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Post by JR Wiles on Feb 22, 2018 0:32:37 GMT
I understand that Mark is a new GM, but he's been here looking and talking and it's not like he's losing out majorly. With all those contracts he can't do anything but sit still. Sure he could get more. We all could in trades. The thing is the rules in place and the deal accepted. It won't be his worst move, nor will it hurt anyone involved.
This trade will likely work out for All parties involved and I wish Mark the best in our league moving forward.
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Post by JR Wiles on Feb 22, 2018 6:24:23 GMT
In response to Josh's comment and thoughts on the trade above-
I have been an active GM for most of my 5+ seasons. I think even at one time I had more clicks or whatever than the entire league if I remember correctly. I live in MD so I think I also remember MD being the most active state at that moment. I've been around the block with players(Many returning being liked so much), bad decisions on my part and other Gms(Mainly Player Agents), fights between myself and multiple Gms(Including Bad choice of words from both sides), making the Western Conference Finals eventually to Lose(While having the league's Best Season Record- Both Conferences), the opportunity to only sit out the playoffs twice, among so many other things that I've been apart of or that I have done as A General Manager in the league.
I've been part of Many Many trades that fell apart and did not happen. Many that could have changed the opinion of other Gms about my team and how I've constructed my teams through the seasons or entirely. I've also been in trades I have decided to not do before the trade was EVER posted. I've seen too many trades to where other Gms get into the convo only to have Gms question their desire to make a move altogether and at times ask to get out of a trade. That's why the RULE Was put into effect. So that once a trade was posted and accepted, Gms could not back out and hurt the parties involved. A GM does not have to accept a posted trade. Even if a GM posts a trade he must acceoit the trade and at that time the trade or contract is a binding deal unless All Parties Accept. Not just the asking GM and a % of the Gms in the trade but All....
I know Mark is a new GM. I think he will do great. I've said that and I BELIEVE it. I don't think this trade is bad enough or unfair enough to overturn or back out of FAIRLY to All GMs involved.
I've Lost trades, been screwed over and won my share but I feel that it would effect my team and what I need to do and what I have been working on. I ask that this trade be accepted and that I fairly receive my guys... my team...the one I constructed within rules and in fairness and because I care about my team and our league. I don't leave our league because even though a few past mistakes were made... this is the BEST LEAGUE WITH THE BEST ADMIN AND THE BEST GMS. And I trust Ian will follow the rules in place or said by himself and keep the trade in place and complete.
I wish Josh and Mark the Best... But just to let you both know...just like I said I was not doing the trade without both in our convos... I won this trade for Our Team... Josh gets his pick and Mark clears cap. I hope everything works out better than ever for All and mostly For Mark while keeping in this deal.
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Feb 22, 2018 6:40:00 GMT
^ Sorry I deleted my comment right before JR posted that one haha.
My previous comment said that I don’t mind if we cancel the trade because Mark is new, but for Mark to think carefully and not just change his mind because of the opinion of other GMs.
I really do feel like it’s the same GMs attacking every single trade, always saying one side is getting ripped off. It doesn’t only happen to my trades, but if I am really ripping people off so much, why has my team sucked for the entirety of the new D5? Trading is tough, it’s the hardest way to build a team IMO. And you sorta gotta anticipate other GMs posting their very polarized opinions, sometimes for you and sometimes against you.
I honestly don’t think this is a bad trade for LAL, I think it is much worse for SAS. But it appears we all value these guys differently.
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Post by Mark Price on Feb 22, 2018 20:15:32 GMT
I'm not asking out of the trade. I'm a man of my word and it's my fault for not looking into things like I should. In real life, this is a good trade for me. Harrison Barnes isn't worth the money he's getting in this sim. He's a 15 ppg guy who's good at many things, but a master of none. He's not a superstar like he's getting paid. JV, in my opinion, also fell into that category. I knew that this sim loved centers, but I thought I could get better value and wasn't a fan of his contract. I got picks, a replacement for Barnes that's worse in real life, but is on a much better contract, and expiring contracts that I maybe could flip. In real life, this is a good trade.
Where this trade breaks down is when you realize Harrison Barnes is some kind of super human in this sim and is one of the best players in the league (which is nothing like he is in real life). He's 19th in the league in scoring with 23.3 points per game. He's averaging more than Kyrie, Giannis, Butler, CP3, Cousins, Klay Thompson, etc. He's also averaging nearly 9 boards a game, shooting 37.6% from deep, and 49.6% from the floor. This isn't the player he is in real life. Given his age and he's locked up long term, you can argue that he's more valuable in this sim then Giannis.
I accept the responsibility of this trade. I should've looked into the specifics of the sim more. I knew it was based on the mid-2000s, but HB isn't a guy that would've dominated like this then. This trade can go down and I have no reason to complain. But you can't argue I'm not getting screwed based on this sims. In this sim, Barnes is a franchise player and I'm giving him away for expirings and a second.
It's a trade that's great for me in real life, but awful for me in this sim. Arguing that it's a good trade for me in this sim is false based on the data.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Feb 22, 2018 22:12:20 GMT
I don't think that anyone on the TC factors Sim performance at all. We are based on real-life value pretty much exclusively, at least ideally.
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Post by Mark Price on Feb 23, 2018 0:04:24 GMT
I don't think that anyone on the TC factors Sim performance at all. We are based on real-life value pretty much exclusively, at least ideally. That's probably a good rule, but when a player unexpectedly deviates from both his rating and his real life performance, I feel like it doesn't hold up. We're talking about a guy, who the sim for some reason, thinks is a more efficient scorer then LeBron and KD. He's averaging 23.3 points on 49.6% shooting and 37.6% shooting from 3. The only player that is scoring the same or more while shooting a higher percentage in both categories is Jokic. Not to mention he's pulling down 8.9 boards a game. He's an 80 overall, and that seems like an appropriate rating for him, but he's playing as a top player in the league. You can't treat him as having the value he has in real life and a dominant value in the sim. Considering these trades are being made in the sim and not in real life, it seems foolish solely on real life value. I was foolish for not checking to see if Barnes was a more efficient scorer than LeBron in the sim. I just assumed he was somewhat close to his real life counterpart. It was my mistake, but I'm getting screwed on this trade. It would be cool if the committee (who's point is to not allow people to get screwed) wouldn't allow people to get fleeced on trades where the sim player is vastly different from the real life player in the future.
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Post by James Kay on Feb 23, 2018 0:12:39 GMT
I don't think that anyone on the TC factors Sim performance at all. We are based on real-life value pretty much exclusively, at least ideally. That's probably a good rule, but when a player unexpectedly deviates from both his rating and his real life performance, I feel like it doesn't hold up. We're talking about a guy, who the sim for some reason, thinks is a more efficient scorer then LeBron and KD. He's averaging 23.3 points on 49.6% shooting and 37.6% shooting from 3. The only player that is scoring the same or more while shooting a higher percentage in both categories is Jokic. Not to mention he's pulling down 8.9 boards a game. He's an 80 overall, and that seems like an appropriate rating for him, but he's playing as a top player in the league. You can't treat him as having the value he has in real life and a dominant value in the sim. Considering these trades are being made in the sim and not in real life, it seems foolish solely on real life value. I was foolish for not checking to see if Barnes was a more efficient scorer than LeBron in the sim. I just assumed he was somewhat close to his real life counterpart. It was my mistake, but I'm getting screwed on this trade. It would be cool if the committee (who's point is to not allow people to get screwed) wouldn't allow people to get fleeced on trades where the sim player is vastly different from the real life player in the future. What you’ll learn about the sim isn’t that “Barnes is an efficient 23 point scorer” but more that “Barnes on the Lakers with Kemba and Dragic and Vala is an efficient 23 point scorer on a bad team”
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Post by Mark Price on Feb 23, 2018 0:16:09 GMT
That's probably true. I clearly have a lot to learn about the sim.
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
Dec 16, 2022 11:27:40 GMT
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Feb 23, 2018 0:17:13 GMT
That's probably a good rule, but when a player unexpectedly deviates from both his rating and his real life performance, I feel like it doesn't hold up. We're talking about a guy, who the sim for some reason, thinks is a more efficient scorer then LeBron and KD. He's averaging 23.3 points on 49.6% shooting and 37.6% shooting from 3. The only player that is scoring the same or more while shooting a higher percentage in both categories is Jokic. Not to mention he's pulling down 8.9 boards a game. He's an 80 overall, and that seems like an appropriate rating for him, but he's playing as a top player in the league. You can't treat him as having the value he has in real life and a dominant value in the sim. Considering these trades are being made in the sim and not in real life, it seems foolish solely on real life value. I was foolish for not checking to see if Barnes was a more efficient scorer than LeBron in the sim. I just assumed he was somewhat close to his real life counterpart. It was my mistake, but I'm getting screwed on this trade. It would be cool if the committee (who's point is to not allow people to get screwed) wouldn't allow people to get fleeced on trades where the sim player is vastly different from the real life player in the future. What you’ll learn about the sim isn’t that “Barnes is an efficient 23 point scorer” but more that “Barnes on the Lakers with Kemba and Dragic and Vala is an efficient 23 point scorer on a bad team” Agreed. Certain combos just don't work out for whatever reason.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Feb 23, 2018 4:35:29 GMT
...............
Damn Barber....
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New GM.........
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But he seems sensible...
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Easy to justify any portion of this trade, really....
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Just wouldn't do it myself if I was any team other than the Nets....
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Theoretically that's what makes a league fun though, different values....
Ok I accept.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Feb 23, 2018 5:03:40 GMT
I don't think that anyone on the TC factors Sim performance at all. We are based on real-life value pretty much exclusively, at least ideally. Sim performance mattered back when updates weren't as regular and you could trade for a 75 guy and know he'd stay that rating at least until after the season.
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Post by Charles Barkley on Feb 23, 2018 5:43:17 GMT
There has been sim based performance rationale in the past, see Detroit - Indiana; RJ Hunter as the most recent experience.
we can't lift the rules only sometimes for people. Think the moratorium should apply, as should other rules, uniformly across all GMs in all applicable circumstances.
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Post by Ian Noble on Feb 23, 2018 11:26:11 GMT
Trade passed
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