Bobcats - Hornets

[Lucas Lutkus]

This deal deppends on the 3-way deal being accepted and the Bobcats-Rockets deal being accepted too, but i think that now that the things have been solved, it's all okay and soon the trades are going to be voted, so here we go:

Charlotte Bobcats trade:
80 Marcus Camby $12,866,332 (coming from the Houston Rockets trade)
71 Aaron Gray $2,500,000
Total: $15,366,332 (*1,25 = $19,207,915)

for

New Orleans Hornets trade:
77 Chris Kaman $12,700,000
72 Marco Belinelli $3,377,604
70 Jerome Dyson $68,749
NO 2014 1st
Total: $16,146,353

I accept, we give Marcus Camby, an excellent center who hasn't even debuted in our team and Aaron Gray who is a backup center to get Chris Kaman, a player that i like a lot when healthy and a 2014 1st rounder. Belinelli can contribute coming from the bench and Dyson, well Dyson can be a Lin, who knows? haha

Hope that these 3 trades are accepted soon, everyone is really going to #FEARTHEBOBCAT after that!

[Jackie Moon]

Hornets accept this deal. Camby is the better player, but I feel like he would be more likely to resign here in NO than Kaman is. Camby is still a top 5 defensive center in the league and a player I feel like will garner much more attention if I decide to trade him. Bellinelli is shipped to open up the back-up SG role for Xavier Henry so we can see what he has before we decide to ship him or not. The 2014 pick is too far away to worry about. I plan on us being title contenders by then.

This deal gives my line-up a little more flexibility

PG- Conley
SG- Harden
SF- Ariza
PF- Okafor
C- Camby

Pretty good defensive lineup in my eyes. Always thought Landry would be better off the bench.

[Andrei Kirilenko]

Accept

[Aubrey Graham]

I accept

[Lucas Lutkus]

1 accept left !

[Walt Frazier]

How many 2014 1sts is Charlotte going to have now?

Once again, not EVERY team can actually be a contender by then (by 2013 really, since 2014 draft held before the season of course)...and yet, it seems like Charlotte has found like 15 teams that think they're winning the championship that year so they are selling 2014 1sts for pennies on the dollar.

I think Camby for Kaman is fine, I'd accept it. Honestly, I'd rather have the Kaman side, he's a lot younger and even though injury prone, he's likely to be playing in the league for a lot longer, and at a higher level, than Camby is. The other players do nothing to this deal, all expire, none are really worth much at all, just cancel each other out / have no value worth mentioning.

Why is there a 1st in here?

[Rubén Magnano]

Jun 9, 2012 4:03:51 GMT Walt Frazier said:

How many 2014 1sts is Charlotte going to have now?

Once again, not EVERY team can actually be a contender by then (by 2013 really, since 2014 draft held before the season of course)...and yet, it seems like Charlotte has found like 15 teams that think they're winning the championship that year so they are selling 2014 1sts for pennies on the dollar.

This is the 5th 2014 1st. There are 30 teams in the league.

I think Camby for Kaman is fine, I'd accept it. Honestly, I'd rather have the Kaman side, he's a lot younger and even though injury prone, he's likely to be playing in the league for a lot longer, and at a higher level, than Camby is. The other players do nothing to this deal, all expire, none are really worth much at all, just cancel each other out / have no value worth mentioning.

Why is there a 1st in here?

There is a 1st because both Kaman and Camby are unrestricted FAs next season and we agreed (Bobcats and Hornets) that Camby adds much more to the table this season than Kaman. Kaman is a good center but Camby is much more of a glue player (one of the best defensive players in the game) and he has 3 more points of rating than Kamam (3 points is not much going from 70 to 73 but from 77 to 80 it is much).

Hornets wants to make the playoffs and even though, they had a low start season is still young and with their new lineup they are solid. They have a very good defensive starting 5 with Harden leading the offense. Defense wins games.

Sure, Hornets lose value in the future but it is their choice not to suck this season.

[Walt Frazier]

I consider part of my job, part of the reason we have a TC, is looking out for the future of the health of the league, watching out for trades like this more or less.

I just see minimal value difference right now, and no need for a 1st rounder to be put in this trade.

You've got 2 accepts still, just need one of the remaining two to go with you...but I'm not changing mine.

BTW, thanks for letting me know there are 30 teams in the league smartass.

[Jackie Moon]

I see what you are saying, but crazier trades IRL have happened.

Mo Williams for Baron Davis and what turned out to be Kyrie Irving lol

[Lucas Lutkus]

Hornets may have started up losing a lot, but they did a few trades and they seem to be a good team in a time where a lot of teams are rebuilding or trading a lot their pieces. Hornets is now a solid squad that wins a lot having the defensive presence of Camby with them.

As Jackie said, both are FAs next season so age doesn't really matter, Camby brings so much more to the table right now, he's more athletic, a better defensive player and overall better player than Kaman is.

There's no rule about getting a lot of picks, and i know that it's part of the TC job to avoid teams destroying their future, but is a 1st round pick really that important?

Let's see in the best draft of the XXI century, we'd 30 1st round picks, we'd LeBron, Melo and Wade, but we still had:

Darko Milicic, Michael Sweetney, Jarvis Hayes, Marcus Banks, Reece Graines, Troy Bell, Zarko Cabarkapa, Zoran Planinić, Dahntay Jones, Ndudi Ebi and Maciej Lampe.

They were all 1st round picks... Hornets is trading a bet of drafting a good player or the next Ndubi Ebi in trade of instant improvement in his team. For me, there's no problem with it.

[Deleted]

Jun 9, 2012 4:27:13 GMT Walt Frazier said:

BTW, thanks for letting me know there are 30 teams in the league smartass.

LMFAO!

[Walt Frazier]

Of course not, you get arguably a better real life option and you get a 1st...no problem with it there!

I'll say again, once the stockwatch gets going, anyone could put up a couple posts on raising players, but also dropping players' ratings. Camby could be discussed to drop to a 76/77. Maybe Kaman should go down too, I haven't really looked at them.

My point there is, I don't vote based on ratings. It's not the way we value things in this league, or at least the way I read things, we value on real-life. It's my opinion that IRL, Camby is, at most, equal to Kaman, if not worth less than Kaman. The 1st is just thrown in for free. I'm not comfortable with 1sts being treated that way, therefore, I reject.

Btw, you can't just pick bad 1st round picks, then say "hey, 1st round picks aren't worth anything!" Rondo was like the 21st pick, he's easily a top 50 player now (that's being conservative). Guess who else were 1st round picks? LeBron James. Kobe Bryant. Andrew Bynum. Dwayne Wade.

Goodness! Now that I read those names, 1sts should be valued as superstars!!!!!

That was sarcasm...Any pick has tricky value, but the fact is, a 1st rounder shouldn't be treated as a throw-in.

That's my opinion, the end on this for me. Any time I see 1sts thrown in for free (IMO), I'm rejecting.

[Walt Frazier]

Jun 9, 2012 4:34:30 GMT Lucas Lutkus said:

and i know that it's part of the TC job to avoid teams destroying their future, but is a 1st round pick really that important?

I can't believe this was actually said.

Are you for real?

Maybe as a Knicks fan for the past 20 years I'm a little sensitive to teams trading away 1sts, but holy crap man.

1sts ARE a team's future, or at least a light at the end of the tunnel, or a chance to strike it big some year. Maybe Hornets don't make the playoffs in 2013 season. Then their pick is lotto bound. Maybe it hits the jackpot! Maybe there is just a solid draft class and he traded away a really nice FUTURE part of his team, for absolutely nothing.

Makes no sense to me.

I really can't believe you said that lol, mind-blowing to me.

[Walt Frazier]

BTW I have zero problem with you having like 27 1st round picks in one draft year.

It's just that if you get them for free, It's not ok.

[Lucas Lutkus]

Jun 9, 2012 4:49:36 GMT Walt Frazier said:

Jun 9, 2012 4:34:30 GMT Lucas Lutkus said:

and i know that it's part of the TC job to avoid teams destroying their future, but is a 1st round pick really that important?

I can't believe this was actually said.

Are you for real?

Maybe as a Knicks fan for the past 20 years I'm a little sensitive to teams trading away 1sts, but holy crap man.

1sts ARE a team's future, or at least a light at the end of the tunnel, or a chance to strike it big some year. Maybe Hornets don't make the playoffs in 2013 season. Then their pick is lotto bound. Maybe it hits the jackpot! Maybe there is just a solid draft class and he traded away a really nice FUTURE part of his team, for absolutely nothing.

Makes no sense to me.

I really can't believe you said that lol, mind-blowing to me.

Sorry, i expressed myself wrong.

What i meant was, is a distant draft pick going to destroy a team's franchise future?

Maybe he traded away a nice pick, maybe he traded away a bust. It's a shot he's going to take.

Camby is a better player than Kaman, this is a fact. It's not something like Marcus Camby and Dexter Pittman, but he's still better.

The point isn't their overall, but what Hornets is looking as a center: a defensive leader. Chris Kaman isn't a defensive leader, Marcus Camby is.

Hornets wants a defensive center and that's what we're going to give him. Kaman is a good offensive center, but he has low basketball IQ. In other hand, Camby is an outstanding shot blocker with an excellent low-post defense and good rebounding skills.

In defensive aspects, Camby stands out as one of the best centers in the game, Kaman not.

Hornets win all they want here by giving away an injury-prone center and a 2014 1st round pick.

[Deleted]

As the owner of NOH's 2013 1st, I want this trade passed! In fact, I am going to steal an idea from the Democrats in congress and deem this trade passed. If you want to know exactly how I did it, please Google "The Slaughter Rule."

[Rubén Magnano]

dynasty5ive.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=acceptedtrades&action=display&thread=535

Anyone seemed to care about 2014 1sts 10 days ago. In that trade, Mavericks not only got a 2014 1st but also got rid of Joel Anthony's big contract. Spurs is going all the way this season so they probably will need that 1st... Moreover, it is fair to say Spurs didn't get better with that trade for this season.

[Ian Noble]

I think that, given this deal is between two of the league's weakest teams it should be scrutinized quite closely and I think Walt is correct to reject based on the inclusion of the 1st Rounder.

Obviously I think the deal is great for Charlotte, Kaman's more valuable than Camby and may re-sign and the 1st keeps helping their future - you guys have got the right idea imho. If New Orleans were not a team that should be holding on to their prospects for dear life I would accept, but as it stands they're one of the bottom 5 teams in the league and shouldn't be trading away a 1st Rounder for a 1 year loan of a near-retirement center.

I reject.

Still looking to hear from Indy's Assistant for the deciding vote.

[Deleted]

Jun 9, 2012 12:08:00 GMT Ian Noble said:

I think that, given this deal is between two of the league's weakest teams it should be scrutinized quite closely and I think Walt is correct to reject based on the inclusion of the 1st Rounder.

Obviously I think the deal is great for Charlotte, Kaman's more valuable than Camby and may re-sign and the 1st keeps helping their future - you guys have got the right idea imho. If New Orleans were not a team that should be holding on to their prospects for dear life I would accept, but as it stands they're one of the bottom 5 teams in the league and shouldn't be trading away a 1st Rounder for a 1 year loan of a near-retirement center.

I reject.

Still looking to hear from Indy's Assistant for the deciding vote.

I'd also like to add that Marco B. is not a scrub either.

[Jackie Moon]

I will respect the trade committees decision, no matter what it is.

But lets please stop acting like I am incompetent GM while we discuss this trade. Just because I happen to control the Hornets, who were the last team left when I signed up, doesnt mean I dont know what I am doing. The Hornets stand in a much better position now, then when I signed up. Imagine what I can do in two FULL seasons worth w/ free agency.

[Ian Noble]

Yeah I think you've done good things so far, Jackie. Landing James Harden was an amazing move. I just think this trade is not so good.

[Jackie Moon]

Jun 9, 2012 17:25:19 GMT Ian Noble said:

Yeah I think you've done good things so far, Jackie. Landing James Harden was an amazing move. I just think this trade is not so good.

Completely understand and respect your opinion.

Can we get the last vote on this we need so I know where my team stands on the trade negotiations side with other teams?

[Andrei Kirilenko]

Here's my opinion on the trade, take it for what it's worth.


If we step back and look at all the players involved, and if I'm honest with myself, I come to 2 basic conclusions: all of these players suck, and they all have expiring contracts. The only person you could possibly make an argument for having any real future value is Chris Kaman, but Anthony Davis is likely going to be in New Orleans soon, so Kaman's future is really up in the air. Marcus Camby is old and close to retirement. At the end of the day though, they both have expiring contracts and are rated similarly, so who cares?

Aaron Gray sucks. Marco Bellinelli sucks. I have no idea who Jerome Dyson is. And then there's the almighty 2014 1st rounder.

If I am honest again, which I will be, I couldn't care less if everyone trades his 1st rounders away. I've always believed, and still do, that a pick is only good for trade value. It's always worth more BEFORE the actual draft happens. The 7th overall pick sounds great. Bismack Biyombo sounds miserable. Unless you end up striking gold with the VERY TOP pick, then a draft choice is pretty much worthless. Even if your pick does end up panning out, it's going to be a couple years before he actually becomes as quality as the guy you traded for the pick. Who wants to wait around that long in an Internet sim league?

At the end of the day, this trade really isn't going to matter. It's a group of sucky players for another group of sucky players and a pick. Again, I'll be honest- the value of what NO is giving up is more than the value of what Charlotte is giving up, but solely because of this artificial bullshit value we have decided to attribute to a future draft in which 95% of the league couldn't tell you who is supposed to go number 1. Would I do this trade if I was New Orleans? No. But if he thinks that his sucky players are slightly less sucky than Charlotte's sucky players, I don't think I have the right to stop him.

I still accept.

[Jackie Moon]

Thanks for the explanation Indy. So far we have...

Indy Assistant - Accept
Chi - Accept
Minny - Reject
Boston - Reject

Who is the other trade committee member? I'm to the point where I dont care if this is passed or not, but would ultimately like a decision.

[Deleted]

I think it passed.....

[Danny Longley]

I think Ian meant Miami's vote. Indy Asst actually voted even before the explanation.

[Lucas Lutkus]

Isiah to save the world!

#SAVEUSISIAH

[Ian Noble]

I've messaged Isiah to give his verdict.

[Otis Smith]

Is Miami ever going to approve or decline this trade?

[JP Inawat]

In limbo..