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Post by Walt Frazier on Apr 5, 2015 21:39:44 GMT
Mr. Felton will sign a 3-year contract with a 4th-year Team Option with the Indiana Pacers. Year 3 will be a Player Option.
Year 1: $507,336 Year 2: $1,014,672 Year 3: $1,522,008 (PO) Year 4: $2,029,344 (TO)
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Post by Alex English on Apr 5, 2015 21:43:24 GMT
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Post by Walt Frazier on Apr 6, 2015 2:20:42 GMT
Minimum contracts also can only be offered to players rated below 70...But those were the only offers Ray received so I'm honestly not sure what to make of it. Larry is fine taking his offer down to 2 years (told me via PM) but, does he have to increase his offer in order to sign Ray in the first place? Ian NobleCould use a little help Ian. Does Larry need to increase his 1st year in order to sign Felton since he's over a 70? If he does, Ray may not be playing this season! lol
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Post by Ian Noble on Apr 6, 2015 9:23:55 GMT
Alex English, Walt FrazierI wouldn't count this as a minimum contract since it increases so much over the 4 years. The minimum contracts rule was brought in to stop the bucket loads of 4 year long minimum contracts that were the league minimum for every year of the offered contract, I suppose I could clarify that in the rules.
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Post by Alex English on Apr 6, 2015 9:44:16 GMT
This type of thing has always been done with minimum contracts though. The most popular regular season contract for our league has probably been this one:
$490,180 - $980,360 - $1,470,540
You get the player at the minimum with the largest increases and it's 3 years so you get bird rights. That is the same type of deal this one is and I thought the whole reason we killed that type of contract is to stop teams from getting bird rights for a player through no real cost. Is that type of contract legal again?
Also, if this isn't considered a minimum contract then Dallas can't make this signing since they're over the cap.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Apr 6, 2015 17:57:04 GMT
This type of thing has always been done with minimum contracts though. The most popular regular season contract for our league has probably been this one: $490,180 - $980,360 - $1,470,540 You get the player at the minimum with the largest increases and it's 3 years so you get bird rights. That is the same type of deal this one is and I thought the whole reason we killed that type of contract is to stop teams from getting bird rights for a player through no real cost. Is that type of contract legal again? Also, if this isn't considered a minimum contract then Dallas can't make this signing since they're over the cap. This is Indy, not Dallas, though I haven't even checked if Indy is also over the cap since it was a minimum beginning contract. There are a lot of ways we could go with this, I don't disagree with Alex or Ian or any point I may have made here either, but it's a confusing thing. One other reason this rule came up was just to get larger contracts (per year) on the books, which are useful in trades down the line. I know Larry is fine just offering the 1st 2 years of this contract, but to further play devil's advocate and muddle up this situation, Felton has the choice whether he will have his Bird Rights owned by the Pacers or not, since there is a PO in that 3rd year. If he'd rather play the open market at that point, he can go and do it. If he'd rather be secure he can stay there a 3rd year and increase the chances he stays in Indy beyond that. My original thought was that since the contract increases it isn't strictly a "minimum" but of course the first year IS the minimum so that's where confusion began to creep in. We could solve this particular problem by just making this a 2-year contract though, which Larry is fine with, as mentioned before.
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Post by Alex English on Apr 6, 2015 23:05:23 GMT
Not sure where I got confused and thought it was Dallas, but yea, the Pacers are over the cap too. So if this won't be considered a minimum contract then Indy can't make this signing, problem is, we've been making these types of signings for years. We could solve this particular problem by just making this a 2-year contract though, which Larry is fine with, as mentioned before. Only if the second year is also at the minimum. But only under this decision, not sure why we've changed all of a sudden though.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2015 23:37:34 GMT
If you can offer the minimum the first year and then increase it afterward to get around being at the salary cap, what's the point in having the salary cap?
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Post by Alex English on Apr 7, 2015 0:24:28 GMT
If you can offer the minimum the first year and then increase it afterward to get around being at the salary cap, what's the point in having the salary cap? You're not getting around the salary cap though. The cap is always for the current year. With free agency, incoming rookies, and the fact that the cap increases every year, you can't make a set of rules for present day signings that can properly be applied to future years.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2015 0:26:51 GMT
If you're signing a player that wouldn't of signed for just a minimum salary you got around the cap. The whole point is to make teams above the cap only be able to sign minimum players, if that isn't the point of the Then what is?
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Post by Alex English on Apr 7, 2015 2:41:04 GMT
If you're signing a player that wouldn't of signed for just a minimum salary you got around the cap. The whole point is to make teams above the cap only be able to sign minimum players, if that isn't the point of the Then what is? The list of players that would sign this contract: $507,336 - $1,014,672 But not this one: $507,336 - $507,336 Is really small. You aren't getting around anything. A minimum contract is based on the starting salary, and the yearly increase is within the rules. So both of the above contracts are minimum contracts. At what point are you avoiding the rules of the salary cap?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2015 3:27:50 GMT
If you're signing a player that wouldn't of signed for just a minimum salary you got around the cap. The whole point is to make teams above the cap only be able to sign minimum players, if that isn't the point of the Then what is? The list of players that would sign this contract: $507,336 - $1,014,672 But not this one: $507,336 - $507,336 Is really small. You aren't getting around anything. A minimum contract is based on the starting salary, and the yearly increase is within the rules. So both of the above contracts are minimum contracts. At what point are you avoiding the rules of the salary cap? I guess I'm just confused as to what a minimum contract is, is the one Felton is signing considered a minimum contract? Because that one is MUCH more lucrative than the minimum contract that you are putting forth here. And if it isn't a minimum contract, he can't offer it right, because he is over the cap?
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Post by Alex English on Apr 7, 2015 4:20:13 GMT
I guess I'm just confused as to what a minimum contract is, is the one Felton is signing considered a minimum contract? Because that one is MUCH more lucrative than the minimum contract that you are putting forth here. And if it isn't a minimum contract, he can't offer it right, because he is over the cap? Well that's the issue. In the past this contract for Felton was considered a minimum contract. For the issues you brought up, and the fact that teams can 'sneak' their way into bird rights for a player, minimum contracts were limited to 2 years. That made the max a team over the cap could offer the first contract from my previous post, which isn't significantly more lucrative than the second contract that's just the bare minimum, and you can't get bird rights anymore. So yea, this contract has to be reduced to 2 years no matter what, but also, because Indy is over the cap he can't sign Felton with this deal if it's not considered a minimum contract. But deals like this always have been considered minimums, which is why I didn't get Ian Noble's first post. If someone offered a player I'm an agent for a 2 year contract like this one then I wouldn't know if it's legal or not. I need another statement from Ian on this issue.
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Post by Sam Bowie on Apr 8, 2015 1:24:41 GMT
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Post by Ian Noble on Apr 9, 2015 12:48:24 GMT
Walt Frazier & Alex English, Larry BirdI revisited the League Minimum Contract rules and this deal is in fact illegal. We have so many intricate rules now I can't follow them myself "The maximum length of a league minimum contract is 2 years." - contract is 4 years long. "League minimum contracts can only be offered to players rated below 70." - player is over 70. I'm going to add Felton back to the Free Agents list.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Apr 9, 2015 22:12:16 GMT
So basically Larry Bird, if you want Felton, dip into your MLE.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2015 22:27:06 GMT
So basically Larry Bird, if you want Felton, dip into your MLE. He used his MLE...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2015 22:28:36 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2015 22:35:53 GMT
And thats another área of league concern. Ian cant do it all. When a signing takes place or a player is released pr picks are traded...the comittee or someone needs to post it one place so it can be updated and changed..then it can be marked correctly where it goes.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2015 22:37:46 GMT
There have been other teams that used all or part of their MLE. It needs updated..
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Post by Sam Bowie on Apr 10, 2015 0:03:36 GMT
Actually, Lamd appears to be the only player missing unless there are MLE signings not in this board.
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Post by Ian Noble on Apr 16, 2015 21:48:13 GMT
And thats another área of league concern. Ian cant do it all. When a signing takes place or a player is released pr picks are traded...the comittee or someone needs to post it one place so it can be updated and changed..then it can be marked correctly where it goes. dynasty5ive.proboards.com/thread/4857/mid-level-exception-2014-15Thanks for pointing out Doron Lamb though, JR! Missed him somehow.
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