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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Apr 20, 2015 0:34:39 GMT
His change happened last January 14. Thats three months ago so I think he has the right to be change again  Current: 90 Suggestion: 93 Numbers: 27.4 pts, 5.7 rebs, 7.0 asts, 1.9 stls, 0.7 blk 37.5% 3FG Advance: TS% - 60.5%, DWS - 4.2 WS (#10) - 16.2 (#1) PER - 26.7 (#8) Those advance stats are superb. As well as the eye test. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2015 0:37:02 GMT
93, only because his defense is pretty poor. Better than it was, but still pretty poor. He will just stand there about half the time. 93 gives room to nearly max out his offensive and physics attributes, while giving him a low defensive awareness and blocknig rating.
If he can continue to improve at defense he could be a 95.
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Apr 20, 2015 0:40:06 GMT
93, only because his defense is pretty poor. Better than it was, but still pretty poor. He will just stand there about half the time. 93 gives room to nearly max out his offensive and physics attributes, while giving him a low defensive awareness and blocknig rating. If he can continue to improve at defense he could be a 95. A DWS of 4.2 is enough proof that his defense is above average already. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2015 0:40:49 GMT
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Post by Alex English on Apr 20, 2015 0:43:16 GMT
This is what Harden should have been raised to in the first place, but since then, we bumped Westbrook to a 93 and Harden is better than Westbrook, so I'm giving him a 94 now.
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Post by Alex English on Apr 20, 2015 0:46:50 GMT
That chart is from last season. Harden is miles better this year because he's actually been motivated to play defense this year when he previously didn't care. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2015 0:49:08 GMT
That chart is from last season. Harden is miles better this year because he's actually been motivated to play defense this year when he previously didn't care. "So how does 2014-15 James Harden stack up against 2013-14 James Harden? This year his overall Diff% is -2.3. Last year, The Beard finished the season with a Diff% of -2.4. This does NOT align with the narrative. "So you're saying he's worse at Defense so far this season than he was last year?" Well no, not exactly that, either. Things start to get wonky when you look at Harden's Diff% against specific distances from the hoop. Last year Harden's best defense came against 2-point shots from further than 15 feet out in which he posted a Diff% of -1.2. Against 3's he posted the devastatingly average Diff% of -0.2. His inside defense was understandably lackluster considering his weight (225 lbs) and his height (6'5"). On shots closer than 6 feet, his Diff% was 4.9. This season his Diff% against 3-point shots is a remarkable -5.8. Against shots greater than 15 feet? -4.6. His overall Diff% is worse this year because his defense in the paint has dropped off so dramatically. He's allowing shooters within 6 feet of the hoop a 7.1 percent increase in their average and everything within 10 feet gets a 4.1 percent bump. ... Don't let the narrative fool you. James Harden was never, from a purely statistical standpoint, THAT atrocious on defense. As Daryl Morey has stated, anyone's worst 10 minutes of work from the past year would make for an embarrassing Youtube clip. Yes, this year we've definitely seen an improvement in his perimeter defense. But, to go along with that, there's been a drop off on his efforts inside. It's almost zero-sum." |
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Post by Alex English on Apr 20, 2015 0:56:42 GMT
Here are some other stats for you:
Harden's Defensive Wins has gone from 2.7 last year (57th in the league) to 4.2 (12th), and his DRating has improved from 107 (127th in the league) to 103 this season (61st).
Defense is extremely hard to measure statistically. But he's absolutely been better this year. You can just see it watching him play, he doesn't just stand around waiting for Houston to get the ball anymore.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2015 1:02:01 GMT
Here are some other stats for you: Harden's Defensive Wins has gone from 2.7 last year (57th in the league) to 4.2 (12th), and his DRating has improved from 107 (127th in the league) to 103 this season (61st). Defense is extremely hard to measure statistically. But he's absolutely been better this year. You can just see it watching him play, he doesn't just stand around waiting for Houston to get the ball anymore. I agree, my very first post says that he has improved in defense according to the Adam Collins eye test. Just throwing some analysis out there that shows where he improved, and that he in fact regressed in the paint. Just more information. On another note for Stock Watch General, I have a really hard time figuring out how to vote consistently in these things. Do I vote consistent with MY votes or do I vote consistent with the final ratings? Your argument for Westbrook is a good one, Harden is definitely better than Westbrook. But I gave Westbrook like a 90, so do I vote Harden higher than he should be because Westbrook is higher or do I stay consistent in myself? It seems to make some tough decisions, especially when players get re-rated and are re-rated so poorly (like Whiteside being a 75 and then having to give big men that are shittier than him higher ratings). When it comes right down to it, Harden just seems like a 93, if westbrook got re-rated to a 93, well thats the other idiots fault for rating him too high, if I constantly adjust my personal slider for how good a player is based on the most recent re-rating of their peers none of these ratings will come out consistent in the end... |
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Post by Alex English on Apr 20, 2015 1:06:52 GMT
Also from that article:
This definitely can fit with the narrative of him playing better defense. With the big improvements in perimeter Diff% it implies he's putting a lot more pressure on players when they're around the three point line. That improved pressure can also mean that when he does get beat he's out of position a lot more than previous years because he's overplayed them. That would lead to a worse Diff% from shots closer to the rim. Also, Dwight Howard being out most of the year can easily have something to with that too. This is really just a hypothesis though, I haven't watched enough Rockets games the last 2 years to be able to say this confidently. But I have watched enough to say in general terms that Harden is better this year on defense.
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Apr 20, 2015 2:00:58 GMT
90 just for the principle that stockwatchs shouldn't be so soon.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Apr 20, 2015 5:21:00 GMT
This is what Harden should have been raised to in the first place, but since then, we bumped Westbrook to a 93 and Harden is better than Westbrook, so I'm giving him a 94 now. Your drunk if you think Harden is better than Westbrook. |
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Apr 20, 2015 5:21:34 GMT
He's not much better now than he was in January. No change.
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Post by Alex English on Apr 20, 2015 13:52:51 GMT
Your drunk if you think Harden is better than Westbrook. No Harden is definitely better. Westbrook just fills up the stat sheet, but it costs his team, the better his stats look at the end of the night, the more likely it is OKC lost the game. Harden on the other hand actually helps the Rockets when he plays well. Thunder record when Westbrook takes at least 30 field goal attempts: 2-8 (.200) Thunder record when Westbrook takes at least 20 field goal attempts: 19-18 (.514) Thunder record when Westbrook takes less than 20 field goal attempts: 21-9 (.700) Rockets record when Harden takes at least 30 field goal attempts: 2-0 (1.000) Rockets record when Harden takes at least 20 field goal attempts: 22-7 (.759) Rockets record when Harden takes less than 20 field goal attempts: 34-18 (.654) Also this isn't just because Westbrook was taking more shots with Durant out and so that's why they were losing more. Thunder record with Durant when Westbrook takes at least 20 field goal attempts: 4-5 (.444) Thunder record with Durant when Westbrook takes less than 20 field goal attempts: 14-4 (.777) You can go back and do this shit for Westbrook's entire career. If he's scoring a lot it's probably because he's being a selfish dick and there are pretty good odds he'll cause the Thunder to lose because of it. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2015 14:00:44 GMT
Aye, Westbrooks is a MCW that can shoots. Good ol Westbrooks, the reason my lovely Pels are in the playoffs  Thank you Westbrooks for your tunnel vision. |
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Post by Ian Noble on Apr 20, 2015 15:10:33 GMT
Westbrook has become like Kobe, but nevertheless he is friggin' amazing. I feel like it's too close to call between him and Harden though, especially when I watched OKC vs HOU the other week, I feel like they should both be a 93/94.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2015 16:03:07 GMT
I concur and I would put them exactly on par. Since Alex is rebel rousing against my guy, however, I vote that Harden should a 93 and Westbrook a 94!  |
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Apr 20, 2015 17:04:20 GMT
91
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Apr 20, 2015 22:02:06 GMT
Who is helping Westbrook this season? Seriously. Oh boy he gets to kick it off to Jeremy Lamb or Perry Jones. The collective of Houston is better than the collective of OKC.
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Post by Alex English on Apr 21, 2015 0:10:39 GMT
It's not just about this season. You can go back through Westbrook's whole career. I don't have the numbers off hand and I'm not going to do it now since it's so tedious, but I've done it before and it's the same story every year. Westbrook's reputation for being selfish isn't a new thing.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Apr 21, 2015 0:49:48 GMT
It's not just about this season. You can go back through Westbrook's whole career. I don't have the numbers off hand and I'm not going to do it now since it's so tedious, but I've done it before and it's the same story every year. Westbrook's reputation for being selfish isn't a new thing. He averages more assists than most PGs though is my point. He made good strides this year in terms of working more in a team concept and then the injuries happened and he had to do everything. He basically had to be LeBron (first Cavs edition) with a worse team around him in a harder conference. |
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Post by Walt Frazier on Apr 30, 2015 15:44:55 GMT
My vote on Harden is a 93
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Post by Mike Krzyzewski on Apr 30, 2015 17:08:22 GMT
93 for me please.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on May 3, 2015 5:48:58 GMT
It's not just about this season. You can go back through Westbrook's whole career. I don't have the numbers off hand and I'm not going to do it now since it's so tedious, but I've done it before and it's the same story every year. Westbrook's reputation for being selfish isn't a new thing. I watched Harden become a non-factor in the playoffs while Westbrook went insane. So there is that too. |
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Post by Bryan Colangelo on May 8, 2015 2:36:29 GMT
93
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Post by Kareem Abdul-Jabbar on May 8, 2015 23:19:38 GMT
92 ^^
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Thank you Westbrooks for your tunnel vision.
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