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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Apr 30, 2015 10:21:40 GMT
Playoff injuries SHOULD NOT count in the D5 Regular Season or Playoffs. This is incredibly unbalanced and is harmful to the league in general.
Here is why. Only half of the players are in the real life playoffs. This gives an absurd advantage to teams primarily comprised of players that are not in the playoffs.
Examples of players who aren't in the playoffs:
Westbrook, Luol Deng, Al Jefferson, Mbah Mutay, Ty Lawson, Cousins, Drummond, along with every player from every team that has so far been eliminated from the playoffs.
Should we take Rondo from the Mavericks because of Rondo's "back injury".
All of those players are eliminated from the chance at being injured. This means that these teams have an advantage.
Injuries are supposed to add a bit of realism and spice to D5 but the way our season is a month behind the real season but the way the playoffs are constructed it is NOT fair to D5 GMs to count real life playoffs injuries in our league.
Some hypotheticals:
Steph Curry turns an ankle and the Warriors lose in the next round. Are we going to take Steph from Chris Mullen for the rest of our season?
James Harden gets Ron Artested again and the Rockets lose next round, are we taking harden from Alex?
Blake trips and falls and misses the last 5 minutes of the Spurs series and they lose. We taking him away?
I was gonna do a Lebron one but that's bad mojo cause I'm a Cavs fan.
The simple fact of the matter is that season ending ACL tears and a few random 6-10 week injuries is what is supposed to add variety to our season and give people a reason to switch around their depth charts and add more importance to team depth.
The issue with Jrue Holiday is an issue and we need to pay more attention next season and say alright this guy has missed 20 games so far this year maybe we need to take him out in D5 for a few weeks just to be fair. But you don't do that right before the damn playoffs.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Apr 30, 2015 10:29:39 GMT
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Post by Ian Noble on Apr 30, 2015 10:34:49 GMT
Part of me likes this solution because it's very easy to administrate: just don't count any injuries that happen once the NBA Playoffs start, that way we also eliminate the troublesome matter of end-of-season surgeries that players have also.
On the other hand Kevin Love really should be on the IR.
But this is so easy for me, I'm tempted to go for it.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Apr 30, 2015 10:40:34 GMT
Its just so knit picky at the end of the season when people get shut down just because, they have shut Cousins down several times at the ends of seasons just because they don't want him to get hurt in a useless last 4-5 games. They did the same thing with Kyrie last year or the year before that if I remember right.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Apr 30, 2015 10:41:56 GMT
Like what about Jae Crowders leg? He limped off the court the last game and didn't come back. We have no idea what that injury is and his expected return. What if he was an important 8th man for me and I was a playoff team. I mean I've almost traded him to a few playoff teams already.
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Post by Jay Z on Apr 30, 2015 11:39:54 GMT
i agree with 99% of this premise, no injuries in the playoffs, but i'd like the idea of certain situations (injuries) that would pull a player out of the playoffs.
I think the most glaring one would be Kobe Bryant, if the D5 Lakers were in the playoff picture, should Magic get a 86 Kobe Bryant who wouldn't be basketball ready for a few more months?
It seemed doubtful at the beginning of the year (as far as i remember), that Paul George was going to play this season, if the early returned hadn't happened, do the Nuggets get George back?
i'd like to keep the more seriously injured players out (i.e. those who've missed a fat chunk of the season going into the playoffs, who wont be ready for the first round). Something that would pull Kobe, but not effect Cousins availability in the playoffs.
And as Ian mentioned, I'd like to see something that would pull Love out of our playoffs due to the severity of the injury. If the regular season needs a month of injury time, then a playoff injury should require something like a 3 month return date. get the Kevin Love's out of the playoffs, but spare someone like Mike Conley (no timetable set as far as i can find).
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Larry Bird
Indiana Pacers
Starter
Posts: 1,672
Mar 5, 2024 13:29:26 GMT
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Post by Larry Bird on Apr 30, 2015 11:44:48 GMT
I just think they should serve their time. An equal amount of time they sit out in real life. We need to have a page that lists each play and the length they were out. If it runs into our playoffs, so be it. Once playoffs begin the injuries are turned off. A player can't be hurt in the playoffs, but can miss playoff games due to unaccounted for time in the regular season.
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Magic Johnson
Former Lakers GM
Sophomore
Posts: 458
Feb 27, 2024 20:39:01 GMT
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Post by Magic Johnson on Apr 30, 2015 14:29:59 GMT
You can't simulate everything like real life, there are some things that are just better off left alone.
Either go all the way or leave some things out that are too straining or impeding upon the most important task (which is simming).
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Apr 30, 2015 14:45:52 GMT
I don't mean that all players come back into the picture during the playoffs. I just meant that injuries that occur in the real life playoffs don't affect D5.
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Post by JR on Apr 30, 2015 14:58:46 GMT
Playoff Injuries- Any player injured and out for the remainder of the season should be out in D5 as well. If a player gets injured and may return of course not. Not placing players on the IR that are in the playoffs is one thing...but getting injured while playing and out for the season is different. Those player's that are out of the playoffs and are getting surgery, etc should not be placed on the IR. But if you have already placed guys like Nick Young on the IR for it already for several games, you should do it for the rest as well. To be fair! Love should def be placed on the IR.
But if Holiday isn't placed on the IR..why should anyone be? Parsons was injured and done for the season.. He should be on the IR(out for the season)..just like Kevin Love.
And Magic Holiday was placed on IR very late.. Not sure why he never sat out at least the games he missed IRL...but he was taken off the IR...has already played tons of games...but he deserves...as well as Glenn..because he knew the situation..Holiday deserves to miss the amt of games he did IRL, even if it carries over into the playoffs...I don't think he should be out for the season unless the games carry over that far.
Players placed on the IR or who are having season ending surgeries should not be placed on the IR. Their teams season is done. They are just getting ready for next season.
There are other players as well that never made it to IR--ex: Jamal Crawford...so truly this season is already screwed up...
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Apr 30, 2015 15:11:35 GMT
Why count the PG injury then? he was injured during team USA in which only a handful NBA players participated.
The system isn't good, but it's what we implemented and we have to stick to it the entire season. The whole thing is a mess, I agree, but if anything we should be consistent to keep it fair
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
Dec 16, 2022 11:27:40 GMT
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Apr 30, 2015 17:32:32 GMT
This solution makes sense, but then you have to factor in the other side. The other side of the argument is the case in Paul George. He injured his leg during the off-season and came back in the last two weeks of the NBA. However, the delay between our schedule and the NBA has allowed him to play for a lot longer. In my opinion, you can't have it both ways. All the injuries you mentioned are minor. I have never said for minor playoff injuries to count against a whole d5 season. However, in the case of Kevin Love being out for 4-6 months, I think this has to be factored as it is the opposite side of the Paul George injury. As Ian hinted towards previously, no playoff injuries would be held against someone unless it is a significant injury, e.g. Kevin Love.
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Post by James Kay on Apr 30, 2015 17:32:40 GMT
I think we should step back and examine why we chose to implement this system. It was an attempt to further the realism of this sim-league. I don’t believe that any one is upset about the implementation of an injury system, just that it has not affected every team equally due to the ambiguity of the injury guidelines. I know everyone probably realizes this, and I’m just beating a dead horse, but I think the reasoning behind why we started this system. We want d5 to be as close to real life as possible. With that being said, I don’t believe it is very realistic that a player start 81 games IRL and then miss the rest of the d5 season. I don’t believe it is realistic that a player start even 60 games and miss the rest of the d5 season. I think that the injury system is a good thing for d5, but going overboard will kill a lot of the fun. We want our players to play as much as possible. The current injury system will only lead to players sitting out for longer than they did IRL. I think that d5 will be better if the players are allowed to play. Therefore, I think a system based around these ideas would work best. When a player misses three weeks of the IRL regular season, they are placed on IR for an exact amount of IRL regular season missed games. This three week grace period allows us to validate the severity of the injury, preclude “shutting down” injuries for non-playoff stars, and give the injury committee time to calculate the amount of games that should be missed. However, once the IRL playoffs start, any player who has been injured IRL for less than 3 months returns to action in d5. This prevents a player who missed the last 20 games IRL from missing the last 40+ games in d5, while still allowing for long-term injuries such as PG, Durant, and Bosh, just off the top of my head. All in all, I think this method would be simple enough to implement, fair if applied consistently, and non-restrictive enough to allow our players to play. I’d much rather have d5 players play too many games than too little. And in regard to the Jrue situation, I think that it should be up to Glenn. I think that he didn’t do anything wrong. And it’s weird to kinda retroactively “punish” him for a broken system, but I think that as the number 1 seed, any accomplishments from this season might be tarnished by the fact that his team was able to unfairly avoid injuries. Perhaps just having Jrue miss the rest of the regular season would be a compromise? Posting this again because I really think it's the best way to go. Jeremiah Hill I agree with the premise that injuries during the playoff should not count - because many players are not IRL in the playoffs and therefore do not have the opportunity to get hurt. BUT half the players also do not have the ability to return as well. As a personal example, Ibaka missed the playoffs, but had OKC earned the 8th seed, he may have returned . Again, different opportunities for injury based on IRL seeding. Which is why I believe come IRL playoffs, all non-major injuries, ie ACL tears, or whatever as defined as an injury lasting 3+ months, should be ignored and players returned to their teams. This way, things remain fair. Injuries will have less of an affect, but still be present. As I said in my original post, I think its better for players to play more games than less games. This would keep Kevin Love off the IR in d5, btw. I don't believe we can put players on the IR based on conjecture. We don't truly know the extent of Love's injury, so we don't know exactly how many games he wouldve missed. Which is the issue for all playoff injuries. So if we stick to a system where games missed translate exactly between the two leagues, and "turn-off" "non-major" injuries once the IRL playoffs start, I think we will have a nice balance of fairness and realism. Note - this is all a suggestion for next season. We have to more or less stick to the rules implemented at the beginning of the season.
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Post by JR on Apr 30, 2015 18:28:25 GMT
Kevin Love is having surgery and is out 4-6 months- Major Injury=IR
Back to Holiday...he needs to be on the IR..until he misses the amt of Games missed IRL..even if that's including the playoffs!
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 29, 2024 4:53:32 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2015 18:36:47 GMT
This solution makes sense, but then you have to factor in the other side. The other side of the argument is the case in Paul George. He injured his leg during the off-season and came back in the last two weeks of the NBA. However, the delay between our schedule and the NBA has allowed him to play for a lot longer. In my opinion, you can't have it both ways. All the injuries you mentioned are minor. I have never said for minor playoff injuries to count against a whole d5 season. However, in the case of Kevin Love being out for 4-6 months, I think this has to be factored as it is the opposite side of the Paul George injury. As Ian hinted towards previously, no playoff injuries would be held against someone unless it is a significant injury, e.g. Kevin Love. This is why Games missed is the only way to do it.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 29, 2024 4:53:32 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2015 18:40:18 GMT
As an aside who the hell uses CBS for anything. Really does anybody use it? Ian might just not know that CBS blows because he's from across the pond. Yeah and I suggest using something else other than CBS. Ian Noble
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Chris Mullin
Golden State Warriors
Starter
Posts: 1,303
Feb 19, 2024 21:58:28 GMT
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Post by Chris Mullin on May 1, 2015 1:48:20 GMT
My thoughts on the situation..
As previously stated the system currently in place has several flaws to it, but it is the system we have used all season. In regards to the "Jrue Holiday" situation while I definitely think its unfortunate that Holiday did not miss more games, I don't think its fair at this point to make Holiday sit out games if he was able to play IRL. The fact that there were several other guys that probably should've missed more games in the sim but did not kind of balances it out IMO. This year was our 1st year with injuries and while we definitely experienced several problems I think we're on the right track to finding a better system with all the discussion it has created.
In regards to injuries that occur IRL playoffs, I see both sides of the argument. Teams that have players still playing in the Playoffs definitely run an increased risk for injury because they're still playing. I wouldn't have any problem with once the real life playoffs begin that injuries stop, but If a guy gets hurt the last game of the season and is ruled to have what would equate to a season ending injury then they would be put on the IR here. We could also consider if a player IRL gets hurt in the playoffs and suffered what would equate to a season ending injury but played the entire season IRL then they would not go onto the IR until the playoffs started here.
Since we did not have a rule in place beforehand, I don't know if it's fair to enforce playoff injuries IRL not counting here. It would definitely benefit my team because most of my team is still playing IRL, but I wouldn't be upset if I lost someone because of this as long as every other team was running the same risk.
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Post by Charles Barkley on May 1, 2015 3:46:37 GMT
In regards to injuries that occur IRL playoffs, I see both sides of the argument. Teams that have players still playing in the Playoffs definitely run an increased risk for injury because they're still playing. I wouldn't have any problem with once the real life playoffs begin that injuries stop, but If a guy gets hurt the last game of the season and is ruled to have what would equate to a season ending injury then they would be put on the IR here. We could also consider if a player IRL gets hurt in the playoffs and suffered what would equate to a season ending injury but played the entire season IRL then they would not go onto the IR until the playoffs started here. I like what Chris says here. But first, I think some of you missed the point J was trying to make. The way I understood it, was that, we have PG's injury. And he's hurt, majorly. So he misses the time he missed in the NBA, in D5. If a player gets hurt during the playoffs or has off-season surgery, that doesn't effect the current season. However, it can still effect the following season if the player will miss time. For example, in Jeremiah's solution, I understood it as: Kevin Love will not miss any time for me this season and playoffs. However, if he misses time in the 2015-2016 season, that will effect my team; he will miss time in D5 because of it. Back to what Chris said, I think if we are going to count playoff injuries, they shouldn't go into effect until the playoffs begin. Meaning I wouldn't lose Kevin Love until the playoffs start, rather than losing him for an extra month of the season. There is a lot to consider here. I think the system needs changed for next season, and I have full faith in the Secret Council of Elders that it will be fixed next season, and that it will be better. With the way our season times with the NBA season, some teams get big advantages, i.e. PG coming back for 2 weeks and Alex gets him for 2 months. And other teams get huge disadvantages, Chris Bosh and Philly, the possible Kevin Love situation with my team, the Rockets.
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Post by Charles Barkley on May 1, 2015 4:21:30 GMT
Playoff Injuries- Any player injured and out for the remainder of the season should be out in D5 as well. If a player gets injured and may return of course not. Not placing players on the IR that are in the playoffs is one thing...but getting injured while playing and out for the season is different. Those player's that are out of the playoffs and are getting surgery, etc should not be placed on the IR. But if you have already placed guys like Nick Young on the IR for it already for several games, you should do it for the rest as well. To be fair! Love should def be placed on the IR. But if Holiday isn't placed on the IR..why should anyone be? Parsons was injured and done for the season.. He should be on the IR(out for the season)..just like Kevin Love. And Magic Holiday was placed on IR very late.. Not sure why he never sat out at least the games he missed IRL...but he was taken off the IR...has already played tons of games...but he deserves...as well as Glenn..because he knew the situation..Holiday deserves to miss the amt of games he did IRL, even if it carries over into the playoffs...I don't think he should be out for the season unless the games carry over that far. Players placed on the IR or who are having season ending surgeries should not be placed on the IR. Their teams season is done. They are just getting ready for next season. There are other players as well that never made it to IR--ex: Jamal Crawford...so truly this season is already screwed up... I think that it is stupid that you're holding the Spurs hostage by quitting since you don't like the way something is done. So what, Ian has to do the Holiday injury the way you want it to be done so that you will come back and be GM of the Spurs? You should just accept the fact that this is just a game at the end of the day; we aren't 12 years old and quitting something because you disagree with the way something is being done won't help you get your way with things. I don't understand why anyone should value your input at this point, as you aren't a member of the league anymore. That is, unless we change the things you disagree with so that it appeases you and makes you happy. Then, only then, will you come back and want to be in the league. Quit because you don't have time for it anymore, or you don't like basketball enough, or any other reason other than things aren't going your way.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 29, 2024 4:53:32 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2015 17:16:33 GMT
I don't have time to read all of this zealous debate between you guys, finals are awaitin', but I think we should get rid of injuries all together because you guys argue over it all the time, it would be less work for Ian, and most of all JR quit over. For the love of ice cream and tater tots, I just cannot imagine our league without JR.
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Post by Ian Noble on May 1, 2015 18:45:28 GMT
I don't have time to read all of this zealous debate between you guys, finals are awaitin', but I think we should get rid of injuries all together because you guys argue over it all the time, it would be less work for Ian, and most of all JR quit over. For the love of ice cream and tater tots, I just cannot imagine our league without JR. I'm leaving the Spurs closed in the hopes he comes back.
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on May 1, 2015 19:52:20 GMT
agree with Vlade, let's just put an asterisk next to the season and be done with it
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