Spurs/Sixers

[JR Wiles]

Sixers Trade:
79 Manu Ginobili $6,838,155
79 Jamal Crawford $8,205,186
71 Lavoy Allen $750,000
75 Wesley Johnson $1,353,938 $1,502,871
Total: $17,147,279

Spurs Trade:
78 Gerald Green $3,500,000
75 Kevin Martin $6,833,275
75 Thabo Sefolosha $4,104,725
1st 2020#1 SA
Total: $14,438,000

The Spurs accept this trade. We bring in two guys that are proven and that will make our team that much better. Kevin is an OK player, but he is not a Manu Ginobili and you guys can't argue with that. Manu gives us the extra energy every team needs off the bench. Jamal is the best non starting player in the NBA in the last 10-15 years. He could have started for several teams but is the team player type of guy that wants the best for his team and will do whatever it takes. Both these guys replace role player type guys and we know this new found depth will and can take us over the top in the race to a Championship!! We give up a future pick, but in doing so we upgrade our guys, as well as add depth to our team in positions we are looking to upgrade eventually in Lavoy Allen and Wesley Johnson. As the GM for the Spurs over the past several years we have been pushed and pushed for trading picks and making certain moves. But if you look at our roster and where we stand today there is no doubt I have a plan and know what I am doing and how to make this team better long term.

Thanks

SA Management

[Kevin Hollis]

Why are you giving a first Jr? That pick could be great down the road. If anything, one could argue you are giving the better players away.

[Walt Frazier]

Jamal / Manu / Wes / (Lavoy) vs KMart / Gerald Green / Thabo is really pretty damn close. I really don't see the need for the 1st.

I'm just going to reject b/c that's not going to change my mind.

[Hanamichi Sakuragi]

That could be fine if it is GSW, not SAS.

[JR Wiles]

It's stupid.

Tell me you guys would take those guys over Crawford and Ginobili. I have proven I don't need or keep picks. I swear some GMs are just scared....

Yeah
..scared!!

[James Kay]

I would take Gerald Green and Sefalosha over Ginobili and Crawford.

[Kevin Hollis]

Considering manu is 38 and Crawford is 36, yes, I would take them over the oldies.

[JR Wiles]

Its one season. These guys and the rest of my roster is built to win. Crawford and Ginobili even at their current age are still better than 80% of the league. Look at their stats. Crawford can still score 30 any given night. He still avgs 14ppg off the bench. I understand that gms don't like what I do but I have had a plan all along and we are right there with the top teams. When was the last time I kept a player I drafted? I built the team without picks. I used my picks to move and acquire my roster. The reason I have Millsap and Thomas and Turner. We need a more talented team to bring in vet bivs in FA. We put the best players on this team!!

The TC use to be about approving trades that are FAIR.

Not deciding if "you" would make the deal. If "you" liked the deal. If "you" would take these guys over those guys.

I just think you TC guys have gotten away from your jobs. You want to cry about doing do much. Do your job!!!

[Hanamichi Sakuragi]

Jul 15, 2016 14:48:38 GMT JR Wiles said:

Its one season. These guys and the rest of my roster is built to win. Crawford and Ginobili even at their current age are still better than 80% of the league. Look at their stats. Crawford can still score 30 any given night. He still avgs 14ppg off the bench. I understand that gms don't like what I do but I have had a plan all along and we are right there with the top teams. When was the last time I kept a player I drafted? I built the team without picks. I used my picks to move and acquire my roster. The reason I have Millsap and Thomas and Turner. We need a more talented team to bring in vet bivs in FA. We put the best players on this team!!

The TC use to be about approving trades that are FAIR.

Not deciding if "you" would make the deal. If "you" liked the deal. If "you" would take these guys over those guys.

I just think you TC guys have gotten away from your jobs. You want to cry about doing do much. Do your job!!!

IMHO. That ain't fair. No disrespect JR. How about this. Put values into all the pieces involve so that the TC will better understand your point of view.

[James Kay]

Jul 15, 2016 14:48:38 GMT JR Wiles said:

Its one season. These guys and the rest of my roster is built to win. Crawford and Ginobili even at their current age are still better than 80% of the league. Look at their stats. Crawford can still score 30 any given night. He still avgs 14ppg off the bench. I understand that gms don't like what I do but I have had a plan all along and we are right there with the top teams. When was the last time I kept a player I drafted? I built the team without picks. I used my picks to move and acquire my roster. The reason I have Millsap and Thomas and Turner. We need a more talented team to bring in vet bivs in FA. We put the best players on this team!!

The TC use to be about approving trades that are FAIR.

Not deciding if "you" would make the deal. If "you" liked the deal. If "you" would take these guys over those guys.

I just think you TC guys have gotten away from your jobs. You want to cry about doing do much. Do your job!!!

JR, I’m going to humor you here, and devote some time to show why GMs league-wide, and the TC specifically, so often object to you trading your picks.

---

Picks are (2) things:

1)Trade Asset – Let’s first look at how your 1st Round Picks have fared over recent years:

2016 – 8th Overall Pick
2016 – 9th Overall Pick
2015 – 7th Overall Pick
2014 – 1st Overall Pick

There is a trend here, JR, and it makes your pick a valuable trading asset. SAS 1st Round Picks are valuable commodities. You were just able to trade your pick for Jonas Valanciunas and MCW. That shows how valuable picks can be.



2)Safety Net - Picks are safety nets if things don’t go your way. A poor free agency or trade, and any team can find themselves sinking to the bottom. Having that draft pick will help your team recover, by either becoming a very valuable trade asset(see above), or by drafting a potential star.

---

The TC is supposed to intervene when a trade is so lopsided that it is damaging to the franchise’s future. The previous four years have shown SAS picks to be top 10 picks. Therefore, SAS picks are a valuable asset. This trade is objectively lopsided. And that’s ok, trades can be lopsided. Let GMs be GMs, I agree.

BUT, when trades are lopsided AND involve relinquishing your safety net, the TC needs to get involved. Picks are essentially the most important asset a team can have for their future. That’s why you are constantly butting heads with the TC. Because you are always trading your picks.

Can you please drop this delusion that you are a persecuted GM and that we’re scared or jealous of your team? Please. Just admit that you don’t appropriately your picks. It doesn’t matter if YOU don’t like drafting. The value of your pick is indifferent to your personal team-building preferences.

I am not trying to pick a fight with you or insult you. I am just trying to explain why it seems the TC is always voting against your trades. Because your picks (and any teams picks, for that matter) are valuable assets and losing them can be significantly damaging to your teams future.

[Walt Frazier]

Jul 15, 2016 15:25:02 GMT James Kay said:

Jul 15, 2016 14:48:38 GMT JR Wiles said:

Its one season. These guys and the rest of my roster is built to win. Crawford and Ginobili even at their current age are still better than 80% of the league. Look at their stats. Crawford can still score 30 any given night. He still avgs 14ppg off the bench. I understand that gms don't like what I do but I have had a plan all along and we are right there with the top teams. When was the last time I kept a player I drafted? I built the team without picks. I used my picks to move and acquire my roster. The reason I have Millsap and Thomas and Turner. We need a more talented team to bring in vet bivs in FA. We put the best players on this team!!

The TC use to be about approving trades that are FAIR.

Not deciding if "you" would make the deal. If "you" liked the deal. If "you" would take these guys over those guys.

I just think you TC guys have gotten away from your jobs. You want to cry about doing do much. Do your job!!!

JR, I’m going to humor you here, and devote some time to show why GMs league-wide, and the TC specifically, so often object to you trading your picks.

---

Picks are (2) things:

1)Trade Asset – Let’s first look at how your 1st Round Picks have fared over recent years:

2016 – 8th Overall Pick
2016 – 9th Overall Pick
2015 – 7th Overall Pick
2014 – 1st Overall Pick

There is a trend here, JR, and it makes your pick a valuable trading asset. SAS 1st Round Picks are valuable commodities. You were just able to trade your pick for Jonas Valanciunas and MCW. That shows how valuable picks can be.



2)Safety Net - Picks are safety nets if things don’t go your way. A poor free agency or trade, and any team can find themselves sinking to the bottom. Having that draft pick will help your team recover, by either becoming a very valuable trade asset(see above), or by drafting a potential star.

---

The TC is supposed to intervene when a trade is so lopsided that it is damaging to the franchise’s future. The previous four years have shown SAS picks to be top 10 picks. Therefore, SAS picks are a valuable asset. This trade is objectively lopsided. And that’s ok, trades can be lopsided. Let GMs be GMs, I agree.

BUT, when trades are lopsided AND involve relinquishing your safety net, the TC needs to get involved. Picks are essentially the most important asset a team can have for their future. That’s why you are constantly butting heads with the TC. Because you are always trading your picks.

Can you please drop this delusion that you are a persecuted GM and that we’re scared or jealous of your team? Please. Just admit that you don’t appropriately your picks. It doesn’t matter if YOU don’t like drafting. The value of your pick is indifferent to your personal team-building preferences.

I am not trying to pick a fight with you or insult you. I am just trying to explain why it seems the TC is always voting against your trades. Because your picks (and any teams picks, for that matter) are valuable assets and losing them can be significantly damaging to your teams future.

AMEN.

Honestly I don't care if JR trades every pick he can and then trades the player he is forced to draft in the other years. What I DO care about is the value he gets for those picks and players.

You can not give your picks way for free or arguably at a negative value here. No. Reject every time.

[JR Wiles]

NBA Player Statistics 2015-2016:

PPG:
Jamal Crawford-#60**-top 60? Off the bench. 6th man of the century!
Many Ginobili-#135**
Kevin Martin-#138
Gerald Green-#146
Wesley Johnson-#200
Thabo Sefolosha-#205
Lavoy Allen-#236

RPG:
Lavoy Allen-#82**
Thabo Sefolosha-#112
Wes Johnson-#180**
Gerald Green-#189
Manu Ginobili-#216
Kevin Martin-#246
Jamal Crawford-#257

APG:
Jamal Crawford-#90**
Manu Ginobili-#95**
Thabo Sefolosha-#180
Lavoy Allen-#234
Kevin Martin-#278
Gerald Greeb-#285
Wesley Johnson-#299

MPG:
Jamal Crawford-#135**-Old head that plays...
Thabo Sefolosha-#178
Gerald Green-#189
Wesley Johnson-#217
Lavoy Allen-#233
Kevin Martin-#240
Manu Ginobili-#247--Still getting his numbers

[JR Wiles]

I get that the picks are valuable as you say. I get that. But to improve a team to have the best possible chance at winning it all,this is the way to go about that if you are not the type of GM to build through the draft. Many many times have I had no draft picks, and then all of a sudden we do. It may not be our draft pick. I get that. The situation is different. We have 3 AllStars. We have the talent. And the more talent, the better players we will get in FA and in signings. You guys can push and push and I will never be you. I will be the GM I am. No pick 3+ years from now is going to help me win then. I play at the moment. And to deny a trade because of a pick I'm going to find a way to trade anyway is just dumb. And I do see many of you not understanding how our roster is where it is now. Its because of the GM I am and the dedication and trust I put in nymy players. We don't have to agree. I just want a trade to be fair.
Crawford and Ginobili are different level players than Green and Martin. You guys might look at age or whatever, but I go by facts...and the fact is my team is improving with this trade. It will help us win a few more games and it will help with our chances of recruiting. You guys have no idea I go after my players. I don't just say hey..so and so is playing great. Let me sign him and hope he hits. That's what rookies are. What the draft is. Its the unknown. I want the best and that's what I have in this trade. The better players... To help us win.
If you think otherwise please continue watching the game. You will learn as you get older. I promise!!

[JR Wiles]

Derrick Rose-Michael Carter-Williams
Isaiah Thomas-Jamal Crawford
Evan Turner-Manu Ginobili-Wesley Johnson
Paul Millsap-Lavoy Allen-Anthony Bennett
Jonas Valanciunas-(Future FA)-TylerZeller

[Kevin Hollis]

Since I love running my mouth apparently. That lineup maybe gets you to the playoffs if Derrick rose doesn't shatter like he always does, and that's big maybe. So you give up your 1st for two players that will not be worth their current ratings and most likely won't sign back to you. Also, with Jonas going elsewhere next year and turned opting out next year, your left with three point guards and an aging power forward. With this, your 2020 will be a Lotto pick for sure.

[Walt Frazier]

All I want is a fair trade too. This is too far uneven for me to accept. You also won't change the GM that I am or the TC member I am. You are giving away value and receiving nothing in return. I will never be OK with that.

[Deleted]

I got Detroit 2020 for nothing and philly can't get one from JR for some old fucks JR still thinks is good?

[Alex English]

Ian Noble I propose we elaborate on the rule of trading first round picks. It should match the NBA and be that trading picks from consecutive years is not allowed based on your entire draft history, not just the 4 years listed in the draft rights page.

That way you can't trade your 2016 1st, wait for the draft to pass to clear up your draft rights owed, trade your 2017 pick, wait for the draft to pass, trade your 2018 pick, etc.

It's kind of a stupid loophole that we've allowed all this time anyway, so lets fix it.

With that change, I accept this trade. We'll get past this nonsense now and be done with it. Then the Spurs won't be allowed to trade a draft pick until 2022. JR can still trade draft rights immediately after making his pick, and he will every year, but you know, baby steps.

[Walt Frazier]

Jul 15, 2016 17:55:06 GMT @riogho said:

I got Detroit 2020 for nothing and philly can't get one from JR for some old fucks JR still thinks is good?

Well first of all, at least I'm consistent

Secondly, I'm going to remember this post. This means you value the players you got and their contracts and think the net value of Carlos Boozer & Nick Young, and the 2020 2nd, was net zero. That's the only way you got that 2020 1st for "nothing" as you say.

[Deleted]

Jul 15, 2016 18:15:27 GMT Walt Frazier said:

Jul 15, 2016 17:55:06 GMT @riogho said:

I got Detroit 2020 for nothing and philly can't get one from JR for some old fucks JR still thinks is good?

Well first of all, at least I'm consistent

Secondly, I'm going to remember this post. This means you value the players you got and their contracts and think the net value of Carlos Boozer & Nick Young, and the 2020 2nd, was net zero. That's the only way you got that 2020 1st for "nothing" as you say.

Oh thank you for reminding me to cut those chumps

[Walt Frazier]

Jul 15, 2016 18:38:16 GMT @riogho said:

Jul 15, 2016 18:15:27 GMT Walt Frazier said:

Well first of all, at least I'm consistent

Secondly, I'm going to remember this post. This means you value the players you got and their contracts and think the net value of Carlos Boozer & Nick Young, and the 2020 2nd, was net zero. That's the only way you got that 2020 1st for "nothing" as you say.

Oh thank you for reminding me to cut those chumps

You're quite welcome.

But yea, next time you try to take on salary at the cost of acquiring a 1st, I'll reject automatically unless the 1st is taken out of there. Since you actually like the players you're acquiring.

Thanks for making it easier!

[Deleted]

Jul 15, 2016 18:39:52 GMT Walt Frazier said:

Jul 15, 2016 18:38:16 GMT @riogho said:

Oh thank you for reminding me to cut those chumps

You're quite welcome.

But yea, next time you try to take on salary at the cost of acquiring a 1st, I'll reject automatically unless the 1st is taken out of there. Since you actually like the players you're acquiring.

Thanks for making it easier!

Where did I say or imply at any time me or anyone else in their right mind wouldn't consider young and boozer to be a negative asset?

[Deleted]

Oh I see, well it's "nothing" to me because I'm not pursueing any free agents. It's not technically nothing.

So go ahead and make biased votes in the future over semantics if that's your deal Walt Frazier

[Walt Frazier]

Jul 15, 2016 18:42:48 GMT @riogho said:

Oh I see, well it's "nothing" to me because I'm not pursueing any free agents. It's not technically nothing.

So go ahead and make biased votes in the future over semantics if that's your deal Walt Frazier

I assume those who accepted your trade thought you needed the 1st to take on the salary.

Apparently, you didn't. You got it for nothing.

And, I have just shown I vote consistently on these issues. I'm one of the most consistent with this over the years too, I protect 1st round picks, maybe too much, I dunno, but I'd say my record is pretty consistent on that overall.

[Walt Frazier]

Honestly Adam you are a great example for JR.

JR, pay attention!

Adam did not value his cap space, but he understands the value of cap space. So, he made someone pay him to use his cap space.

JR, you do not value draft picks, but you DON'T understand the value of draft picks. So, you give your picks away for free.

Big difference.

[Deleted]

Jul 15, 2016 20:08:06 GMT Walt Frazier said:

Honestly Adam you are a great example for JR.

JR, pay attention!

Adam did not value his cap space, but he understands the value of cap space. So, he made someone pay him to use his cap space.

JR, you do not value draft picks, but you DON'T understand the value of draft picks. So, you give your picks away for free.

Big difference.

I was going to make a post saying this earlier but thought it was too rude. I wouldn't use myself as an example, but JR come on just because the draft pick is worthless to you doesn't mean you need to sell it for 0.

[Allen Iverson]

Accept.

#FreeJR

[Walt Frazier]

Jul 15, 2016 21:47:29 GMT Allen Iverson said:

Accept.

#FreeJR

You spelled #killthespurs wrong

[Vlade Divac]

I would like this trade in 2006, JR, but not 2016.

[Jeremiah Hill]

Jul 15, 2016 13:14:13 GMT JR Wiles said:

Sixers Trade:
79 Manu Ginobili $6,838,155
79 Jamal Crawford $8,205,186
71 Lavoy Allen $750,000
75 Wesley Johnson $1,353,938 $1,502,871
Total: $17,147,279

Spurs Trade:
78 Gerald Green $3,500,000
75 Kevin Martin $6,833,275
75 Thabo Sefolosha $4,104,725
1st 2020#1 SA
Total: $14,438,000

The Spurs accept this trade. We bring in two guys that are proven and that will make our team that much better. Kevin is an OK player, but he is not a Manu Ginobili and you guys can't argue with that. Manu gives us the extra energy every team needs off the bench. Jamal is the best non starting player in the NBA in the last 10-15 years. He could have started for several teams but is the team player type of guy that wants the best for his team and will do whatever it takes. Both these guys replace role player type guys and we know this new found depth will and can take us over the top in the race to a Championship!! We give up a future pick, but in doing so we upgrade our guys, as well as add depth to our team in positions we are looking to upgrade eventually in Lavoy Allen and Wesley Johnson. As the GM for the Spurs over the past several years we have been pushed and pushed for trading picks and making certain moves. But if you look at our roster and where we stand today there is no doubt I have a plan and know what I am doing and how to make this team better long term.

Thanks

SA Management

Come on JR! Manu Ginobli will suck this year. Trust that.