|
|
Post by James Kay on Dec 15, 2016 22:38:52 GMT
Current: 90
Suggested: 95
The guy is a superstar, may not always give full effort on D and gets caught in comical lapses, but is capable of being a very good defender. Carrying this Rockets team, his passing has really taken on a new level under D'Antoni. One of the best 6-7 players in the league.
|
|
Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838 
|
Post by Kevin Hollis on Dec 15, 2016 22:49:14 GMT
93
|
|
|
|
Post by Alex English on Dec 16, 2016 3:12:41 GMT
I was preparing a big old essay for a Harden increase thread once he was dropped to a 90. I feel like someone started doing my homework for me  Harden obviously should be higher than a 90. His stats are ridiculous: 27.6 ppg, 11.8 apg, 7.8 rpg, 1.5 spg, 0.3 bpg, 44.0 FG%, 35.2 3P%, 83.8 FT% He carries the Rockets offensively and now that he plays with a team that doesn't hate each other (in other words, Dwight Howard is gone), they're playing much better and if the Rockets win close to 60 games, Harden has to be a top MVP contender. He might be the #1 offensive player in the NBA as he leads the league in Offensive Real Plus Minus and both Offensive Win Shares and total Win Shares. He's also currently putting up a career high in Win Shares per 48 Minutes, Box Score Plus Minus, and PER. He's having the best season of his career both in his raw number as well as his advanced stats. Now lets talk defense, if you've watched the Rockets much this year you should see him playing much better on that end of the floor, similar to the year he came back from playing with team USA after the 2014 World Championships. It shows in the stats too that he's having one of his best year's at that end of the floor. Pick whatever stat you prefer and compare him to other big stars, he's not been a liability at all, and he's maybe even been a benefit. Defensive Box Score Plus Minus: +4.5 - Draymond Green +4.3 - Russell Westbrook +2.9 - Anthony Davis +2.0 - Chris Paul +1.9 - LeBron James +1.8 - Kevin Durant +1.2 - James Harden (3rd on HOU behind Beverley and Capela)+0.8 - Kawhi Leonard (case closed, Harden is a better defender than Kawhi) +0.4 - Jimmy Butler +0.4 - Andre Iguodala -0.2 - Paul George -0.7 - Kemba Walker -0.8 - Kyle Lowry -1.6 - Stephen Curry -1.9 - DeMar DeRozan -2.7 - Kyrie Irving -2.8 - Damian Lillard -3.3 - Klay Thompson -3.7 - Andrew Wiggins Defensive Real Plus Minus: +3.79 - Draymond Green +3.17 - Chris Paul +2.35 - Anthony Davis +2.31 - Kevin Durant +1.31 - Jimmy Burler +0.90 - LeBron James +0.59 - Andre Iguodala +0.56 - Kawhi Leonard +0.15 - Kyle Lowry -0.48 - Kemba Walker -0.51 - Russell Westbrook -0.63 - Paul George -0.76 - James Harden-0.99 - Stephen Curry -1.86 - DeMar DeRozan -2.08 - Damian Lillard -2.74 - Kyrie Irving -2.85 - Klay Thompson -2.90 - Andrew Wiggins Defensive Win Shares: 1.8 - Anthony Davis 1.6 - Draymond Green 1.5 - Chris Paul 1.5 - Kevin Durant 1.4 - Russell Westbrook 1.4 - Kawhi Leonard 1.2 - Jimmy Butler 1.1 - James Harden (1st on HOU)1.1 - Kemba Walker 1.0 - LeBron James 0.9 - Stephen Curry 0.8 - Paul George 0.7 - Kyle Lowry 0.6 - Andre Iguodala 0.6 - DeMar DeRozan 0.6 - Klay Thompson 0.4 - Kyrie Irving 0.2 - Damian Lillard 0.0 - Andrew Wiggins So based on what we can see this season, Harden is an average defender. He's certainly not the liability he's made out to be and there is no justification to take off 4 or 5 overall rating points when there are many other big names who are as bad or worse. That's especially true when this basically just affects his DAware rating when we need so many more rating points to bump up his passing and rebounding categories. He's easily a top 5 player in the league, and he should be rated like it. Even if you personally don't like his game because of the way he actively looks to draw fouls or looks lackadaisical while out on the floor, you can't act like he isn't the main guy carrying the Rockets, who have one of the best record in the NBA. I vote for a 96. |
|
|
|
Post by Walt Frazier on Dec 16, 2016 3:29:39 GMT
Just want to talk about his shooting %'s, and would like to say his ratings there are actually basically good already. His 44% FG is actually 65.6% at the basket (league average is 60.3), 37.5% in the paint (league average = 40.7), and 39.3% midrange (league average = 39.6). And then his 35% from 3, which is basically league average.
He's got a 70 FG rating, 78 3PT shot, and 81 Inside.
Based on all of our other ratings we've been doing lately, the 3PT should not be touched (if anything is a point or two high but whatever).
Also, the FG is maybe slightly high for a league-average midrange shot. But, it's again pretty close, so I'd prefer not to touch it.
Could maybe add a little bit to Inside, and his Dunk is also only at a 76 so that can definitely take some points. Maybe even an entire rating point there, definitely if shared with Inside.
Anyway, I just noticed that while I was working on his recent decrease (that's not processed yet btw). His other rating areas do have spots that need work. I'd say he needs "at least" 3 points, and optimistically up to 6. Anyone going higher than a 96 is going to force us to put certain areas way out of line. Just putting that out there.
Personally, I'll go 95. He's earned it this season.
|
|
|
|
Post by Shaquille O'Neal on Dec 16, 2016 5:43:10 GMT
98
|
|
|
|
Post by Brian Scalabrine on Dec 16, 2016 5:54:52 GMT
Interesting stats Alex. I was the one to put the Harden decrease thread up last year but I don't mind admitting when I'm wrong and in that case I was. Something about how Harden plays and moves around just seems lazy and disinterested to me but that stats don't reflect that so it might just be my bias. He's a true generational superstar who is one of the best of all time on O and good enough on D.
95
|
|
|
|
Post by Bryan Colangelo on Dec 20, 2016 15:50:50 GMT
95
|
|
|
|
Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Dec 21, 2016 1:43:27 GMT
The put-ins are great.
93
|
|
|
|
Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Dec 21, 2016 2:10:03 GMT
95
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 27, 2024 16:50:34 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2016 3:41:59 GMT
95 or 96. Much better this season, last season it was the Kardashian curse on his defense.He couldn't focus on his game  |
|
|
|
Post by Jeremiah Hill on Dec 23, 2016 2:32:07 GMT
96 basically a less athletic Westbrook with less rebounding.
|
|
|
|
Post by Alex English on Dec 26, 2016 1:30:56 GMT
Seems like most votes are in.
98, 96, 96, 95.5, 95, 95, 95, 95, 95, 94, 93 = 95.2 = 95
He's sitting at a 95 right now.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 27, 2024 16:50:34 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2016 1:32:06 GMT
96
|
|
|
|
Post by Jeremiah Hill on Dec 26, 2016 1:51:17 GMT
Interesting stats Alex. I was the one to put the Harden decrease thread up last year but I don't mind admitting when I'm wrong and in that case I was. Something about how Harden plays and moves around just seems lazy and disinterested to me but that stats don't reflect that so it might just be my bias. He's a true generational superstar who is one of the best of all time on O and good enough on D. 95 You weren't really wrong, his defense last year fucking blew asses just like it did the years before. He's picked it up this year for whatever reason and thats a good thing. |
|
|
|
Post by Charles Barkley on Dec 27, 2016 6:32:27 GMT
92.5, doesn't need much work done to him, going by where he is at now and where he should be.
His defense has not improved, he hasn't suddenly become more athletic.
So where are the points to go? Walt just laid it all out, his 3 doesn't need to be touched, and if anything, it can come down. His inside and his dunk are where the points need to go, and I cannot honestly see more than 50 points being added in those areas.
This scenario is the reason why our ratings are fucked up, and they always will be until the majority of the GMs here look at ratings on a categorical level and not compare one guy vs the next. But so many times, someone wants to say, James Harden is a top 5 player, and needs to be rated accordingly. Maybe he is rated accordingly, and the other 5 need to come down? Not saying that is the case here, but everyone voting 94+ needs to understand how ratings work.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ian Noble on Dec 29, 2016 16:12:14 GMT
Should focus this increase almost entirely on passing skill
|
|
|
|
Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Dec 31, 2016 14:20:41 GMT
92.5, doesn't need much work done to him, going by where he is at now and where he should be. His defense has not improved, he hasn't suddenly become more athletic. So where are the points to go? Walt just laid it all out, his 3 doesn't need to be touched, and if anything, it can come down. His inside and his dunk are where the points need to go, and I cannot honestly see more than 50 points being added in those areas. This scenario is the reason why our ratings are fucked up, and they always will be until the majority of the GMs here look at ratings on a categorical level and not compare one guy vs the next. But so many times, someone wants to say, James Harden is a top 5 player, and needs to be rated accordingly. Maybe he is rated accordingly, and the other 5 need to come down? Not saying that is the case here, but everyone voting 94+ needs to understand how ratings work. thanks. changing my vote to 93 |
|
|
|
Post by Jared Montini on Jan 17, 2017 0:01:47 GMT
97
|
|
|
|
Post by Brandon Roy on Jan 17, 2017 8:07:14 GMT
insane stats deserves a 96
|
|
Charlotte Hornets
Denver Nuggets
Minnesota Timberwolves
Miami Heat
New Orleans Pelicans
Toronto Raptors
Cleveland Cavaliers
Brooklyn Nets
Boston Celtics
Utah Jazz
