Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
Dec 16, 2022 11:27:40 GMT
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Mar 13, 2018 15:57:12 GMT
After probably close to two and a half weeks, OKC and CHI have come to a trade agreement that could shape D5 for years to come. Shane is a great GM and definitely knows when to push and take during trade talks, so I tip my hat off to him.
OKC Trades:
93 Demarcus Cousins 27,414,225 30,429,790 33,777,067 37,492,544 75 Wesley Johnson 1,502,871 73 Randy Foye 800,000 900,000 00 Shelvin Mack (contract) 1,510,000 2,010,000 2,510,000 OKC 2021 2nd
Totals 31,227,096 33,339,790 37,492,544 37,492,544
CHI Trades:
82 Gary Harris 1,819,440 2,710,966 77 Julius Randle 3,781,683 5,044,765 79 Robin Lopez 6,500,000 74 Ty Lawson 13,676,310 15,180,704 16,850,582 72 Arron Afflalo 13,000,000 14,224,917 14,856,070
Totals 38,777,433 37,161,352 31,706,652
This trade works under the 125% rule -- 31,227,096 *1.25 = 39,033,870.
Why OKC does this trade:
I have been asking around now for a little while in regards to interest in Cousins and ultimately Shane offered the best package of young players and contracts that I can move this year or next year to keep reforming my roster. The two other teams that I had serious talks with were Orlando and Sacramento, but couldn't agree on anything. This trade was difficult for me to do on many levels. One, Personal: DMC is one of my favorite players in the NBA, so trading him was never imaginable for me. Two, Value: Trying to make an assessment on what DMC's value is was very difficult. While his injury is of some concern, he is still really young in only being 27 and he is/was the best center in the NBA hands down. Three, Differentiate: Since joining D5 I have had some pretty unfortunate luck. Every year right before the playoffs it seems one of my main players goes down with an injury. I have never really had a team going into the playoffs full strength from a starting lineup perspective, so who knows if this trade would even happen if I had won a championship. I feel I need to change up my team composition to compete now and in the future. My roster up to now just hasn't been able to beat the top teams and I feel a change is needed where the focal point can be KD. In this trade I obtain Gary Harris, whom up to seeing him play in real life, I just thought he was a good player. After watching him play the Cavs a couple weeks ago and continuing to watch him further, I think he is special (I retract any words I said about him in the stockwatch). I also get Randle, who I think a lot of people underrate because he isn't super flashy. Randle has lost a lot of weight and has gotten in better shape recently and his play is starting to show it. I also get the bird rights to both of these players. Robin Lopez is included in the deal to help me to continue to compete this year. The two big contracts in Lawson and Afflalo make the money work and I am not too concerned with them as I view them as near expiring contracts and potential assets to tanking teams. Lastly, since Chicago is in the East, I don't have to deal with him until the finals.
Why CHI does this trade:
Well, not much to say here. If you have the chance to pair Wall, Butler, Leonard, and Cousins, you do it. Also, CHI is in a great position as his team can continue to tank with an all-star lineup out with injuries.
Lastly, I really haven't made any big moves since joining D5 and I think this is my fourth season already. It will be interesting to see everyone's opinion on this trade, but I don't think there is anything that constitutes a rejection.
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Mar 13, 2018 17:52:39 GMT
Jesus. I gave up 3x this to get Porzingis. But I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad trade for OKC.
I gotta get out my pen and paper and recalculate my title window because the East is royally screwed for the next 5 years. Incredible job by Shane. The only question mark is whether or not DMC comes back healthy.
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
Dec 16, 2022 11:27:40 GMT
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Mar 13, 2018 18:00:01 GMT
See your point, but I like Harris and Randle over Wiggins and Levine by a good amount. I already think Harris is better than both right now. But either way I think you made a good move in Kristaps. You giving up the PHX first was the rough part of your deal.
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Post by Mark Price on Mar 13, 2018 18:11:01 GMT
Those Lawson and Afflalo contracts are not good....not good at all.
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
Dec 16, 2022 11:27:40 GMT
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Mar 13, 2018 18:14:22 GMT
Those Lawson and Afflalo contracts are not good....not good at all. They will be expiring contracts next year and worth a fair amount with the cap. Doesn't hurt me this year, so to me it is a future asset.
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Mar 13, 2018 18:15:42 GMT
See your point, but I like Harris and Randle over Wiggins and Levine by a good amount. I already think Harris is better than both right now. But either way I think you made a good move in Kristaps. You giving up the PHX first was the rough part of your deal. To each his own I guess. I don’t think Harris will ever be more than a role player 3rd option guy. His 17 ppg isn’t that impressive in today’s NBA where teams are scoring 110+ on a regular basis. LaVine and Wiggins undeniably have higher ceilings, but perhaps you are right that Harris is better right now. Randle is interesting. Will be curious to see what the Lakers do with him.
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Post by Bryan Colangelo on Mar 13, 2018 19:04:39 GMT
Wall - Butler - Kawhi - N/A - Cousins
Sorry i'll look over the trade soon but god damn Shane. What the fuck man lol
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Post by Ian Noble on Mar 13, 2018 20:02:18 GMT
I think for many of us who take this league seriously this is a distressing trade to witness. The accumulation of this much talent on the Chicago Bulls is outside the realms of realism, but let's take a look at the deal.
It's basically:
Harris + Randle
<->
Cousins
with filler thrown in to make the salaries work.
There's also a hilarious OKC 2021 2nd Rounder cherry on top? Was Shane Battier so incredibly good at negotiating that he said he would not make this deal if there weren't a 2nd Rounder? lol
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Mar 13, 2018 20:03:59 GMT
I mean, is it a given that DMC takes that player option? Shane is taking on a massive amount of risk here.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Mar 13, 2018 20:04:38 GMT
See your point, but I like Harris and Randle over Wiggins and Levine by a good amount. I already think Harris is better than both right now. But either way I think you made a good move in Kristaps. You giving up the PHX first was the rough part of your deal. Harris Lavine Randle Wiggins Is how I rank them.
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Post by Ian Noble on Mar 13, 2018 20:22:02 GMT
To me it looks like Cousins will opt-in this Summer. The Bulls will be the best team in the league next year and Cousins will actually make *less money* if he opts out and signs elsewhere - as a 9 year veteran his max starting contract is $29,729,900.
So Cousins opts-in, the Bulls are over the Hard Cap in Summer 2020, but who cares they still probably win the championship every single year until this group grow old.
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
Dec 16, 2022 11:27:40 GMT
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Mar 13, 2018 20:22:06 GMT
See your point, but I like Harris and Randle over Wiggins and Levine by a good amount. I already think Harris is better than both right now. But either way I think you made a good move in Kristaps. You giving up the PHX first was the rough part of your deal. Harris Lavine Randle Wiggins Is how I rank them. Fair assessment. I am trying to get younger and build more around KD and there after. It's why I went after Barnes as well. There is no guarantee what Cousins will be like and I personally feel that randle and Harris have high ceilings. Going to be irritating if this gets declined and then either DMC comes out on the bad end or both Harris and randle become all-star calibar players. I tried to trade with Sacramento and tried to trade with Orlando, but neither wanted to give that much. Had barber offer me Andrew Wiggins straight up for DMC, there's that. I am not going to trade him just to trade him. One of the last picks in the second round I could care less about. I could just sign one of the I drafted guys and it would be the same. A lot of unknowns in this trade but it comes down to is thai rejectable? I don't see how it is, but ultimately it's not my decision.
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
Dec 16, 2022 11:27:40 GMT
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Mar 13, 2018 20:25:28 GMT
Wall - Butler - Kawhi - N/A - Cousins
Sorry i'll look over the trade soon but god damn Shane. What the fuck man lol You have a lesser version of this. Lowry, Derozan, Green, Milsap, Vucevic. One could argue three of your players are better than the second best on the Bulls, but everyone is kosher with it. Just saying.
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Post by Chauncey Billups on Mar 13, 2018 20:30:21 GMT
The accumulation of this much talent on the Chicago Bulls is outside the realms of realism
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
Dec 16, 2022 11:27:40 GMT
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Mar 13, 2018 20:32:48 GMT
I think for many of us who take this league seriously this is a distressing trade to witness. The accumulation of this much talent on the Chicago Bulls is outside the realms of realism, but let's take a look at the deal. It's basically: Harris + Randle <-> Cousins with filler thrown in to make the salaries work. There's also a hilarious OKC 2021 2nd Rounder cherry on top? Was Shane Battier so incredibly good at negotiating that he said he would not make this deal if there weren't a 2nd Rounder? lol Golden state has four top 15 players on their team, no?
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
Dec 16, 2022 11:27:40 GMT
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Mar 13, 2018 20:35:27 GMT
To me it looks like Cousins will opt-in this Summer. The Bulls will be the best team in the league next year and Cousins will actually make *less money* if he opts out and signs elsewhere - as a 9 year veteran his max starting contract is $29,729,900. So Cousins opts-in, the Bulls are over the Hard Cap in Summer 2020, but who cares they still probably win the championship every single year until this group grow old. Tell you what. Put this trade through and run the sim with the adjusted rosters. If the Bulls win three out of the next five years then you can veto the trade if you are worried about competitiveness.
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Mar 13, 2018 20:48:17 GMT
Cousins will opt out after next season. His max in 2019-20 will be higher than his current contract. So either Shane loses Cousins after next year because he won't have bird rights and is way over the cap or Cousins is much worse after his injury, doesn't opt out and Shane is stuck with a crippled player on a huge contract for many year.
This deal is a homerun for Kevin. It might not be obvious now but in 2 years everyone is gonna look back and see it.
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Post by Ian Noble on Mar 13, 2018 20:50:40 GMT
To me it looks like Cousins will opt-in this Summer. The Bulls will be the best team in the league next year and Cousins will actually make *less money* if he opts out and signs elsewhere - as a 9 year veteran his max starting contract is $29,729,900. So Cousins opts-in, the Bulls are over the Hard Cap in Summer 2020, but who cares they still probably win the championship every single year until this group grow old. Tell you what. Put this trade through and run the sim with the adjusted rosters. If the Bulls win three out of the next five years then you can veto the trade if you are worried about competitiveness. That's not how accepting/rejecting trades works Either way Shane Battier deserves a round of applause because this is a stupendous haul with absolutely perfect timing. The smartest thing to do as a GM is sell high and buy low and we're seeing either end of the extremes here.
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Post by Jay Z on Mar 13, 2018 20:54:44 GMT
I think for many of us who take this league seriously this is a distressing trade to witness. The accumulation of this much talent on the Chicago Bulls is outside the realms of realism, but let's take a look at the deal. Our hard Cap is high enough to allow this, your Celtics team is going to look even more stacked one day, enough space to max out 5 guys coming off their rookie deal with room to fill our the rest of the roster with mle signings and such. Trade itself looks good, no guarantee Cousins comes back 100%, still a testament to this Bulls team who could get zero contribution from Cousins throughout his whole contract and still be a title contender for the next 3 years. He'll flirt with the hard cap in year 3 but it shouldn't be hard at all for em em to manage it, might not even hit it if this projection I'm looking at comes true. Actually, OKC flirts with the hard cap too in year three if they keep and re-sign those two young players they get in this trade.
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
Dec 16, 2022 11:27:40 GMT
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Mar 13, 2018 21:07:43 GMT
Tell you what. Put this trade through and run the sim with the adjusted rosters. If the Bulls win three out of the next five years then you can veto the trade if you are worried about competitiveness. That's not how accepting/rejecting trades works Either way Shane Battier deserves a round of applause because this is a stupendous haul with absolutely perfect timing. The smartest thing to do as a GM is sell high and buy low and we're seeing either end of the extremes here. Understand, but if you are going to veto out of competition then you should actually see if it hurts the league rather than just assume. The problem here is that there is a lot of unknown and it can't be measured no matter what your opinion is because no one knows how Cousins will be and no one knows what Harris and randle will be.
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Post by Shane Battier on Mar 13, 2018 21:09:05 GMT
I accept. I have read articles about the injury of Cousins and it is something to be really concerned about. However, I feel like I'm in a good position to take the risk and see how Cousins recover from this injury even with the hard cap coming. Hate to see Harris and Randle go but this is the kind of deal I need to make to win the championship.
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Post by Bryan Colangelo on Mar 13, 2018 21:29:17 GMT
This is just my opinion:
Cousins is eligible next year to receive the max contract since he will be in his 10th year. He also has a Player option as well. I would assume Cousins will opt out and try and get the max. This will hurt Shane since he won't have bird rights to resign him.
Option 2: Let's say worse case, Cousin opts-in that year. Shane will now have B/R but his team is stacked with contracts. He will be forced to make a trade in order to be under the hardcap if he brings back Cousins.
Therefore Shane sells his youth to try and win for a few years and Kevin gets some key guys to build around.
This will hurt OKC in the West as they are currently 2nd but as some have said on here, I truly think OKC wins this deal in the long term but Shane wins right now since he gets the best player. Also, who knows if Cousins comes back the same player. So many questions and risk for Shane.
I'll accept this deal.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Mar 13, 2018 21:39:12 GMT
I think for many of us who take this league seriously this is a distressing trade to witness. The accumulation of this much talent on the Chicago Bulls is outside the realms of realism, but let's take a look at the deal. It's basically: Harris + Randle <-> Cousins with filler thrown in to make the salaries work. There's also a hilarious OKC 2021 2nd Rounder cherry on top? Was Shane Battier so incredibly good at negotiating that he said he would not make this deal if there weren't a 2nd Rounder? lol If you had told me a title winning team had the amount of money to sign Kevin Durant I'd have called you an idiot. That haopened in real life. We have several players with way more talent than is realistic year after year, GSW now with LBJ, Denver a few seasons ago, Chicago, soon it will be my team. Unrealistic pools of talent happen every now and then in the NBA, heck if these teams existed as is in the real life NBA Adam Silver would cream himself. I like this trade more because I hated the DMC contract when he was signed in the first place, it's a dumb contract and shouldn't have happened in the first place. It looks like Chicago is gonna end up in cap hell if they don't win a title in the next couple of years if he doesn't draft well in the late rounds.
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Post by Charles Barkley on Mar 13, 2018 22:17:58 GMT
The accumulation of this much talent on the Chicago Bulls is outside the realms of realism Well, I mean, y’all sent Kawhi there when half the league begged you not to do it.
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Post by Charles Barkley on Mar 13, 2018 22:20:10 GMT
There’s also that argument to be made that a team with one BONAFIDE star performs better versus them having 1-3 other too flight talent — 88 plus — with them
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Chris Mullin
Golden State Warriors
Starter
Posts: 1,303
Feb 19, 2024 21:58:28 GMT
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Post by Chris Mullin on Mar 13, 2018 22:36:58 GMT
I think this is a good trade for both OKC and Chicago, but especially for OKC.
Chicago is taking a big gamble that Cousins doesn't opt out after next season because he would have no way of re-signing him if that happened.
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Mar 13, 2018 23:24:42 GMT
If Cousins opt-in, and then opt-out for 2019 offseason, CHI will not get his BR.
And for Chicago. Cleveland would love to smack that big 4 in the playoffs, next season.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Mar 14, 2018 4:55:46 GMT
Maaaaaaaaannnnnn.............
So, I think I'm with pretty much everyone who is pointing at DMC's injury risk / unknown return (what will his performance level be at that point?!) ALONG with the contract and hard cap questions.
We've also got two talented young players going the other way. I'm neither player's biggest fan but it's undeniable there is talent there. How much? Not sure. But BR's are huge, OKC has a really good team still.
And, we've got two very established GMs here. Shane seems to understand the risk, Kevin seems a bit worried about DMC's injury and contract/hard cap situation and also wants to just shake things up a bit.
All told - Accept from me.
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Post by Ian Noble on Mar 14, 2018 10:13:59 GMT
I'm the opposite of most posters here, I think Cousins will opt-in and I think OKC seriously regrets this trade.
In terms of ratings: Harris is an 82. I see his ceiling as a 85 or 86 max, and I doubt he ever even gets there. Also Randle just isn't that great imho. To trade a Hall of Fame big man for those two is not sensible.
Most importantly: For the league as a whole it pains me to see so many great players on one team - too many great players. In terms of realism I felt like Golden State was still realistic with Lebron/Steph/Klay, but this Bulls team is going to stand out like a big red flag. Newcomers to D5 will take a look through our rosters, see Chicago's team, and quite rightly jump to conclusions about D5, I know I would. A certain level of realism is gone from D5 with this trade, for the first time ever in my opinion, a bridge has been crossed that I never wanted D5 to cross, I just hope the Hard Cap really does do its job eventually and brings the Bulls back down to Earth.
If this trade occurs in a vacuum though, it is not rejectable. I reluctantly accept.
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Post by Ian Noble on Mar 14, 2018 10:20:36 GMT
Trade passed.
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