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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Jan 10, 2018 7:56:11 GMT
D5 Analytics
#2 - Rating Correlations This was originally going to be one massive post, but I have decided to break it up into two separate posts, with the next coming next week. This first section will cover basic correlations between player ratings and player statistics. The second part will dive deeper and will include the element of "player style" in the discussion.
My interest over this topic was originally sparked through a discussion with Chauncey Billups about his team's poor performance to start the season. I headed over to the statistics section of the forum and scrolled down to the Sacramento Kings on the most recent post. Woah. Andre Drummond is shooting only 39% from the field, Thaddeus Young is shooting 29%, Otto Porter is shooting 37%, Avery Bradley is shooting 41%, and Damian Lillard is shooting 44%. These guys are all rated well overall, but they all suck in the sim. I went over to the most recent player ratings thread to investigate, and didn't see anything too unusual about any of his team. In fact, when looking back at the statistics, it appears that a lot of teams seem to be shooting unreasonably low percentages this year. I thought about writing an analytics article on this fact alone, but instead decided to try to find the root cause and figure out just how our rating changes are impacting in-game play.
Thus, I took all of the player ratings (Jan 4) and all of the player statistics (Dec 1 in game) and compiled them into one nice big excel file. Then, I removed any player who has played less than 10 games and any player who plays less than 20 minutes per game. I didn't want the low-minute guys to alter my results. I was left with a database of 153 players who met the criteria of 10+ games and 20+ mpg, which I think is a pretty good population to use for my formulas. I then ran some correlations between our player ratings and their D5 stats. Here are some of the more interesting things I found.
Assists This is the highest correlation I found in all of my results. The “Pass” rating holds a 93% correlation with assists per game. This means that it is super easy for us to increase someone’s assists simply by increasing the Pass rating. Even a guy like Tyus Jones, who is a 69 overall rating, is averaging 8.1 assists per game. Tyus has the 16th highest Pass rating in D5.
Something else I will point out here is that the Pass Rating actually had a higher correlation with fewer TO per game (-50%) than did the Handle rating (-32%). Our league leader in turnovers per game is Avery Bradley, who has a respectable 79 handle but only a 29 pass rating. In fact, none of the top 15 highest-turnover players have over a 50 pass rating, but almost all of them are guards with high handle ratings. The handle rating doesn’t actually seem to correlate with anything, which leaves me wondering if it is really even utilized in-game. Conclusion? If we want to reduce turnovers, we need to increase Pass. But that's also going to increase assists.
Rebounds The second highest correlation is for rebounds. I added together OReb and DReb ratings, and ran a correlation versus rebounds per game. The two data sets are correlated at 86%. We actually have 23 players averaging above 10 rebounds per game, as compared to just 11 guys doing it in real-life. Our biggest underachiever is Enes Kanter, who has the 9th highest total rebound rating but averages only 7.9 rebounds (not even top 50). I thought that this surely has to do with physical attributes, as teammate Joel Embiid averages over 10 rebounds per game but has lower rebound ratings, but ran a correlation of Jump rating vs Rebounds per game and actually found a negative correlation of -20%! (meaning a higher Jump rating corresponds to lower rebounds). Perhaps this is because our “jump” ratings are typically allocated to guards instead of bigs. As such, I ran a correlation between our Strong rating and RPG, and found a solid correlation of 74%. This again may be due to the fact that “strong” is typically probably allocated to big men who already have high rebound ratings. I don't really have an explanation as to why Joel Embiid is outrebounding Enes Kanter, except maybe it has something to do with Play Style.
Blocks Also highly correlated, at 84%. We have 13 guys averaging over 2 blocks, whereas only 5 guys do that in real-life. LeBron averages 2.4 blocks in the sim with only a 58 block rating, but he has 99 D Aware and great athletics. On the other end of the spectrum, Giannis averages only 0.5 blocks yet is a top 15 blocker in the league rating-wise. I think this may be because his rating was recently changed. The physical attribute that seems to impact Blocks per game the most is the Strong rating, which is correlated at 72%. Marc Gasol is an interesting case here, as he only has a 65 Block rating, yet averages 2.6 blocks per game (4th in the league). His Strong rating is an 81, and DAware is an 85. These are respectable ratings, but he still seems to be vastly overperforming.
Steal Rating vs. Steals per Game 63% correlation. It actually got worse when adding in the "Quick" rating. No real comments.
Free Throw Shooting Free throw rating is a decent indicator of FT%, with a 79% correlation. I also theorized that the “FG” rating somehow impacts free throw shooting as well, so I added both FT + FG together and compared it to free throw percentage, and got a worse correlation at 72%. I don’t really have any conclusions here except that maybe some of the physical attributes impact FT shooting. I tried a few different physical attributes out (namely, Fatigue) but got much lower correlations than just using FT%.
Field Goal Shooting The Field Goal Rating only correlates 22% to a player’s field goal percentage. There are obviously then a ton of factors that go into FG%. In fact, the Inside Scoring rating is a better correlation with FG% (51%), which makes sense as inside players typically shoot better from the field. Surprisingly, CJ McCollum has our highest FG rating in D5, ahead of Durant, Curry, and others. McCollum also has our third highest 3p rating, and second highest FT rating. However, CJ shoots just 46% from the field and 43% from three in D5. Field Goal percentage will be the main topic of my next post.
Three Point Shooting To run this test, I did not include any players with below a 20 three point rating, as they do not shoot many threes and would skew the results. Three point percentage only held a 32% correlation with three point rating. What!? Even when doing the same second test as I did for freethrows (adding 3p rating + FG rating together to run the correlation versus 3p%), I got a worse correlation at 28%. Our highest 3p rating in the league is Steph Curry (96 rating), and he shoots 37.7%. Our best three point shooters are Mirza Teletovic (55.6%, only 75 rating), Wilson Chandler (52.2%, 75 rating) and Malcolm Brogdon (50%, 89 rating). I’m not sure what to conclude here except that there must be a lot of other factors impacting 3p%. I think my data may still have not been great, even after removing players with below a 20 rating.
My overall conclusion is that this stuff is confusing and there is obviously a lot going into the sim engine. Hopefully my next post including Play Style leads to some more definitive analysis. Stay tuned!
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Post by Ian Noble on Jan 10, 2018 9:31:18 GMT
wow amazing stuff Josh! It's really, REALLY odd to see such a low correlation between FG and 3PT and percentages.
I would be interested to see the correlation between field goals attempted or three pointers attempted and the corresponding player rating to see how much of an increase to FG or 3PT also increases the number of shot attempts.
Walt's got as good an idea as possible of how FG and 3PT should correspond to percentages of field goals/3points made (although as your analysis shows, the correlation is weak), but how an increase in shooting percentage might be balanced with the effect of an increase in shots attempts is possibly something that could be given a mathematical formula? I get the feeling that good shooters sometimes shoot too much, like Joe Ingles on my bench or a guy like Kyle Korver, and at the other end of the spectrum guys like Westbrook who don't shoot enough but have roughly realistic percentages. I'm not even sure where to start with an analysis like that right now, but it's been on my mind.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 10, 2018 12:32:42 GMT
This is awesome Josh, thanks I only "know" what I've found while researching online in forums, mostly. At least, what ratings are supposed to correlate, but we've always felt things were far from perfect and there was still a lot to figure out. I've got a reason for every rating I do, though it would take a while to explain them all right now And I've always acknowledged it's not perfect, but I've attempted to be consistent, at least. That said, I do notice ratings out of whack and over time have been decreasing block ratings overall as I noticed we get too many blocks here,for example.
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Posts: 0
Nov 27, 2024 1:44:44 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 14:21:17 GMT
Low correlations in distance shooting makes perfect sense and is how it should be. It's the sim giving us varied results so every season isn't the same!
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Jan 10, 2018 15:25:48 GMT
This is seriously one of the coolest posts in D5 history. Kudos Josh
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Post by Chauncey Billups on Jan 10, 2018 18:07:03 GMT
This is a great post and I think you should keep digging. It's a little weird that there aren't any direct correlations between FG and three point shooting. Considering that the other areas have high correlations, I think this may be where team "chemistry" and make-up come into play. It would be interesting to look into players with high %s and their teammates passer ratings, FG ratings, etc.
Good work, Josh.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 11, 2018 4:07:06 GMT
Low correlations in distance shooting makes perfect sense and is how it should be. It's the sim giving us varied results so every season isn't the same! This is certainly one plausible and respectable solution to the mysteries of the sim engine.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 11, 2018 4:19:24 GMT
This is a great post and I think you should keep digging. It's a little weird that there aren't any direct correlations between FG and three point shooting. This actually doesn't bother me much. What I think I know about FG in this game is its supposed to basically be a players actual "shot", in 2 PT land. Mid-range, more or less. So there's that, and there's also the fact that a lot of players are better 3pt shooters (relatively) than they are mid-range shooters. And especially big men will often develop a long range shot before they work midrange, if they ever work midrange at all. That being said, I am worried that some of the really low FG ratings I've been starting to hand out to Cs who literally don't "shoot" the ball, are having too severe an effect on their FG%'s. It's still early but it's worth watching. It would be interesting to look into players with high %s and their teammates passer ratings, FG ratings, etc. Agreed, would be an interesting dive.
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Jan 11, 2018 8:35:36 GMT
That being said, I am worried that some of the really low FG ratings I've been starting to hand out to Cs who literally don't "shoot" the ball, are having too severe an effect on their FG%'s. It's still early but it's worth watching. This is a theory I have as well, so I just ran some more tests. Ian didn't write the code to post statistics in the usable format until the 2015/2016 season (they used to be you have to click individual teams), but I just took the above linked thread and inserted 2015/16 FG% into my same player base that I used in my larger post above. On average, players are shooting a staggering 2.94% worse today in D5 than they did in the 2015/16 season. The biggest "losers" are almost all big men. MKG (18.6% worse) Steven Adams (16.9% worse) Brook Lopez (15.7% worse) Mason Plumlee (15.4% worse) The biggest "winners" are almost all wings. Wesley Matthews (12% better) Mirza Teletovic (10.7% better) Shaun Livingston (10.2% better) Michael Beasley (10.2% better) Not sure if it really matters as long as we are implementing a consistent approach across the entire league, but its definitely interesting to look at. I wonder if team PPG is down overall as well or if the sim has compensated somehow.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 11, 2018 12:19:05 GMT
That being said, I am worried that some of the really low FG ratings I've been starting to hand out to Cs who literally don't "shoot" the ball, are having too severe an effect on their FG%'s. It's still early but it's worth watching. This is a theory I have as well, so I just ran some more tests. Ian didn't write the code to post statistics in the usable format until the 2015/2016 season (they used to be you have to click individual teams), but I just took the above linked thread and inserted 2015/16 FG% into my same player base that I used in my larger post above. On average, players are shooting a staggering 2.94% worse today in D5 than they did in the 2015/16 season. The biggest "losers" are almost all big men. MKG (18.6% worse) Steven Adams (16.9% worse) Brook Lopez (15.7% worse) Mason Plumlee (15.4% worse) The biggest "winners" are almost all wings. Wesley Matthews (12% better) Mirza Teletovic (10.7% better) Shaun Livingston (10.2% better) Michael Beasley (10.2% better) Not sure if it really matters as long as we are implementing a consistent approach across the entire league, but its definitely interesting to look at. I wonder if team PPG is down overall as well or if the sim has compensated somehow. One thing I'd also LOVE to find out is what correlations Inside and Dunk have to fg%. Even if poor correlations. I'm still not sure if Dunk is literally just a players ability to complete Dunk-contest-style dunks, OR, if it is supposed to be their ability to finish around the rim in general, while "inside" is more about post moves, and shots in the paint, type of thing. I think it's the 2nd one for Dunk, at least I hope so, but I don't think we'll be able to tell, really. ALSO, some of our earlier rating changes (which would have affected those stats for 2015/16), we were using FG% as the only marker for the FG Stat. Once we realized what looks obvious now, that FG% would be a combination of FG, Dunk, Inside, and of course to some extent their 3pt shot, we started to give people more varied ratings across those 3 categories especially (FG / Dunk / inside). So the question also should be, not just who is shooting worse or better but more importantly, which method is getting more realistic results, generally. I do agree the sim engine is a fickle beast, likely on purpose, so we should likely run much bigger samples before making conclusions that we use to alter our processes again. All of that being said, the "style" conversation is probably of the most interest to me personally.
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Post by Ghazny Dimalen on Jan 29, 2018 4:42:57 GMT
wow this is a good stuff.
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Post by Ghazny Dimalen on Jan 29, 2018 5:54:13 GMT
for my own understanding regarding the simengine of nbalive 06 thru FG%, Primacy has a big role in FG% output.
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