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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2016 0:29:35 GMT
 Utah JazzAndrew Wiggins $4,798,900 $5,005,500 $6,311,936 for  New Orleans Pelicans11 14 17 UTA 2018 1st Rondae Hollis-Jefferson $1,672,200 $1,744,200 $2,673,859 $3,738,054
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Jun 29, 2016 0:53:10 GMT
Wow this was some hard work.
So to start off the trade I think I lose based on pure value here as 5 1st rounders is substantial for a guy who hasn't completely proven himself but putting this trade in context it makes sense for the Pelicans.
I made a promise to Hayward last off season that by the 2nd year (this year) we will be a competitive team looking towards the playoffs. This trade shows that the New Orleans Pelicans keep the promises they make to their free agents. We also have andre drummond coming up for free agency next year and we are fully committed to building a contender around him and his great talents. It's been 3 years of rebuilding for us and I'm now ready to finally cash in and take that next step.
Wiggins is young at 20, fitting our timeline, and has shown huge potential. A core of Hayward, Dre, Knight and Wiggins ain't too shabby.
I was extremely conflicted about this trade and was an inch away from backing out. That said I have tons of other assets if somehow this doesn't work out its not the end of the world.
The New Orleans Pelicans have entered a new phase of the franchise. From now on we are committed to bringing a championship to the Bay and will not rest until we do. This is the seminal moment in our history
We accept
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2016 1:05:28 GMT
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Post by Alex English on Jun 29, 2016 2:03:12 GMT
I'm going to reject this one.
Mid first round picks really aren't worth that much imo. I said this in one of the other trade threads, picks become players and most only end up being completely mediocre. Utah doesn't get a single guaranteed asset back for one of the best young players in the entire league. Let's play out this trade over the last ten drafts.
2015
11 - Myles Turner
14 - Cameron Payne
17 - Rashad Vaughn
Turner is really good, but not even close to Wiggins, Payne and Vaughn hardly add any value at all. I can personally attest to the fact that the value for Rashad Vaughn is maybe a couple 2nd round picks.
2014
11 - Doug McDermott
14 - TJ Warren
17 - James Young
Better total haul than 2015, though no one is better than Myles Turner individually. Not even close to the value of Wiggin once again.
2013
11 - Michael Carter-Williams
14 - Shabazz Muhammed
17 - Dennis Schroeder
Best haul yet, maybe even enough to make a trade for Wiggins acceptable
2012
11 - Meyers Leonard
14 - John Henson
17 - Tyler Zeller
Mostly rubbish. No one does that deal for Wiggins
2011
11 - Klay Thompson
14 - Marcus Morris
17 - Iman Shumpert
This probably gets accepted, but almost single-handedly due to Klay. Morris and Shump aren't worth too much.
2010
11 - Cole Aldrich
14 - Patrick Patterson
17 - Kevin Seraphin
Garbage. Patterson is the only even serviceable player.
2009
11 - Terrence Williams
14 - Earl Clark
17 - Jrue Holiday
Basically Jrue for Wiggins. Nobody accepts that deal.
2008
11 - Jerryd Bayless
14 - Anthony Randolph
17 - Roy Hibbert
Umm, nope.
2007
11 - Acie Law
14 - Al Thornton
17 - Sean Williams
Hilariously bad.
2006
11 - JJ Redick
14 - Ronnie Brewer
17 - Shawne Williams
So who wants to trade Wiggins for JJ Redick?
I'll be generous and give the MCW, Shabazz, Schroeder year an accept. That gives 2/10 where this trade ends up an okay deal. Some of those years end up completely destroying the future of the Utah Jazz.
That 2018 1st is really hard to judge, with Wiggins, Whiteside, Mudiay, and all the projected growth between now and this pick, I can see the Jazz making the playoffs that season. So it ain't that valuable. If this trade is accepted it become extremely valuable imo, but still doesn't guarantee anyone as good as Wiggins. So how about Utah just keeps Wiggins?
Sorry Brian, this would put your team in a great spot, but this just isn't acceptable to me.
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Jun 29, 2016 2:08:11 GMT
Alex English not gonna be the guy that goes over the whole thread defending his trade but I'll say this, if 5 1st rounders including his own, which is hugely valuable in this league isn't enough for Wiggins that what is? 7 1st rounders? 10? 30?? I'm honestly in shock this is even being debated from that side, I though it had a chance to be rejected for me
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Jun 29, 2016 2:09:30 GMT
I'm going to reject this one. Mid first round picks really aren't worth that much imo. I said this in one of the other trade threads, picks become players and most only end up being completely mediocre. Utah doesn't get a single guaranteed asset back for one of the best young players in the entire league. Let's play out this trade over the last ten drafts. 2015 11 - Myles Turner 14 - Cameron Payne 17 - Rashad Vaughn Turner is really good, but not even close to Wiggins, Payne and Vaughn hardly add any value at all. I can personally attest to the fact that the value for Rashad Vaughn is maybe a couple 2nd round picks. 2014 11 - Doug McDermott 14 - TJ Warren 17 - James Young Better total haul than 2015, though no one is better than Myles Turner individually. Not even close to the value of Wiggin once again. 2013 11 - Michael Carter-Williams 14 - Shabazz Muhammed 17 - Dennis Schroeder Best haul yet, maybe even enough to make a trade for Wiggins acceptable 2012 11 - Meyers Leonard 14 - John Henson 17 - Tyler Zeller Mostly rubbish. No one does that deal for Wiggins 2011 11 - Klay Thompson 14 - Marcus Morris 17 - Iman Shumpert This probably gets accepted, but almost single-handedly due to Klay. Morris and Shump aren't worth too much. 2010 11 - Cole Aldrich 14 - Patrick Patterson 17 - Kevin Seraphin Garbage. Patterson is the only even serviceable player. 2009 11 - Terrence Williams 14 - Earl Clark 17 - Jrue Holiday Basically Jrue for Wiggins. Nobody accepts that deal. 2008 11 - Jerryd Bayless 14 - Anthony Randolph 17 - Roy Hibbert Umm, nope. 2007 11 - Acie Law 14 - Al Thornton 17 - Sean Williams Hilariously bad. 2006 11 - JJ Redick 14 - Ronnie Brewer 17 - Shawne Williams So who wants to trade Wiggins for JJ Redick? I'll be generous and give the MCW, Shabazz, Schroeder year an accept. That gives 2/10 where this trade ends up an okay deal. Some of those years end up completely destroying the future of the Utah Jazz. That 2018 1st is really hard to judge, with Wiggins, Whiteside, Mudiay, and all the projected growth between now and this pick, I can see the Jazz making the playoffs that season. So it ain't that valuable. If this trade is accepted it become extremely valuable imo, but still doesn't guarantee anyone as good as Wiggins. So how about Utah just keeps Wiggins? Sorry Brian, this would put your team in a great spot, but this just isn't acceptable to me. RHJ and Utah 2018 1st are useless??? |
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Post by Alex English on Jun 29, 2016 2:19:50 GMT
Alex English not gonna be the guy that goes over the whole thread defending his trade but I'll say this, if 5 1st rounders including his own, which is hugely valuable in this league isn't enough for Wiggins that what is? 7 1st rounders? 10? 30?? I'm honestly in shock this is even being debated from that side, I though it had a chance to be rejected for me I'd say getting good basketball players/prospects is required to be enough for Andrew Wiggins. First round picks do not equal good players/prospects. Most picks, especially outside the top 10, don't end up being anybody worth mentioning, as you can see from the list above. RHJ and Utah 2018 1st are useless??? I did talk about the 2018 1st. Also yea, in a trade where Andrew Wiggins is being traded, Hollis-Jefferson is kind of a footnote. Maybe others will see it differently, but to me it's just overhyped draft picks being traded for more than their worth because the draft is happening right now and we're all excited about it. People love the 11th overall pick, how many people love Meyers Leonard? |
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Jun 29, 2016 2:26:26 GMT
Getting his own pick back plus a bunch of lotto tickets is a reasonable deal IMO. Remember I gave up half my team to get my pick back from Washington and it worked out pretty well for me. Its about controlling your own destiny through the draft. I don't believe he traded his own pick (probably was the guy before him right?)
Wiggins is OK. He's going to probably get himself an allstar game or two in his career but I refuse to believe he is going to be a superstar.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jun 29, 2016 2:43:52 GMT
Getting his own pick back plus a bunch of lotto tickets is a reasonable deal IMO. Remember I gave up half my team to get my pick back from Washington and it worked out pretty well for me. Its about controlling your own destiny through the draft. I don't believe he traded his own pick (probably was the guy before him right?) Wiggins is OK. He's going to probably get himself an allstar game or two in his career but I refuse to believe he is going to be a superstar. That is an underrated aspect. I somehow wasn't connecting the 2018 1st as being Adam's actual own pick getting back. I'm still, for the record, closer to rejecting than accepting but that does make me think. Anyway, I'll try to vote tomorrow. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2016 2:57:43 GMT
Getting his own pick back plus a bunch of lotto tickets is a reasonable deal IMO. Remember I gave up half my team to get my pick back from Washington and it worked out pretty well for me. Its about controlling your own destiny through the draft. I don't believe he traded his own pick (probably was the guy before him right?) Wiggins is OK. He's going to probably get himself an allstar game or two in his career but I refuse to believe he is going to be a superstar. That is an underrated aspect. I somehow wasn't connecting the 2018 1st as being Adam's actual own pick getting back. I'm still, for the record, closer to rejecting than accepting but that does make me think. Anyway, I'll try to vote tomorrow. Pick 11 is due in 3 hours. |
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Post by Alex English on Jun 29, 2016 2:58:12 GMT
Anyway, I'll try to vote tomorrow. The 11th pick has 30 minutes left on the clock. |
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Post by Alex English on Jun 29, 2016 2:59:07 GMT
Pick 11 is due in 3 hours. 30 minutes |
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Post by Ian Noble on Jun 29, 2016 5:33:16 GMT
I think this is bad for Utah, the amount of effort I put into trying to get Wiggins from Charlotte and here he is accepting three mid-1sts as the bulk of this deal... However I am willing to accept. Ronde should not be expected to ever really dominate although I've always loved his game and felt he was just as good as his Arizona teammate Stanley Johnson. Also Utah gets their own 1st back so they have much more continuity going forwards, that's probably the biggest piece here and could be high lottery still in 2018.
Since time is of the essence i accept. Not a trade I would make if I were Utah though.
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Post by Bryan Colangelo on Jun 29, 2016 9:58:41 GMT
I accept, if Brain made this trade during the season it would be 4 first round picks and a good young rookie for Wiggins. What is also key is Utah gets there 2018 pick back which is huge.
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Post by Danny Longley on Jun 29, 2016 10:14:34 GMT
Actually willing to accept as well - of course, I'd rather have Wiggins than gamble over three mid picks and the '18, but there's juuust enough value for me to let it go.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jun 29, 2016 11:31:15 GMT
Sorry guys. I would reject this trade. Looks like it is passed but my vote is reject, just to put it out there.
Utah getting his pick back is big but the rest of the return is not enough for Wiggins.
Reject.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2016 14:30:20 GMT
Sorry guys. I would reject this trade. Looks like it is passed but my vote is reject, just to put it out there. Utah getting his pick back is big but the rest of the return is not enough for Wiggins. Reject. Yeah it might not be enough for wiggins, but you can't tank with wiggins! I've been trying to get that pick package from Brian for awhile for the #2 pick. Well, I traded 2 for wiggins so it ends up all working out in the end. Not having that 2018 pick was gonna hurt my team more than not having wiggins I think. |
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Post by James Kay on Jun 29, 2016 15:00:50 GMT
Sorry guys. I would reject this trade. Looks like it is passed but my vote is reject, just to put it out there. Utah getting his pick back is big but the rest of the return is not enough for Wiggins. Reject. Yeah it might not be enough for wiggins, but you can't tank with wiggins! I've been trying to get that pick package from Brian for awhile for the #2 pick. Well, I traded 2 for wiggins so it ends up all working out in the end. Not having that 2018 pick was gonna hurt my team more than not having wiggins I think. All part of your plan to win the 2025 championship.... lol Interesting that I would not have moved Wiggins for this package, though. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2016 15:18:00 GMT
Yeah it might not be enough for wiggins, but you can't tank with wiggins! I've been trying to get that pick package from Brian for awhile for the #2 pick. Well, I traded 2 for wiggins so it ends up all working out in the end. Not having that 2018 pick was gonna hurt my team more than not having wiggins I think. All part of your plan to win the 2025 championship.... lol Interesting that I would not have moved Wiggins for this package, though. Yep, the goal is 2025. Wiggins? Too old. |
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Post by Alex English on Jun 29, 2016 17:01:03 GMT
I think this dooms the Jazz. It makes sure they will be bad for a really long time and sets up Whiteside to leave in free agency. This trade will be looked on really poorly in a few years. But hey, that 2018 pick will be something huh? Conversely, Brian Scalabrine is the early frontrunner for 2017 Executive of the Year. Congrats. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2016 17:12:00 GMT
I think this dooms the Jazz. It makes sure they will be bad for a really long time and sets up Whiteside to leave in free agency. This trade will be looked on really poorly in a few years. But hey, that 2018 pick will be something huh? Conversely, Brian Scalabrine is the early frontrunner for 2017 Executive of the Year. Congrats. Whiteside will never leave. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2016 17:19:09 GMT
I think this dooms the Jazz. It makes sure they will be bad for a really long time and sets up Whiteside to leave in free agency. This trade will be looked on really poorly in a few years. But hey, that 2018 pick will be something huh? Conversely, Brian Scalabrine is the early frontrunner for 2017 Executive of the Year. Congrats. Also, tanking is my favorite thing. If I can't get out of being the worst team by my draft abilities, I don't wanna stop being the worst team. |
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Post by Alex English on Jun 29, 2016 17:28:40 GMT
Also, tanking is my favorite thing. If I can't get out of being the worst team by my draft abilities, I don't wanna stop being the worst team. So why not draft Brandon Ingram? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2016 17:29:22 GMT
Also, tanking is my favorite thing. If I can't get out of being the worst team by my draft abilities, I don't wanna stop being the worst team. So why not draft Brandon Ingram? I don't like him as much as I do 5 dice rolls and my top 3 pick in 2018. I also looooove RHJ. Don't worry, I'm just as happy cheering for losses as I am wins! It actually makes more sense unless you think you can win a ring! |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2016 17:33:57 GMT
Alex EnglishThank you for all the care and concern you put into your reject, though. You're a very thoughtful and valuable trade committee member.
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Post by Ian Noble on Jun 29, 2016 17:49:13 GMT
Trade passed and queued!
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