Magic Johnson
Former Lakers GM
Sophomore
Posts: 458
Feb 27, 2024 20:39:01 GMT
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Post by Magic Johnson on Jul 30, 2012 4:33:02 GMT
Okay I know your not the biggest TD fan, which is the same as I am not one of the biggest LBJ fan, but to say TD is 48th best player is INSANE.
Here are players I agree with, have maybe (debate), NO, and last but not least LOL
Michael Jordan = AGREE Wilt Chamberlain = AGREE Bill Russell = AGREE Shaquille O’Neal = AGREE Oscar Robertson = DEBATABLE (BUT AGREE FOR SAKE) Magic Johnson = AGREE Kareem Abdul-Jabbar = AGREE Larry Bird = AGREE Kobe Bryant = AGREE Jerry West = DEBATABLE (BUT AGREE FOR SAKE) Elgin Baylor = DEBATABLE (BUT AGREE FOR SAKE) Hakeem Olajuwon = AGREE Bob Petit = DEBATABLE = (BUT AGREE FOR SAKE) Moses Malone = NO Julius Erving = NO John Havlicek = DEBATABLE (BUT AGREE FOR SAKE) Karl Malone = DEBATABLE (BUT AGREE FOR SAKE) Isiah Thomas = NO Charles Barkley = NO Rick Barry = NO Elvin Hayes = NO Bob Cousy = NO David Robinson = NO Kevin McHale = TOUGH but NO Scottie Pippen = NO Jason Kidd = NO George Mikan = NO Kevin Garnett = NO LeBron James = AGREE Wes Unseld = DEBATABLE Walt Frazier = NO Patrick Ewing = NO Allen Iverson = NO Gary Payton = NO Clyde Drexler = NO Dave Cowens = NO George Gervin = NO Earl Monroe = NO Dwyane Wade = DEBATABLE (Wade still has his career left for him) Reggie Miller = NO Dirk Nowitzki = NO James Worthy = NO Bob Lanier = NO Robert Parish = LOL Alonzo Mourning = LOL Bill Walton = LOL Joe Dumars = NO Dikembe Mutombo = NOW YOUR TROLLING
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 2, 2024 15:10:25 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2012 5:49:18 GMT
Are you serious? Some of them I stretched on, but how can you say Moses Malone, Julius Erving, Charles Barkley, Dirk Nowtizki, Dwyane Wade, Bill Walton, Patrick Ewing, Kevin Mchale, David Robinson, and Isiah Thomas aren't better than Timmy? My dad would like fight you over this, as he thinks Moses is the greatest player ever.
I'd like to add that Mutombo shut Duncan down in 03 when the Spurs swept the Nets; and that's a fact.
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Post by Mike Krzyzewski on Jul 30, 2012 17:22:31 GMT
I about got choked on my lunch when i read some of the names on this list. Wow. Here are the only players I would put above Tim Duncan... 1 Michael Jordan 2 Wilt Chamberlin 3 Magic Johnson 4 Bill Russell 5 Kobe 6 Larry Bird 7 Shaq 8 Kareem Abdul Jabbar 9 Oscar Robertson 10 Karl Malone 11 Tim Duncan The next 4 or so are very close and definitely debatable: 12 Dr J 13 Jerry West 14 David Robinson 15 Hakeem Olijuwan 16 Lebron James 17 Elgin Baylor 18 Dirk Nowitzki Notice there is no Iverson, Cowens, Dumars or Mutumbo on this list
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 2, 2024 15:10:25 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2012 17:41:25 GMT
I about got choked on my lunch when i read some of the names on this list. Wow. Here are the only players I would put above Tim Duncan... 1 Michael Jordan 2 Wilt Chamberlin 3 Magic Johnson 4 Bill Russell 5 Kobe 6 Larry Bird 7 Shaq 8 Kareem Abdul Jabbar 9 Oscar Robertson 10 Karl Malone 11 Tim Duncan The next 4 or so are very close and definitely debatable: 12 Dr J 13 Jerry West 14 David Robinson 15 Hakeem Olijuwan 16 Lebron James 17 Elgin Baylor 18 Dirk Nowitzki Notice there is no Iverson, Cowens, Dumars or Mutumbo on this list How can not put Moses Malone on this list? Bill Walton? Patrick Ewing? I could keep on going. Duncan is just SO overrated. And Mutombo is not just absurd; as he shut Duncan down in the 03 Finals.
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Post by Mike Krzyzewski on Jul 30, 2012 17:56:02 GMT
I about got choked on my lunch when i read some of the names on this list. Wow. Here are the only players I would put above Tim Duncan... 1 Michael Jordan 2 Wilt Chamberlin 3 Magic Johnson 4 Bill Russell 5 Kobe 6 Larry Bird 7 Shaq 8 Kareem Abdul Jabbar 9 Oscar Robertson 10 Karl Malone 11 Tim Duncan The next 4 or so are very close and definitely debatable: 12 Dr J 13 Jerry West 14 David Robinson 15 Hakeem Olijuwan 16 Lebron James 17 Elgin Baylor 18 Dirk Nowitzki Notice there is no Iverson, Cowens, Dumars or Mutumbo on this list How can not put Moses Malone on this list? Bill Walton? Patrick Ewing? I could keep on going. Duncan is just SO overrated. And Mutombo is not just absurd; as he shut Duncan down in the 03 Finals. Walton? Wow. Great college player. Mostly a role player in NBA though. Very rarely even made a playoff appearance. Probably only a true starter for less than 5 years. Not even in the conversation with Duncan. Doubt he even make a top 100. Mutumbo? Great defensive player but really? He is a career 10 point, 10 rebound guy. I hate to tell you but there are plenty of those kind of guys. Again, I love his defense but no championships and very little offense. There are NO one dimensional guys on the list. Also, he didn't guard Duncan much in the finals...he guarded Robinson. Duncan won the MVP and the Ring...how are you saying Mutumbo shut him down again? Ewing: Extremely over-rated. I would take Wilt, Russell, David Robinson, Hakeem, Shaq and Moses Malone over him before it was even close at the center spot. Moses Malone - He is at least debatable. The only guy you mentioned which should even be in the argument. I personally have Moses #23 overall but again, he is at least debatable.
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Post by Alex English on Jul 30, 2012 18:24:13 GMT
Duncan is the greatest power forward of all time for me. The only player that is debatable is Karl Malone but you play to win and 4 championships to 0 gives Duncan the edge. He is also a guarenteed top 15 player of all-time and an argument could be made for top 10. It seems like everyone is on my side of the debate Rex.
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Post by Alex English on Jul 30, 2012 18:25:24 GMT
And Mutombo is not just absurd; as he shut Duncan down in the 03 Finals. So is Allen Iverson better than Michael Jordan because he crossed him over that one time? Edit: Haha dude, whatever you think happened in the 2003 Finals did not happen. These are Duncan's stats during that series: G - 6 MPG - 43.8 PPG - 24.2 RPG - 17.0 APG - 5.3 BPG - 5.3 SPG - 1.0 And in the sixth game where they clinched the title Duncan had a near quadruple double with 21 points, 20 rebounds, 10 assists and 8 blocks. Not surprisingly he won the Finals MVP too.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 2, 2024 15:10:25 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2012 18:45:44 GMT
It seems like everyone is on my side of the debate Rex. I don't really care, I know what I see. I will argue you that Lebron is better than MJ, and I know I am right.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 2, 2024 15:10:25 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2012 18:52:09 GMT
How can not put Moses Malone on this list? Bill Walton? Patrick Ewing? I could keep on going. Duncan is just SO overrated. And Mutombo is not just absurd; as he shut Duncan down in the 03 Finals. Walton? Wow. Great college player. Mostly a role player in NBA though. Very rarely even made a playoff appearance. Probably only a true starter for less than 5 years. Not even in the conversation with Duncan. Doubt he even make a top 100. Mutumbo? Great defensive player but really? He is a career 10 point, 10 rebound guy. I hate to tell you but there are plenty of those kind of guys. Again, I love his defense but no championships and very little offense. There are NO one dimensional guys on the list. Also, he didn't guard Duncan much in the finals...he guarded Robinson. Duncan won the MVP and the Ring...how are you saying Mutumbo shut him down again? Ewing: Extremely over-rated. I would take Wilt, Russell, David Robinson, Hakeem, Shaq and Moses Malone over him before it was even close at the center spot. Moses Malone - He is at least debatable. The only guy you mentioned which should even be in the argument. I personally have Moses #23 overall but again, he is at least debatable. You are 100% right, he did not played much, but he RIPPED Duncan a new ass when he did play. This will pretty much answer all of you; yes Duncan WAS a great player. However, he has been a product of the Spurs system since 05. In my opinion, Parker and Manu do not get enough credit for their success while Duncan receives way too much. Duncan is probably a top 30 player at best, but I will take a guy like Bill Walton who DOMINATED one year and almost single handily won the title himself.
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Post by Alex English on Jul 30, 2012 18:56:21 GMT
It seems like everyone is on my side of the debate Rex. I don't really care, I know what I see. I will argue you that Lebron is better than MJ, and I know I am right. What about this then? Edit: Haha dude, whatever you think happened in the 2003 Finals did not happen. These are Duncan's stats during that series: G - 6 MPG - 43.8 PPG - 24.2 RPG - 17.0 APG - 5.3 BPG - 5.3 SPG - 1.0 And in the sixth game where they clinched the title Duncan had a near quadruple double with 21 points, 20 rebounds, 10 assists and 8 blocks. Not surprisingly he won the Finals MVP too. Are the facts wrong? You know your right that Mutombo shut Duncan down no matter what? C'mon dude, you clearly aren't remembering things correctly.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 2, 2024 15:10:25 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2012 19:03:41 GMT
Edit: Haha dude, whatever you think happened in the 2003 Finals did not happen. These are Duncan's stats during that series: G - 6 MPG - 43.8 PPG - 24.2 RPG - 17.0 APG - 5.3 BPG - 5.3 SPG - 1.0 And in the sixth game where they clinched the title Duncan had a near quadruple double with 21 points, 20 rebounds, 10 assists and 8 blocks. Not surprisingly he won the Finals MVP too. Are the facts wrong? You know your right that Mutombo shut Duncan down no matter what? C'mon dude, you clearly aren't remembering things correctly.[/quote] NJ DIDN'T PLAY HIM MUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by Mike Krzyzewski on Jul 30, 2012 19:22:15 GMT
And Mutombo is not just absurd; as he shut Duncan down in the 03 Finals. So is Allen Iverson better than Michael Jordan because he crossed him over that one time? Edit: Haha dude, whatever you think happened in the 2003 Finals did not happen. These are Duncan's stats during that series: G - 6 MPG - 43.8 PPG - 24.2 RPG - 17.0 APG - 5.3 BPG - 5.3 SPG - 1.0 And in the sixth game where they clinched the title Duncan had a near quadruple double with 21 points, 20 rebounds, 10 assists and 8 blocks. Not surprisingly he won the Finals MVP too. Thanks for the stats. I just went back and looked and saw that Mutumbo averaged exactly 13.7 minutes per game in the finals. Even his coach knew at the time that he couldn't hang with Robinson OR Duncan I am trying to get a handle on this...we are talking about Mutumbo being better than Duncan on the all-time list. Really? We all must be pretty bored
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Post by Mike Krzyzewski on Jul 30, 2012 19:26:25 GMT
It seems like everyone is on my side of the debate Rex. I don't really care, I know what I see. I will argue you that Lebron is better than MJ, and I know I am right. You are old enough to have watched your boy Bill Walton? Wow, as old as I am, I didn't get to watch him live when he was good (1 or 2 years in the mid 70's). Basically no TV coverage of the NBA back then unless you were Boston or LA in general.
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Otis Smith
Former Rockets GM
Sophomore
Posts: 280
Dec 24, 2013 6:32:46 GMT
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Post by Otis Smith on Jul 30, 2012 21:23:22 GMT
Are you serious? Some of them I stretched on, but how can you say Moses Malone, Julius Erving, Charles Barkley, Dirk Nowtizki, Dwyane Wade, Bill Walton, Patrick Ewing, Kevin Mchale, David Robinson, and Isiah Thomas aren't better than Timmy? My dad would like fight you over this, as he thinks Moses is the greatest player ever. I'd like to add that Mutombo shut Duncan down in 03 when the Spurs swept the Nets; and that's a fact.[/quote Just please stop saying Mutombo is better than Duncan. That was disgusting to the game of basketball. Moses is easily the most underrated nba all great (by far best rebounder of all time) but I would rather still take Duncan because Duncan other than Hakeem, Russel, and Kareem is the best two-way NBA great. You said Dumars was better than Duncan, when he wasn't even the best player on his own team (you could argue during the championship teams he was 3rd or 4th best). Still your hate of Duncan is beyond insane. Also FYI 03 finals the Spurs didn't sweep the Nets it was 4-2.
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Lucas Lutkus
Former Bobcats GM
Sophomore
Posts: 684
Jul 16, 2013 9:57:53 GMT
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Post by Lucas Lutkus on Jul 30, 2012 23:15:53 GMT
Duncan is a top 20 player all-time. Period.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 2, 2024 15:10:25 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2012 1:51:04 GMT
So is Allen Iverson better than Michael Jordan because he crossed him over that one time? Edit: Haha dude, whatever you think happened in the 2003 Finals did not happen. These are Duncan's stats during that series: G - 6 MPG - 43.8 PPG - 24.2 RPG - 17.0 APG - 5.3 BPG - 5.3 SPG - 1.0 And in the sixth game where they clinched the title Duncan had a near quadruple double with 21 points, 20 rebounds, 10 assists and 8 blocks. Not surprisingly he won the Finals MVP too. Thanks for the stats. I just went back and looked and saw that Mutumbo averaged exactly 13.7 minutes per game in the finals. Even his coach knew at the time that he couldn't hang with Robinson OR Duncan I am trying to get a handle on this...we are talking about Mutumbo being better than Duncan on the all-time list. Really? We all must be pretty bored Mutombo got hurt during that year and only played 24 games during the regular season. He got back for the playoffs, and the Nets put him in and he SHUT DOWN Duncan. I'm sorry, but Mutombo could not even hang with Shaq. I really don't understand everyone's obsession with Tim Duncan. People say he is so great, but what does he do so well? Then, if you speak out against him, people get PISSED OFF like Timmy is their son or something. I heard about how great of a guy he is, I ask how do you know? He never talks, so it is hard to know what he is really about. Duncan cannot compare with someone like David Robinson, who you could just tell was a nice guy. I just don't get the Duncan thing; it is a huge mystery.
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Otis Smith
Former Rockets GM
Sophomore
Posts: 280
Dec 24, 2013 6:32:46 GMT
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Post by Otis Smith on Jul 31, 2012 2:07:23 GMT
Thanks for the stats. I just went back and looked and saw that Mutumbo averaged exactly 13.7 minutes per game in the finals. Even his coach knew at the time that he couldn't hang with Robinson OR Duncan I am trying to get a handle on this...we are talking about Mutumbo being better than Duncan on the all-time list. Really? We all must be pretty bored Mutombo got hurt during that year and only played 24 games during the regular season. He got back for the playoffs, and the Nets put him in and he SHUT DOWN Duncan. I'm sorry, but Mutombo could not even hang with Shaq. I really don't understand everyone's obsession with Tim Duncan. People say he is so great, but what does he do so well? Then, if you speak out against him, people get PISSED OFF like Timmy is their son or something. I heard about how great of a guy he is, I ask how do you know? He never talks, so it is hard to know what he is really about. Duncan cannot compare with someone like David Robinson, who you could just tell was a nice guy. I just don't get the Duncan thing; it is a huge mystery. People are weirded out because you said Joe Dumars and Mutombo are better than Timmy D and then you said he doesn't even compare with David Robinson (even though just by stats Timmy is more impressive than David Robinson ever was). I'm sorry I know sports are subjective but only to a certain point. I hope you are trolling or something.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 2, 2024 15:10:25 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2012 2:11:31 GMT
Mutombo got hurt during that year and only played 24 games during the regular season. He got back for the playoffs, and the Nets put him in and he SHUT DOWN Duncan. I'm sorry, but Mutombo could not even hang with Shaq. I really don't understand everyone's obsession with Tim Duncan. People say he is so great, but what does he do so well? Then, if you speak out against him, people get PISSED OFF like Timmy is their son or something. I heard about how great of a guy he is, I ask how do you know? He never talks, so it is hard to know what he is really about. Duncan cannot compare with someone like David Robinson, who you could just tell was a nice guy. I just don't get the Duncan thing; it is a huge mystery. People are weirded out because you said Joe Dumars and Mutombo are better than Timmy D and then you said he doesn't even compare with David Robinson (even though just by stats Timmy is more impressive than David Robinson ever was). I'm sorry I know sports are subjective but only to a certain point. I hope you are trolling or something. Lmao, you are weirded out that I don't worship Tim Duncan?
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Otis Smith
Former Rockets GM
Sophomore
Posts: 280
Dec 24, 2013 6:32:46 GMT
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Post by Otis Smith on Jul 31, 2012 2:46:48 GMT
People are weirded out because you said Joe Dumars and Mutombo are better than Timmy D and then you said he doesn't even compare with David Robinson (even though just by stats Timmy is more impressive than David Robinson ever was). I'm sorry I know sports are subjective but only to a certain point. I hope you are trolling or something. Lmao, you are weirded out that I don't worship Tim Duncan? I'm weirded out that you think Dumars was better than Duncan.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 2, 2024 15:10:25 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2012 3:58:03 GMT
Lmao, you are weirded out that I don't worship Tim Duncan? I'm weirded out that you think Dumars was better than Duncan. I don't think much of Timmy.....well at least Tim Duncan:
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Steve Kerr
Former Wizards GM
Rookie
Posts: 45
Sept 12, 2012 1:02:46 GMT
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Post by Steve Kerr on Jul 31, 2012 13:48:41 GMT
Timmy is a great player. I do not fancy the guy or anything. He is just good at what he does when he was still on his prime. He is not fun to watch. As to where he ranks among the greatest is a never ending debate.
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Magic Johnson
Former Lakers GM
Sophomore
Posts: 458
Feb 27, 2024 20:39:01 GMT
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Post by Magic Johnson on Jul 31, 2012 19:24:12 GMT
Are you serious? Some of them I stretched on, but how can you say Moses Malone, Julius Erving, Charles Barkley, Dirk Nowtizki, Dwyane Wade, Bill Walton, Patrick Ewing, Kevin Mchale, David Robinson, and Isiah Thomas aren't better than Timmy? My dad would like fight you over this, as he thinks Moses is the greatest player ever. I'd like to add that Mutombo shut Duncan down in 03 when the Spurs swept the Nets; and that's a fact. Malone - debatable, but I'd give slight edge to Duncan Julius Irving - great player but Duncan more consistent and had more memorable playoff runs. Barkley - HIGHLY AND BLATANTLY OVERRATED Dirk - STUD, but his teams have lost a lot H2H against SAS, and see DAL w/o Chandler hiding Dirk's deficienies, I still respect him today though, I think HE IS THE SIXTH BEST NBA PLAYER in the NBA TODAY. Wade - tough to call right now, has a chance to crack top 10 pending he stays healthy and has atleast one more FINALS MVP type run in him. Bill Walton -LULWUT, great college player, injury prone role player in NBA Patrick Ewing - Great player but GETS grossly overrated, had solid teams and still lost with them (Marc Jackson, John Starks, Charles Oakley etc.). Kevin McHale - He's interesting because if he was a FULL TIME starter, he is DEFINITELY 100 LOCK better then Duncan, but him as a 6th man puts it into question so I am not too sure about this one. Isiah Thomas - BOTH EXCELLENT aces but Duncan was more consistent as overall player. David Robinson - Solid player a HOF, but really his team didn't take off until Duncan came as the *sidekick* on the team.
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