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Post by Alex English on May 29, 2012 20:58:14 GMT
Denver Nuggets trade:
79 Tyrus Thomas - $7,305,785 - $8,000,000 - $8,694,215 - $9,388,429
76 Arron Afflalo - $7,750,000 - $7,750,000 - $7,750,000 - $7,750,000 - $7,937,500
72 D.J. Augustin - $3,236,470 - $4,385,416
Total: $18,292,255
Milwaukee Bucks trade:
79 Ersan Ilyasova - $2,541,000
74 Beno Udrih - $6,925,400 - $7,372,200
70 Kwame Brown - $6,750,000
Total: $16,216,400
I accept. I like Ilyasova and was planning on targeting him in free agency so to get him early and also get the home town advantage when we get to the offseason would be nice. While I like Afflalo and I think 76 is too low a rating for him I don't really like having to commit 5 years to him since his contract, while not bad, could be a lot better. I don't really like Udrih or Kwame but I am fine taking them if it gets me out of two long contracts and helps me keep Ersan long term.
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Post by Oscar Robertson on May 29, 2012 21:15:57 GMT
We a agree getting a good power forward in tyrus thomas. And we wont miss Ersan Ilyasova's shooting because we already have Ellis and Jennings.
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Post by Rubén Magnano on May 29, 2012 21:24:35 GMT
Interesting trade. It looks pretty even in terms of value. Nuggets might be getting a better deal because of the "extremely reasonable FA contracts" policy.
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Post by Aubrey Graham on May 29, 2012 22:19:10 GMT
I accept, MIL gets some immediate help for a playoff push and DEN clears up around 15M for next season
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Post by Walt Frazier on May 30, 2012 1:01:47 GMT
Tyrus is not a good PF. Got into 54 games, 30 starts, on the worst team in the league (Bobcats). He was only able to squeak out:
18.8 mpg/5.6ppg/3.7rpg/1.1bpg/36.7% FG.
Even if we round up, 6 and 4 on only 37% shooting on the worst team in the league...And he gets 7 - 9 million per year for the next 4 seasons?
That could be the worst contract in the league.
If this D5 works like the old one, his rating could go down at any point, including during this regular season. Those stats probably warrant a low 70's or high 60's rating IMO.
Ilyasova meanwhile had a MONSTER break-out season. I realize he expires, but he has a good role on the Bucks, has played there his whole career (even though he's been back and forth once or twice to Europe)...have to think Milwaukee has a solid shot at signing him back with their lack of frontcourt depth.
I don't really like this trade. Afflalo is also a solid piece to get back, but his contract is a bit large and long also. Right now I'm leaning reject but I'll put in an official vote tomorrow, gonna think on this for a little.
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Lucas Lutkus
Former Bobcats GM
Sophomore
Posts: 684
Jul 16, 2013 9:57:53 GMT
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Post by Lucas Lutkus on May 30, 2012 1:18:16 GMT
Tyrus is not a good PF. Got into 54 games, 30 starts, on the worst team in the league (Bobcats). He was only able to squeak out: 18.8 mpg/5.6ppg/3.7rpg/1.1bpg/36.7% FG. Even if we round up, 6 and 4 on only 37% shooting on the worst team in the league...And he gets 7 - 9 million per year for the next 4 seasons? That could be the worst contract in the league. If this D5 works like the old one, his rating could go down at any point, including during this regular season. Those stats probably warrant a low 70's or high 60's rating IMO. And i traded him for Andersen and Miller! Lucas Lutkus for EOY please hahahahaha |
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Post by Rubén Magnano on May 30, 2012 2:13:09 GMT
Walt Frazier, you are forgetting about D.J. Augustin. I could easily imagine his rating going up next season.
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Post by Walt Frazier on May 30, 2012 2:33:06 GMT
Not forgetting him at all. He actually regressed this season...FG% down from 42 - 38%...even for a Guard, that's BAD. TO's went up a bit, even though he played less mpg. Now ast also went up slightly, but overall...he showed no improvement, regressed in one or two areas. I don't see why he'd be rated much higher, if at all.
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Post by Rubén Magnano on May 30, 2012 2:46:27 GMT
Augustin averaged 11.1 ppg, 2.30 rpg, 6.4 apg last season. There are pgs rated much higher in the league which average much less than that in real life. Sure, Bobcats sucked last season but Augustin was alright when Bobcats sucked and when they didn't. Moreover, he is restriced this off-season in real life and might find a good role in Charlotte or somewhere else.
Even if the deal is better for Nuggets it is not rejectable i think.
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Post by Alex English on May 30, 2012 2:59:17 GMT
Tyrus is not a good PF. Got into 54 games, 30 starts, on the worst team in the league (Bobcats). He was only able to squeak out: 18.8 mpg/5.6ppg/3.7rpg/1.1bpg/36.7% FG. Even if we round up, 6 and 4 on only 37% shooting on the worst team in the league...And he gets 7 - 9 million per year for the next 4 seasons? That could be the worst contract in the league. If this D5 works like the old one, his rating could go down at any point, including during this regular season. Those stats probably warrant a low 70's or high 60's rating IMO. Ilyasova meanwhile had a MONSTER break-out season. I realize he expires, but he has a good role on the Bucks, has played there his whole career (even though he's been back and forth once or twice to Europe)...have to think Milwaukee has a solid shot at signing him back with their lack of frontcourt depth. I don't really like this trade. Afflalo is also a solid piece to get back, but his contract is a bit large and long also. Right now I'm leaning reject but I'll put in an official vote tomorrow, gonna think on this for a little. Tyrus had a terrible season so I don't think it's fair to only look at this years stats. At this time last season he was poised for a breakout as two years ago he averaged 10.2 ppg, 5.5 rpg and 1.6 bpg in just 21 minutes per game and he had a 18.2PER. Those stats come out to 17.5 ppg, 9.4 rpg and 2.8 bpg per 36 minutes. If he did that he would be one of the best young power forwards in the league. If you look at his stats page it looks like this season is the outlier and considering the lockout situation and the lack of training all players had during that time it is possible that he comes back to his form of two years ago. I am not saying he is going to turn into an all-star or anything because you make some good points, but the guy is still 25 years old so he is by no means done as a potential impact player. Not forgetting him at all. He actually regressed this season...FG% down from 42 - 38%...even for a Guard, that's BAD. TO's went up a bit, even though he played less mpg. Now ast also went up slightly, but overall...he showed no improvement, regressed in one or two areas. I don't see why he'd be rated much higher, if at all. Well Charlotte has just put all their chips down on Kemba Walker so DJ is in a tough spot. He is also just 24 years old still so with a change of scenery he could still become a starting quality point guard. |
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Post by Walt Frazier on May 30, 2012 3:09:24 GMT
Augustin averaged 11.1 ppg, 2.30 rpg, 6.4 apg last season. There are pgs rated much higher in the league which average much less than that in real life. Sure, Bobcats sucked last season but Augustin was alright when Bobcats sucked and when they didn't. Moreover, he is restriced this off-season in real life and might find a good role in Charlotte or somewhere else. Even if the deal is better for Nuggets it is not rejectable i think. My call to make ultimately about the reject... Where he "might" or "might not" find a good role this offseason won't have an affect on his ratings for some time yet. He also had 2.3 TO's per game, and as I mentioned, shot only 37.6% from the field. If Augustin got any increase it would be to no more than a 74-75 I'd say, and not sure if that is likely to happen. We can also look at lowering the ratings of the players you are insinuating are out there and who may be overrated. Anyway, I don't think Augustin comes close to countering Tyrus' big negative value. By the time you use Augustin and Afflalo to try and cancel out Tyrus' negative value, you end up with Nuggets just getting Ilyasova for free and cutting out a lot of future salary. Pretty nice for him. |
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Post by Walt Frazier on May 30, 2012 3:19:13 GMT
Tyrus is not a good PF. Got into 54 games, 30 starts, on the worst team in the league (Bobcats). He was only able to squeak out: 18.8 mpg/5.6ppg/3.7rpg/1.1bpg/36.7% FG. Even if we round up, 6 and 4 on only 37% shooting on the worst team in the league...And he gets 7 - 9 million per year for the next 4 seasons? That could be the worst contract in the league. If this D5 works like the old one, his rating could go down at any point, including during this regular season. Those stats probably warrant a low 70's or high 60's rating IMO. Ilyasova meanwhile had a MONSTER break-out season. I realize he expires, but he has a good role on the Bucks, has played there his whole career (even though he's been back and forth once or twice to Europe)...have to think Milwaukee has a solid shot at signing him back with their lack of frontcourt depth. I don't really like this trade. Afflalo is also a solid piece to get back, but his contract is a bit large and long also. Right now I'm leaning reject but I'll put in an official vote tomorrow, gonna think on this for a little. Tyrus had a terrible season so I don't think it's fair to only look at this years stats. At this time last season he was poised for a breakout as two years ago he averaged 10.2 ppg, 5.5 rpg and 1.6 bpg in just 21 minutes per game and he had a 18.2PER. Those stats come out to 17.5 ppg, 9.4 rpg and 2.8 bpg per 36 minutes. If he did that he would be one of the best young power forwards in the league. If you look at his stats page it looks like this season is the outlier and considering the lockout situation and the lack of training all players had during that time it is possible that he comes back to his form of two years ago. I am not saying he is going to turn into an all-star or anything because you make some good points, but the guy is still 25 years old so he is by no means done as a potential impact player. Not forgetting him at all. He actually regressed this season...FG% down from 42 - 38%...even for a Guard, that's BAD. TO's went up a bit, even though he played less mpg. Now ast also went up slightly, but overall...he showed no improvement, regressed in one or two areas. I don't see why he'd be rated much higher, if at all. Well Charlotte has just put all their chips down on Kemba Walker so DJ is in a tough spot. He is also just 24 years old still so with a change of scenery he could still become a starting quality point guard. Looking at Tyrus' stats page leads me to his career stats. 6 years in, he is now averaging - 20.2 mpg, 7.9ppg, 5.0rpg, 44% FG, less than 1 apg, just under 1 spg, 1.4 bpg. The kid is athletic, and that leads to the blocks. Other than that, he's low on basketball skill, and having completed 6 NBA seasons, I just don't see reason to keep up hope for him. Plus he's paid like a very good player, for a pretty long time. I just think he's a HUGE negative value. I'll give you that his FG% this season is a bit of an outlier...still not impressed by his career or any single season. The fact he can't earn minutes when the Bobcats were rotating PF/C's throughout the season should tell you something as well. As for Augustin...again, yea maybe he ends up somewhere and does better. Maybe most teams see him as a backup, and someone signs him for that. Maybe he ends up back in Charlotte. maybe he ends up in Europe. Maybe..... I can't really value the guy based on what "could" happen. That's how I've always worked in these sim leagues. Same with the FA stuff. someone says "hey if your guy signs here, we'll make room for him and trade away this and/or that player!" Well, tough luck, unfortunately. That might not work out, and then my guy is stuck behind better players. This isn't really something specific to anything happening in D5, just stuff I've run into in my years of doing these Sims. Anyway, I do have to think about it some more, on first glance I think the Bucks give up their 3rd best player, and a guy who just looked great for large portions of last season...and gets back some big potential problems. |
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Post by Alex English on May 30, 2012 3:20:38 GMT
you end up with Nuggets just getting Ilyasova for free and cutting out a lot of future salary. Pretty nice for him. Well Ilyasova is up to make about the same if not more as Tyrus in free agency so I am not exactly sure how much money I am saving in the long run. Also now I am the one taking the risk of his free agency because if he signs elsewhere then I lose out pretty hard on this deal. That also matters for Milwaukee too, if Ersan was to leave in the offseason and he gets nothing then it could have been a mistake that he didn't take this deal. But whatever, I have given my reasoning and defended my trade. You will vote whatever you feel is best so I am fine either way. |
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Lucas Lutkus
Former Bobcats GM
Sophomore
Posts: 684
Jul 16, 2013 9:57:53 GMT
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Post by Lucas Lutkus on May 30, 2012 3:22:04 GMT
IMO, this trade is pretty much Ilyasova for 3 players, nobody cares about Beno Udrih and Kwame Brown is trash...
Ilyasova is a hell of a prospect, but as Bucks said, he has two good shooters already in his team and he's looking to some solid players to give him some depth:
Tyrus is a explosive, energetic, extremely athletic player, an excellent dunker and amazing shot blocker, his offensive game sucks, but in a team like Bucks, they don't need more offensive players...
in DJ Augustin, the Bucks gets what they most lack in Jennings/Ellis: a playmaker. Augustin has shown that he can distributes the ball well, yes, he lacks athleticism, but he's not going to be more than a backup guard to calm the things down when the Bucks needs him
And finally, they get Arron Afflalo, a very good bench player for any team in the NBA, Afflalo is that guy that can always play 10/12 minutes and make some good mid-range shots, he may be inconsistent some times, but he's always good to have with you
For me it's a fair trade, Bucks lose nothing in Udrih and Brown and this trio is worth Ilyasova, who is growing up, but, IMO, isn't going to ever be an all-star...
Salaries speaking, i think that Bucks plan is to work on chemistry, his team has not much expiring contracts and he might be building a team around Brandon Jennings with playmakers, defenders, shooters and other good players.
If i was from the trade commitee, i would accept it.
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Post by Rubén Magnano on May 30, 2012 3:28:08 GMT
nobody cares about Beno Udrih and Kwame Brown is trash... I think Udrih has negative value. His salary is high and his rating should be much lower to that of Augustin. At the end, the fairness of this deal probably depends on how "reasonable" FA contracts will be. Since Walt is a player agent, if he thinks the deal is rejectable he might have good reasons for that. |
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on May 30, 2012 14:28:10 GMT
Milwaukee is getting the better players, but it is offset by the amount of cap he is taking. If he wants to eat all that salary, who am I to stop him?
Accept
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Isiah Thomas
Former Heat GM
Rookie
Posts: 103
Aug 12, 2012 23:58:26 GMT
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Post by Isiah Thomas on May 31, 2012 0:26:00 GMT
I accept
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Post by Alex English on May 31, 2012 1:20:10 GMT
Nice, that's 3 accepts. I guess this takes me out of the running for Jeff Green though.
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Post by Ian Noble on May 31, 2012 18:09:53 GMT
I agree somewhat with what Walt Frazier's saying, but in the end I don't see it as enough to give a reject and I'm surely the strictest bastard on the trade committee ;D
I accept. Trade passed.
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