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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Jun 8, 2018 6:45:08 GMT
D5 Analytics
#5 - OSFA and GM Loyalty Similar to teams that JR Wiles assembled, it is an age-old debate at D5: which GMs are most loyal to their players? Inevitably, every GM claims he is loyal in a pitch to a potential free agent, that the player will be a long-term starter and they will go win a championship together. Sound familiar? To settle the debate once and for all, I did some armchair research to determine which GMs are in fact the most loyal, and why the answer is definitely not Hanamichi Sakuragi . First, some caveats- this study goes back 3 offseasons (so it includes players signed in 2017, 2016, and 2015). I also limited my study to players rated 77 or above (at time of signing), because who cares about those other scrubs anyway? Finally, I recognize that some teams have changed GMs so this may not actually be indicative of the current GM, but give me a break, jeeze. Oh also, some of these guys have retired so it's not really indicative of loyalty, but IDGAF. Exhibit A - Who has signed the most free agents? Here is a count of every free agent, rated 77+, signed over the past 3 offseasons: Shane Battier and the Chicago Bulls, and Bryan Colangelo and the Toronto Raptors have signed the most 77+ rated free agents, both with an incredible 9 signings over the past 3 offseasons! On the flip side, a handful of tanking teams have signed only 1 free agent rated above 77 in the past 3 years! The league average for signings was 3.9, and the median was 4.0. Exhibit B - Who has kept the most free agents? Out of the players in Exhibit A above, I cross-referenced with the current league salary database to determine how many of these guys are still on the team that signed them: Utoh. 8 teams have not retained ANY players that they signed over the past 8 seasons! And another 10 teams have only retained 1 player. But if we look at it percentage-wise, who is actually the most loyal? Exhibit C - Who is actually the most loyal? Ok, so as you can see I didn't actually spend that much time on this analysis and there's obviously a ton of other factors I should be considering. But if we just look at it percentage-wise, we can see certain teams are definitely loyal whereas certain teams definitely are not. The most loyal GMs, in my opinion, are James Kay and Mike Krzyzewski , who both signed 5 players and kept 4 of them. The least loyal GMs are Hanamichi Sakuragi and Jared Montini , who have signed 6 and 5 players, respectively, and kept 0 of them! I have a team-by-team breakdown that perhaps I will include in a different post, but that's all for now!
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Jun 8, 2018 6:57:30 GMT
One final image... Exhibit D - where are these players going? For all the players that are no longer on their signing team, which team are they on now?
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Post by Jared Montini on Jun 8, 2018 9:36:00 GMT
Not fair ! I've signed two players in my tenure and have kept both. I traded majerles bums
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Post by Ian Noble on Jun 8, 2018 9:45:03 GMT
I'm exempting myself from this analysis because the one guy I signed, Enes Kanter, was on my team for 6 years before I traded him That being said - I love your analytics analyses Josh!
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Jun 8, 2018 12:40:44 GMT
I am not loyal to any player. I am loyal to one thing and one thing alone. WINNING THE CROWN THE WAY I WANT.
And that has been my pitch in the last three seasons. I never LIED about that. NEVER. I will give my best again in the upcoming season to win the crown. No ifs and no buts..
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Post by Jared Montini on Jun 8, 2018 12:47:02 GMT
I am loyal, I never traded a player I've signed yet. Please take my @name out of there. I have been loyal to Dion Waiters, Finney Smith and teodosic
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Jun 8, 2018 12:56:30 GMT
I am not loyal to any player. I am loyal to one thing and one thing alone. WINNING THE CROWN THE WAY I WANT. And that has been my pitch in the last three seasons. I never LIED about that. NEVER. I will give my best again in the upcoming season to win the crown. No ifs and no buts.. But how can you pitch winning the crown if the player won't even be on your team?
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Jun 8, 2018 13:20:07 GMT
I am not loyal to any player. I am loyal to one thing and one thing alone. WINNING THE CROWN THE WAY I WANT. And that has been my pitch in the last three seasons. I never LIED about that. NEVER. I will give my best again in the upcoming season to win the crown. No ifs and no buts.. But how can you pitch winning the crown if the player won't even be on your team? Wrong.. I see them helping the Cavs win the crown.. So I went and pitched.
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Post by Mike Krzyzewski on Jun 8, 2018 14:03:47 GMT
I am definitely loyal and that would show even more when you use more than the past 3 off seasons.
Nice article Josh! I am going to reference this in upcoming off seasons for sure when pitching to free agents:)
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Jun 8, 2018 16:17:31 GMT
I'm just glad to be even with Josh in something
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Post by Tom Izzo on Jun 8, 2018 19:22:33 GMT
But how can you pitch winning the crown if the player won't even be on your team? Wrong.. I see them helping the Cavs win the crown.. So I went and pitched. But how can you attract players to your team if they have zero confidence that they will stay on this "championship ride" ? Players get so few chances to actually choose where to live and work and free agency is one of those times. They have the free will to take the most money, pick a specific location, be apart of a winning culture, etc. Basically, you're telling these players: "Here in Cleveland we care about winning so much that we have no problem trading you if a good offer comes our way. We have no player loyalty. We owe you NOTHING." Who would choose to work in that kind of environment?
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Jun 8, 2018 21:26:14 GMT
Wrong.. I see them helping the Cavs win the crown.. So I went and pitched. But how can you attract players to your team if they have zero confidence that they will stay on this "championship ride" ? Players get so few chances to actually choose where to live and work and free agency is one of those times. They have the free will to take the most money, pick a specific location, be apart of a winning culture, etc. Basically, you're telling these players: "Here in Cleveland we care about winning so much that we have no problem trading you if a good offer comes our way. We have no player loyalty. We owe you NOTHING." Who would choose to work in that kind of environment? Good offer? Kindly define that so that we are talking in the same level.
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Post by Tom Izzo on Jun 8, 2018 21:39:33 GMT
But how can you attract players to your team if they have zero confidence that they will stay on this "championship ride" ? Players get so few chances to actually choose where to live and work and free agency is one of those times. They have the free will to take the most money, pick a specific location, be apart of a winning culture, etc. Basically, you're telling these players: "Here in Cleveland we care about winning so much that we have no problem trading you if a good offer comes our way. We have no player loyalty. We owe you NOTHING." Who would choose to work in that kind of environment? Good offer? Kindly define that so that we are talking in the same level. That you sign players and are willing to ship them away if it's a deal you like. Point being, players are people and they expect some kind of loyalty when they chose to come to your team when they didn't have to. The willingness to sign players and ship them out, contributing to a low loyalty rating, is a generally negative trait that should deter players from signing.
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Post by Ian Noble on Jun 8, 2018 22:39:52 GMT
Danny Ainge traded the Celtics champs when the time came to rebuild, it didn't deter Hayward or Horford from signing.
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Post by Tom Izzo on Jun 8, 2018 22:50:47 GMT
Danny Ainge traded the Celtics champs when the time came to rebuild, it didn't deter Hayward or Horford from signing. Well, first I'm not saying anything is a blanket rule. Second, not sure you can compare those situations. The Celtics champs understood it was time to move on, Ainge made a great move that, at the time, people thought it gave Brooklyn and those players more chances to compete. The Celtics were basically saying, hey, we're blowing this up...We're going to send you away to let you still compete for championships.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Jun 9, 2018 0:38:48 GMT
Danny Ainge traded the Celtics champs when the time came to rebuild, it didn't deter Hayward or Horford from signing. Well, first I'm not saying anything is a blanket rule. Second, not sure you can compare those situations. The Celtics champs understood it was time to move on, Ainge made a great move that, at the time, people thought it gave Brooklyn and those players more chances to compete. The Celtics were basically saying, hey, we're blowing this up...We're going to send you away to let you still compete for championships. Lol, Brooklyn, what a bunch of smobs in that front office.
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Jun 9, 2018 1:20:20 GMT
Good offer? Kindly define that so that we are talking in the same level. That you sign players and are willing to ship them away if it's a deal you like. Point being, players are people and they expect some kind of loyalty when they chose to come to your team when they didn't have to. The willingness to sign players and ship them out, contributing to a low loyalty rating, is a generally negative trait that should deter players from signing. Are you not going to trade a player for a trade you LIKE?
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Jun 9, 2018 2:15:43 GMT
That you sign players and are willing to ship them away if it's a deal you like. Point being, players are people and they expect some kind of loyalty when they chose to come to your team when they didn't have to. The willingness to sign players and ship them out, contributing to a low loyalty rating, is a generally negative trait that should deter players from signing. Are you not going to trade a player for a trade you LIKE? I mean yeah. But in real life stability is a value. The players have families that get uprooted and everything when a trade happens. It's why it doesn't happen much except around the trade deadline in real life. If we're role playing as real life stability should be considered a good thing. However, total inaction could similarly be considered a detrimental thing too particularly when dealing with a star player.
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