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Post by James Kay on Feb 1, 2016 3:48:18 GMT
It's been about a month and a half since the last thread. It sucks to post one so soon, but can we really justify an 84 for him right now? His defense isn't anything special. He's still a great distributor for his position, but he's so inefficient. Batum is like if Gallinari could pass a little better lol. The assists are great, but at 3.1 turnovers per game? Meh.
Current: 84
Suggested: 81
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Feb 1, 2016 4:01:40 GMT
Too soon
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Post by James Kay on Feb 1, 2016 4:04:46 GMT
Lol I think the previous thread was what was too soon |
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Feb 1, 2016 14:10:17 GMT
Keep him the same for now. 84
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Post by James Kay on Feb 1, 2016 14:19:10 GMT
He’s played in 39/47 games. He’s shooting 40% through those. He played 71 games last year. He shot 40% last year. He hasn’t been that 1 steal 1 block player in a while. Now he’s averaging over 3 turnovers a game, which makes his assists a lot less impressive. I’m sorry but 84 is absurdly high for him.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Feb 1, 2016 14:21:53 GMT
We made the vote off what he was doing at that time. If I recall he WAS shooting much better. Anyone who watches the Hornets a bunch care to elaborate on why this might be?
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Post by James Kay on Feb 1, 2016 14:30:02 GMT
We made the vote off what he was doing at that time. If I recall he WAS shooting much better. Anyone who watches the Hornets a bunch care to elaborate on why this might be? Yeah, I mean, I voted 84 for him back in the last change because I like Batum and think he’s a truly multi-faceted player but, looking back, I just can’t see how we’re justifying rating someone shooting 40% through 110 games (this season and last) an 84 especially if his turnovers are now above 3. He used to average a block and a steal in years past and I think that ability was kinda grandfathered in but he just doesn’t seem like that player anymore. Maybe I’m wrong though. I know Adam watches a lot of Hornets games maybe he can give a better perspective of his performance. |
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Feb 1, 2016 15:08:40 GMT
he's been injured dumbass Now this makes me want to give him a 70 |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2016 16:38:07 GMT
This is the dumbest thread I've ever seen.
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Post by James Kay on Feb 1, 2016 17:06:57 GMT
This is the dumbest thread I've ever seen. Care to elaborate oh wise one? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2016 17:30:31 GMT
He's had like 9 bad games (all in january) where the entire rest of the team was injured and he was injured for at least 5 of them himself with a toe.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2016 17:32:36 GMT
Like he's been bad the last 5 games he has played, been shooting like 20%. But each time its because he is still hurt and coming back too early, the hornets are right on the edge of making the playoffs and batum keeps thinking he can play through the injury, but he has just shown he is still hurt. He's gone out and in with the same problem on and off since january started.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2016 17:36:39 GMT
Take a look at his gamelog for a second: espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/3416/nicolas-batumWhich Batum do you think is the real Batum? The one averaging 16-7-6 when healthy? or the one averaging 9-6-5 on 31% shooting since he originally injured his toe? Case dismissed. Don't downgrade a guy for getting a toe injury. It would fuck up Steph Curry's shot too. |
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Post by James Kay on Feb 1, 2016 17:47:21 GMT
Take a look at his gamelog for a second: espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/3416/nicolas-batumWhich Batum do you think is the real Batum? The one averaging 16-7-6 when healthy? or the one averaging 9-6-5 on 31% shooting since he originally injured his toe? Case dismissed. Don't downgrade a guy for getting a toe injury. It would fuck up Steph Curry's shot too. Look, in Batum’s first 30 games – He’s averaging 16.3 points, 6.5 boards, 5.2 assists, 1.1 steals, and 3.1 turnovers on 42% shooting. This is before this toe injury, no? 42% FG and 3.1 turnovers are not great, and in my opinion, not befitting of an 84 rated player. All I’m saying is this: Since the start of the 2014-2015 season, Batum has played in 110/129 games. Through that period, he’s shot 40% from the field. Best case scenario – he’s perennially injured and playing through injuries, and all these injuries are making his shot worse. In any case, how do we handle this? 110/129 games seems like a really substantial sample size – how can we determine which is the real Batum. Does the sim have to reflect this hypothetically healthy Batum? Or should it reflect his performance over the past 110 games? As a side note, and not my main point here, this probably ties into what Walt said in the Brook Lopez thread – does Batum get an 84 simply because he needs points in passing? I don’t get it. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2016 17:55:55 GMT
He is very very skilled though in almost all areas, and a great athelete. For players with a large variety in skills you need more skill points to accurately represent them in the simulation, even if you "wouldn't take them" over a lower rated player that was elite at fewer things.
It's why players like Draymond Green need to be rated almost as high as someone like James Harden, because Harden or Melo only do like a couple things at a very elite level... thats like 200 points. With someone like Batum or Dray Green you need you have like all the categories at an 80 because they are just great at everything.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2016 17:58:11 GMT
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Post by James Kay on Feb 1, 2016 18:26:21 GMT
He is very very skilled though in almost all areas, and a great athelete. For players with a large variety in skills you need more skill points to accurately represent them in the simulation, even if you "wouldn't take them" over a lower rated player that was elite at fewer things. It's why players like Draymond Green need to be rated almost as high as someone like James Harden, because Harden or Melo only do like a couple things at a very elite level... thats like 200 points. With someone like Batum or Dray Green you need you have like all the categories at an 80 because they are just great at everything. Yeah, he is well rounded, but is it enough to push to an 84? Do his contributions in assisting and rebounding push him to an 84, overcoming his deficits in shooting and turnovers? Let’s say Batum was averaging 15 points, 4 rebounds, 2.5 assists and 1.5 steals, 1.5 turnovers, on 43% shooting and average defense. What do we rate that guy? Well, we rate him like a 76,77. At least that’s what we rated KCP. So Batum is an 84. A difference of 7-8 points because he gets: 2 more rebounds, 2.5 more assists, .8 less steals, 1.6 more turnovers, worse shooting. I can only see three categories that Batum would get an edge – Ball handling, passing, and D/O rebounding and maybe offensive awareness. So do 2.5 more assists and 2 rebounds earn you 8 points? There are also other categories that KCP would be ahead like physical categories and stealing And I’m not really making this personal, because I put up like a ton of threads yesterday, but im most familiar with kcps stats and he’s a fair comparison since he’s basically like batum without the passing. Other example – Oladipo – averaging VERY similar stats. Yet he’s rated 5 points lower. I get that Batum is a good passer and play-maker for his position. But do those skills give him an 84? |
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Post by James Kay on Feb 1, 2016 20:30:46 GMT
Are we continuing this or what hahaha |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2016 4:59:23 GMT
1 assist away from a 26-10-10 triple double
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Charlotte Hornets
New Orleans Pelicans
