50:57 GMT
And you obviously did a great job with the Pistons. My best player was like.....Matt Barnes?
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Sam Presti
Oklahoma City Thunder
Rookie
Posts: 91
May 6, 2024 1:33:40 GMT
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Post by Sam Presti on Feb 6, 2024 1:40:50 GMT
They might open up. Great timing
I'm just busting your balls. I quit watching the NBA a few years ago and have no desire to start back up.
I don’t recall you ever actually watching the NBA 😂
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Vlade Divac
Former Kings GM
Sophomore
Posts: 629
Feb 23, 2024 23:40:50 GMT
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Post by Vlade Divac on Feb 6, 2024 1:42:45 GMT
I'm just busting your balls. I quit watching the NBA a few years ago and have no desire to start back up.
I don’t recall you ever actually watching the NBA 😂
Do I know you?
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