Pistons and Celtics

[Ian Noble]

Celtics receive:
71 - Vernon Macklin - $473,604
70 - Johan Petro - $3,250,000 - $3,500,000
Detroit 2014 1st Rounder

(15 players after trade)

Total - $3,723,604


Pistons receive
74 - Keyon Dooling - $2,246,400
71 - Greg Stiemsma - $762,195

(15 players after trade)

Total - $3,008,595


Basically I'm doing this trade because I think it strengthens my team in the long run. I take on an extra $3.5m next year but I'm not sold on the strength of the free agent class and hope to even re-sign Garnett/Allen for another year, although my decision will be influenced by what happens in real life in the off season this year.

[Walt Frazier]

I realize Detroit probably is only doing this to clear the 3,500,000 next season...right? He doesn't get any long-term value here, all the players involved are meh, he gives up a 1st to clear 3.5 million next season?

I'll await his reasoning, I don't like this, 1st rounder being treated pretty lightly IMO.

[Joe Dumars]

Pistons Accept.

I initially proposed this trade to get Stiemsma, a player that I like a lot, and will hope to re-sign next year to a decent, long term deal. I also get a solid backup PG in Dooling, who has played well off the bench all season for the Celts. Plus I get to shed 3,500,000 next year, which is necessary for me, with Biedrins contract now.

I realize some may think that Im undervaluing a 1st rounder here, but I look at it as just using that draft pick on a young player with tons of promise that I know I can get now, being Stiemsma.

[Andrei Kirilenko]

ehh I'll accept. That extra $3.5 mil Boston is taking on next year might be worth the 1st rounder in itself

[Walt Frazier]

Stiemsma is 27 in September, and went undrafted in 2008.

Dude isn't so young...not really young enough for me to justify moving a pick for him when he hasn't really established himself at all yet. That 3.5 million isn't worth a 1st rounder, and that's the only thing I see moving that has any real value (positive or negative) other than the 1st.

I'm going to have to reject.

[Joe Dumars]

you do realize that teams sell first round draft picks for less than 3.5 million dollars right? The Suns are notorious for selling their picks for cash. I even get a prospect back, and a good backup guard.

[Danny Longley]

@detroit, the Suns sold picks that turned into Stephen Jackson, Luol Deng, Nate Robinson , Marcin Gortat (who ironically came back), Rajon Rondo and Rudy Fernandez. Not to say that your pick will surely lock in someone like them, but do you really want to be that guy?

[Andrei Kirilenko]

After reading the comments, I'm actually going to change my vote to a reject as well. Detroit is gaining around $6 million in salary for next season in his trade with GSW. Even if he dumps Petro here, he is still almost over the cap for next year already.

Stiensma hasn't really done anything in the NBA and is on a 1 year contract anyway. You're gonna need to clear even more cap room just to re-sign him.

Therefore, I reject as well.

[Joe Dumars]

His is ridiculous. I thought the trade committees job was to stop teams from destroying heir franchise. I realize that I give up a first rounder here,but I get 3.5 mil off the books next year. And while that may not be enough to resign stiemsma, who wont go for more than the mle, which I still have, it does set me up for a better offseason and future. If you guys really don't think that a core of Monroe, favors and knight wont be able to playoffs in 2 years then I seriously question your Nba and basketball judgement

[Walt Frazier]

Your 3-man core is good, but you still have a lot of work to do to be a sure-fire playoff team.

Stop calling a 26-year old a prospect btw, lol.

I just think a 1st is worth more than taking Petro's 3.5 mil off the books, and that's the only value you are getting. I seriously question YOUR NBA and basketball judgement for dealing it away so easily before you are really one of the upper echelon teams.

Sorry Joe.

[Joe Dumars]

Please tell me how this cripples my team's future, because thats really the only reason the trade committee should veto a trade. Its a single first round pick in 2 years. In the mean time I have loads of young talent on my roster, 2 first rounders this year, and another one next year. By 2014, my team will be young enough as it is.

Let me run this team how I want to run it. This does not put a future GM, who probably wont exist because I plan to stay with the league until the end, in a bad position. Its not like im giving away the first. I get talent back for this year, and some, I agree not a lot, cap relief this offseason. This is not a rejectable trade. You set a ridiculous precedent if you dont let a trade like this through. Trades are what keep sim leagues alive.

[Walt Frazier]

Most real life GMs who aren't named Isaiah Thomas...or who aren't perennial contenders already, do NOT sell their 1sts to get a mediocre player's 3.5 million off their books for just one season in the future.

BTW there is a difference between what the Lakers usually do by selling their 1st for 3 million or whatever, or what the Suns have done as well...vs. trading your 1st to get out of paying 3.5 million on a player.

I like your core man, but you are not guaranteed to be a top 5-10 team...which means you could definitely be in the lotto still...which I dunno, I just don't see how we can say that it is realistic to move a 1st rounder for so little.

That's the value I've been trying to set on 1st rounders. It's just too unrealistic that this would happen for me, seems way too low a value placed on a 1st, no matter how far away it is.

[Ian Noble]

Still waiting on Aubrey and Isiah!

[Walt Frazier]

I thought 2 votes was all that was needed when a CM is involved in the trade?

Myself and Utah both reject.

[Ian Noble]

I was just hoping the rest of the Trade Committee would recognise a rip off trade when they saw one ;D Kinda glad this got rejected by two of you at least!

Trade rejected.

[Joe Dumars]

But if 2 trade committee members accept a trade, then its accepted. There are still 2 votes out there, and while it looks slim that they will accept, this trade should still not be rejected yet.

The way you guys voted on this trade though makes it seem like the trade committee just runs all teams. If you guys value someone or a draft pick a certain way does not mean thats how I value it. If this is just going to be a league where 5 people set the value for everyone else and no one can trade outside of that value, then I guess I'll have to leave, because that doesnt sound like fun at all. Just my opinion.

[Lucas Lutkus]

Jun 17, 2012 21:38:50 GMT Joe Dumars said:

The way you guys voted on this trade though makes it seem like the trade committee just runs all teams. If you guys value someone or a draft pick a certain way does not mean thats how I value it.

Perfect. I feel exactly like that a lot of times, i know that the TC has a hard job to do, but there are trades that aren't going to ruin a franchise and they reject it.

[Andrei Kirilenko]

There have been 6 trades rejected through voting and 66 trades approved. So basically 1 out of every 12 trades has been rejected. I don't think that's too unreasonable.

[Dan Gilbert]

The pistons have been involved in at least 2 of them though, lol

[Lucas Lutkus]

Jun 17, 2012 23:01:05 GMT Andrei Kirilenko said:

There have been 6 trades rejected through voting and 66 trades approved. So basically 1 out of every 12 trades has been rejected. I don't think that's too unreasonable.

that's not the point man...

Even on the few rejected trades, there are trades where the TC feels like if they're making the trade so they accept and reject based on what would they do if it's them trading, but it's not like that, you guys should accept or reject the trade if the trade is too unreal or if they're going to ruin a team's future, we've seem trades a lot worse than that in real life and i have got trade offers rejected in PMs with the other GM saying: 'i accept, but the TC will not approve this.' It's hard sometimes to keep waiting a trade to be accepted seeing that this trade isn't going to ruin you or the other team's future.

[Ian Noble]

I think Josh makes a pretty damn good point. If anything I think we're too easy on trades.