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MIN - UTA
Mar 19, 2018 14:19:46 GMT
via mobile
Post by Jared Montini on Mar 19, 2018 14:19:46 GMT
I know there are steals in the 2nd round. Draymond and Jokic are good examples. But Hana basically said that since there have been 3 guys drafted in the 2nd round that are about 85 overalls, then that's how the pick should be valued in this trade. The odds of a late 2nd even getting a guy who will play multiple seasons at 15 MPG is highly unlikely. I totally agree with what you're saying, I was just saying if he doesn't believe in Zubac I'm not sure his value is definitely a 1st rounder. A 2nd with another young late-1st round player (Brice IRL) isn't terrible value IMHO. Fair point, I'm leaning much more toward an accept then a reject but would like to hear if Elton Brand has heard of Zubac or what he thinks of him as a player
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Post by Allen Iverson on Mar 19, 2018 15:00:23 GMT
The Chicago-Utah trade got passed with Marvin Williams' awful contract added to a 2nd for nothing. Basically a salary dump with a 2nd for a contract that long. That alone should be rejected if we're protecting new GMs here. Felt like Chicago shouldve given more. This trade falls under the "trade doesn't ruin much a team's future, etc. therefore accept" or the other term which is "Doesn't hurt much to reject. Accept" which the TC used for past trades (including the Chi-Utah trade). I accept. PS. Please be consistent if you guys want to "protect" new GMs from making questionable trades. Edit: +1 Activity here for those GMs saying I'm not active
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Post by Walt Frazier on Mar 19, 2018 15:18:27 GMT
Edit: +1 Activity here for those GMs saying I'm not active Quoted so I could like it again.
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
Dec 16, 2022 11:27:40 GMT
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Mar 19, 2018 16:04:15 GMT
Edit: +1 Activity here for those GMs saying I'm not active Quoted so I could like it again. Ian's plan worked, bravo.
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Post by Chauncey Billups on Mar 19, 2018 17:00:55 GMT
That deadlocks us at 2accepts - 2rejects. But I'm going to change my vote to a reject. Alex English is correct in his assessment. If a GM can't change his mind, why can a TC member, ESPECIALLY after it would have technically been passed?
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Post by Charles Barkley on Mar 19, 2018 17:12:45 GMT
That deadlocks us at 2accepts - 2rejects. But I'm going to change my vote to a reject. Alex English is correct in his assessment. If a GM can't change his mind, why can a TC member, ESPECIALLY after it would have technically been passed? I agree with Chauncey's statement here. I reject the trade.
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Post by Ian Noble on Mar 19, 2018 18:01:50 GMT
That deadlocks us at 2accepts - 2rejects. But I'm going to change my vote to a reject. Alex English is correct in his assessment. If a GM can't change his mind, why can a TC member, ESPECIALLY after it would have technically been passed? TC members are encouraged to take their time to make a decision and change their mind if they want, because the longer TC members are given to deliberate upon their decisions the better. GMs are locked into a decision because they tend to change their mind on trades after the TC or other GMs comment. GMs could otherwise use trade submissions as a forum for gaging public perception on their trades and continually change their mind and make life difficult for the GMs they trade with.
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Post by Charles Barkley on Mar 19, 2018 18:08:27 GMT
If a GM can't change his mind, why can a TC member, ESPECIALLY after it would have technically been passed? TC members are encouraged to take their time to make a decision and change their mind if they want, because the longer TC members are given to deliberate upon their decisions the better. GMs are locked into a decision because they tend to change their mind on trades after the TC or other GMs comment. GMs could otherwise use trade submissions as a forum for gaging public perception on their trades and continually change their mind and make life difficult for the GMs they trade with. You credited your change of mind being due to another GM's opinion.... You didn't deliberate, you were the first to vote accept. Then read what everyone else had said, and then admitted you were now going to reject and follow other's logic.
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Post by Shaquille O'Neal on Mar 19, 2018 18:15:12 GMT
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Post by Shaquille O'Neal on Mar 19, 2018 18:15:22 GMT
joke
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Post by Charles Barkley on Mar 19, 2018 19:11:05 GMT
Mutiny is still punishable by death in England
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Post by Ian Noble on Mar 19, 2018 21:35:50 GMT
Okay if we can just agree I'm a dumass and handled it badly, we still need to get through this GM vote
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MIN - UTA
Mar 19, 2018 21:41:10 GMT
via mobile
Post by Walt Frazier on Mar 19, 2018 21:41:10 GMT
2 accept, 2 reject, 2 waiting to hear from Elton, at least 2 who talked in this thread while voting wasn't open but didn't vote...
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Post by Ian Noble on Mar 19, 2018 21:56:12 GMT
Mutiny is still punishable by death in England I used to live near Chester, which is a Roman town. It's technically still legal to shoot a Welshman with a bow & arrow within the city walls after nightfall.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Mar 19, 2018 22:51:33 GMT
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Elton Brand
Former Jazz GM
Sophomore
Posts: 258
Feb 4, 2021 0:33:37 GMT
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Post by Elton Brand on Mar 19, 2018 23:22:38 GMT
I believe Zubac could potentially be a decent role playing center in the future, based on his G-League stats. However, he was given some decebt minutes in D5 and he did not impress me. He is averaging 1.1 points, 1.2 assists, and 1.1 rebound in 14 minutes per game, but there are some players who are averaging similar stats in less minutes. I believe that Zubac would get more playing time elsewhere, as there is many other young centers on our roster that compete for playing time. I believe Brice Johnson could be a nice roleplayer for our squad, sort of like Patrick Patterson.
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MIN - UTA
Mar 19, 2018 23:34:10 GMT
via mobile
Post by Jared Montini on Mar 19, 2018 23:34:10 GMT
Accept
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Post by Chauncey Billups on Mar 19, 2018 23:44:10 GMT
I accept, shoulda went through
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
Dec 16, 2022 11:27:40 GMT
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Mar 20, 2018 0:04:54 GMT
Going to reject because he is basing this off of d5 stats.
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Post by Jay Z on Mar 20, 2018 0:17:48 GMT
accept because there was never enough here to reject.
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Post by Shane Battier on Mar 20, 2018 0:31:37 GMT
I accept. This trade should have been processed already since it got 3 accepts from the TC
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Mar 20, 2018 6:55:02 GMT
I am going to reject. This is a clear value loss for one of the worst teams in D5, and a team that has a brand new GM. If Elton Brand is not convinced that this is a bad trade for him, then he needs to only read this thread and see how much Walt, a very veteran and savvy GM, is campaigning to get this passed. That should raise some red flags for you if you are a new GM. I agree with Alex that we need to protect teams like Utah from making this little value-loss trades that start to add up.
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Post by Ian Noble on Mar 20, 2018 10:55:12 GMT
6 accepts 3 rejects
Trade passed!
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MIN - UTA
Mar 20, 2018 11:22:14 GMT
via mobile
Post by Walt Frazier on Mar 20, 2018 11:22:14 GMT
I am going to reject. This is a clear value loss for one of the worst teams in D5, and a team that has a brand new GM. If Elton Brand is not convinced that this is a bad trade for him, then he needs to only read this thread and see how much Walt, a very veteran and savvy GM, is campaigning to get this passed. That should raise some red flags for you if you are a new GM. I agree with Alex that we need to protect teams like Utah from making this little value-loss trades that start to add up. "Campaigning"? *Scoff* I campaigned that the trade should have passed already since it had 3 accepts, yes. I think it's unfair and can set some weird precedent. If Alex doesn't happen to get on and vote before Ian comes through and processed the trade, it would have passed. It feels wrong and unfair to me in all honesty. This trade isn't making or breaking my team, I don't honestly care THAT much about it. I've liked Zubac since he was drafted (hard for me to say for a Lakers player) and was happy to get the opportunity to acquire him. My main concern here was honestly the unfair nature of 3 accepts = trade passed, right? NO Edit so my point doesn't get lost: we need a better system. Either TC are not allowed to change their mind, or at the very least, once it hits 3 accepts the thread "locks" for all intents and purposes. Even if 2 TC come in and post 2 rejects, no one else can change their mind if they voted because the thread and votes stop counting once there are 3 accepts OR 3 rejects. You can post something so it's in the record books and you can quote it 3 seasons later and show you had doubts but you can't change your vote. This will also make TC be even more careful with their votes imo.
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Post by Ian Noble on Mar 20, 2018 12:08:25 GMT
Edit so my point doesn't get lost: we need a better system. Either TC are not allowed to change their mind, or at the very least, once it hits 3 accepts the thread "locks" for all intents and purposes. Even if 2 TC come in and post 2 rejects, no one else can change their mind if they voted because the thread and votes stop counting once there are 3 accepts OR 3 rejects. You can post something so it's in the record books and you can quote it 3 seasons later and show you had doubts but you can't change your vote. This will also make TC be even more careful with their votes imo. To me it doesn't seem like that big of a deal and, if anything, I think the opposite: "TC members are encouraged to take their time to make a decision and change their mind if they want, because the longer TC members are given to deliberate upon their decisions the better."
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MIN - UTA
Mar 20, 2018 12:47:30 GMT
via mobile
Post by Walt Frazier on Mar 20, 2018 12:47:30 GMT
Edit so my point doesn't get lost: we need a better system. Either TC are not allowed to change their mind, or at the very least, once it hits 3 accepts the thread "locks" for all intents and purposes. Even if 2 TC come in and post 2 rejects, no one else can change their mind if they voted because the thread and votes stop counting once there are 3 accepts OR 3 rejects. You can post something so it's in the record books and you can quote it 3 seasons later and show you had doubts but you can't change your vote. This will also make TC be even more careful with their votes imo. To me it doesn't seem like that big of a deal and, if anything, I think the opposite: "TC members are encouraged to take their time to make a decision and change their mind if they want, because the longer TC members are given to deliberate upon their decisions the better." It feels highly unfair for trade A to get three accepts and then Ian comes through, it happens to be on his time line where he pushes trades through, and that trade is accepted. However, trade b gets 3 accepts, maybe it is overnight for Ian, or he's just busy, which is totally fine. Suddenly another trade Committee Member gets on, puts in a reject, and then another member changes their mind, and now this trade is out the window or at least at a league vote. I swear, this is not about my specific trade which got passed anyway. Here I am still talking about this so that should lend some Credence to what I'm saying is my point. I truly feel that once the trade has three accepts or rejects it should be locked. All of that said, I 1000% agree that the trade committee members should take their time and deliberate. If they are unsure about it, simply post your original thoughts without posting an accept or reject yet. Take all the time you want. Hell, even say you are waiting for Alex to post because he tells you how to vote. All right, I'm kidding there... But don't vote if you're not ready to vote. Edit: And I would further say that if someone else can make you change your vote, you should not have voted yet.
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Post by Ian Noble on Mar 20, 2018 13:04:19 GMT
Walt Frazier you are literally Hitler Hmm I can see the virtue in what you're saying for sure, I'm just not sure whether it's important enough to be a rule considering this is the first time in 7 years, and several hundred trades, that this has happened. I definitely didn't give the trade enough due consideration.
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Mar 20, 2018 13:17:44 GMT
Boo! Ian!
Goo! Walt!
#TankerHater
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Post by Walt Frazier on Mar 20, 2018 14:19:03 GMT
Walt Frazier you are literally Hitler Hmm I can see the virtue in what you're saying for sure, I'm just not sure whether it's important enough to be a rule considering this is the first time in 7 years, and several hundred trades, that this has happened. I definitely didn't give the trade enough due consideration. Lmao I'm sorry! I have a deep-seated "fairness" bone or something. It's not just this at all, but something about the situation triggered me....
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Post by Ian Noble on Mar 20, 2018 15:10:35 GMT
Walt Frazier you are literally Hitler Hmm I can see the virtue in what you're saying for sure, I'm just not sure whether it's important enough to be a rule considering this is the first time in 7 years, and several hundred trades, that this has happened. I definitely didn't give the trade enough due consideration. Lmao I'm sorry! I have a deep-seated "fairness" bone or something. It's not just this at all, but something about the situation triggered me.... If it happens again then sure let's lay down some rules regarding it. I'm going to give more due consideration before giving verdicts. I was having a shitty day yesterday is my excuse, lol.
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