Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838 
|
Post by Kevin Hollis on Jan 9, 2015 19:28:36 GMT
I know he has been injured, but if his stats don't pick up by the ASB, I definitely think his rating should be lowered.
|
|
|
|
Post by Brian Scalabrine on Jan 9, 2015 19:34:45 GMT
16.8 PPG 4.9 APG 3 RPG 39.7FG% 26.2 3P% 5.0 3 pointers attempted per game 14.8 PER
We have given Derrick now 3 years to prove himself again and I think at this point its more than fair to lower his rating. His stats last year were almost exactly the same, showing that he isn't playing injured but his injuries have changed who he is.
There is no way we can rate him above Lowry, Wall, Lillard or frankly even Mike Conley. His rating needs to be lowered now not because of injuries but because he shows Josh Smith level shot selection, shooting 3s when he clearly can't and watching Bulls games he doesn't have the explosiveness he sued to.
I have always been a proponent of waiting on Rose's rating but at this point he does not deserve his rating.
I vote 83
|
|
Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
|
Post by Kevin Hollis on Jan 9, 2015 19:40:59 GMT
I will go with an 84 just because of the potential he still has. His stats are all down for the past 3 years, as you mentioned.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jeremiah Hill on Jan 9, 2015 20:24:44 GMT
83
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 30, 2024 10:35:42 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2015 20:49:12 GMT
80
|
|
|
|
Post by Charles Barkley on Jan 9, 2015 20:58:22 GMT
Still shows flashes of the same Derrick Rose he once was, because of that, I'll go 88
|
|
|
|
Post by Charles Barkley on Jan 9, 2015 21:05:00 GMT
Using a new version of the Chris Bosh scale, called the Lillard scale? |
|
|
|
Post by Brian Scalabrine on Jan 9, 2015 21:07:11 GMT
Still shows flashes of the same Derrick Rose he once was, because of that, I'll go 87 Haha always impartial Charles |
|
|
|
Post by Charles Barkley on Jan 9, 2015 21:13:17 GMT
Still shows flashes of the same Derrick Rose he once was, because of that, I'll go 87 Haha always impartial Charles It isn't about the stats in this case for me, he is still the same Derrick Rose at times, and, since it isn't all the time, I accounted for that. But those flashes where he is the same Derrick Rose, he's better than everyone besides Westbrook and Paul. Everyone just looks at the stats and judges off of that, if there's any case where the eye test is most important, its this case. Beyond that, he doesn't have to be the old Derrick Rose anymore, he has a way better supporting cast than when he won the MVP. Noah, Pau, and Jimmy are all huge contributors now; there isn't a need for him to score 30 a night anymore. |
|
|
|
Post by Brian Scalabrine on Jan 9, 2015 21:37:18 GMT
Haha always impartial Charles It isn't about the stats in this case for me, he is still the same Derrick Rose at times, and, since it isn't all the time, I accounted for that. But those flashes where he is the same Derrick Rose, he's better than everyone besides Westbrook and Paul. Everyone just looks at the stats and judges off of that, if there's any case where the eye test is most important, its this case. Beyond that, he doesn't have to be the old Derrick Rose anymore, he has a way better supporting cast than when he won the MVP. Noah, Pau, and Jimmy are all huge contributors now; there isn't a need for him to score 30 a night anymore. If he doesn't need to score 30 why does he still take and miss so many shots. The Bulls are always on TV so I see him a lot. He doesn't finish like he used to at the rim and I don't think I've seen even a glimmer of his old explosiveness. |
|
|
|
Post by James Kay on Jan 9, 2015 22:03:59 GMT
16.8 PPG 4.9 APG 3 RPG 39.7FG% 26.2 3P% 5.0 3 pointers attempted per game 14.8 PER We have given Derrick now 3 years to prove himself again and I think at this point its more than fair to lower his rating. His stats last year were almost exactly the same, showing that he isn't playing injured but his injuries have changed who he is. There is no way we can rate him above Lowry, Wall, Lillard or frankly even Mike Conley. His rating needs to be lowered now not because of injuries but because he shows Josh Smith level shot selection, shooting 3s when he clearly can't and watching Bulls games he doesn't have the explosiveness he sued to. I have always been a proponent of waiting on Rose's rating but at this point he does not deserve his rating. I vote 83 "Frankly even mike Conley" haha Well I think Conley should be above an 84 but that's another issue... Anyway, I've been a big proponent of lowering rose. He's not a 90+ player anymore. However, I have watched a lot of Bulls this year and he seems to be pretty damn clutch when his team needs to be. Admittedly, he plays super poorly sometimes. I also think that this thread may be largely based upon his recent shooting slump if you can even call that disaster a slump. I'll go 85. He's still Derrick rose. |
|
Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
|
Post by Kevin Hollis on Jan 9, 2015 22:04:18 GMT
I agree. I have yet to set him show any resemblance to his old self. I think it is a mental game for him, but he has a long way to get back to form.
|
|
|
|
Post by Brian Scalabrine on Jan 9, 2015 22:12:18 GMT
James Kay Defiantly not a jab at Conley he's totally elite PG in the league
|
|
Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
|
Post by Kevin Hollis on Jan 9, 2015 22:26:37 GMT
Conley is the most underrated PG in the game.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 30, 2024 10:35:42 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2015 0:19:55 GMT
Using a new version of the Chris Bosh scale, called the Lillard scale? No, I just don't see it man...sorry. With that said, however, you bring up a good point that people are rating him and Lillard in the same ballpark when the latter obviously dwarfs the former. |
|
|
|
Post by Jeremiah Hill on Jan 10, 2015 2:01:45 GMT
Obviously John Wall is showing us what he thinks about Rose's current rating right now.
|
|
|
|
Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 10, 2015 2:27:43 GMT
He does deserve a decrease, man I dunno if I can go so low as a few of you yet though. I still feel like it's kind of injury related. Now, of course, at a certain point, enough is enough, but an 80 from Vlade is way low. The 83's are hard for me to go to but I do understand why, more or less.
I'm gonna give him a bit of credit for being Derrick Rose and put him at an 86.
|
|
|
|
Post by Charles Barkley on Jan 10, 2015 2:33:13 GMT
Obviously John Wall is showing us what he thinks about Rose's current rating right now. Rose has scored more points at a more efficient rate so far tonight. |
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 30, 2024 10:35:42 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2015 2:37:45 GMT
He does deserve a decrease, man I dunno if I can go so low as a few of you yet though. I still feel like it's kind of injury related. Now, of course, at a certain point, enough is enough, but an 80 from Vlade is way low. The 83's are hard for me to go to but I do understand why, more or less. I'm gonna give him a bit of credit for being Derrick Rose and put him at an 86. Can you tell that I've had enough?  |
|
|
|
Post by Jeremiah Hill on Jan 10, 2015 2:41:21 GMT
Obviously John Wall is showing us what he thinks about Rose's current rating right now. Rose has scored more points at a more efficient rate so far tonight. 0 assists, 0 assists, 0 assists, 0 assists, 0 assists, 0 assists
Are you watching the game or just the game cast? Because John Wall is making Derrick Rose look like rookie Kyrie Irving. |
|
|
|
Post by Charles Barkley on Jan 10, 2015 2:50:46 GMT
Rose has scored more points at a more efficient rate so far tonight. 0 assists, 0 assists, 0 assists, 0 assists, 0 assists, 0 assists
Are you watching the game or just the game cast? Because John Wall is making Derrick Rose look like rookie Kyrie Irving. CAN YOU FUCKING READ? READ WHAT I FUCKING SAID? Did I say anything about Rose having the better game? No. Did I say anything about assists? No. I said Rose had scored more points at a more efficient rate. Its not my fault you can't comprehend what I said. |
|
Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
|
Post by Kevin Hollis on Jan 10, 2015 2:58:38 GMT
Where is the voice of reason?
|
|
|
|
Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 10, 2015 3:01:37 GMT
Where is the voice of reason? I'm not sure what he's going to vote. Either 76 or 91. Can't be much in between. |
|
|
|
Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Jan 10, 2015 3:47:47 GMT
I'm going 83.
That is my sum up with all the discussions above.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jeremiah Hill on Jan 10, 2015 18:10:59 GMT
0 assists, 0 assists, 0 assists, 0 assists, 0 assists, 0 assists, 0 assists
Are you watching the game or just the game cast? Because John Wall is making Derrick Rose look like rookie Kyrie Irving. CAN YOU FUCKING READ? READ WHAT I FUCKING SAID? Did I say anything about Rose having the better game? No. Did I say anything about assists? No. I said Rose had scored more points at a more efficient rate. Its not my fault you can't comprehend what I said. I was just being a smart ass. |
|
|
|
Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Jan 15, 2015 13:35:54 GMT
84
|
|
Chris Mullin
 Golden State Warriors
Starter
Posts: 1,303
Feb 19, 2024 21:58:28 GMT
|
Post by Chris Mullin on Jan 15, 2015 17:22:42 GMT
86
|
|
|
|
Post by Charles Barkley on Jan 21, 2015 16:44:50 GMT
We should get some more votes on this. Rose is a controversial topic, lowering a 90+ player should warrant more votes.
FWIW he has showed a lot more of his old self these last few games while posting very very low turnovers. I think in his last 3 games he has 1 turnover and 8+ assists in each of those games.
Really think everyone is just lowering him based off of his numbers rather than what they've actually seen. And I've seen a lot of Rose, a league pass and no job will do that, and there's more and more flashes of his old self recently combined with new parts of his game such as improved shooting and a pretty floater.
Because of this I am changing my original vote and will edit my original post. So please, more votes.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 30, 2024 10:35:42 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2015 17:09:00 GMT
Rose looks great but he doesn't look better than Jimmy Butler. 87
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 30, 2024 10:35:42 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2015 17:29:14 GMT
85 until and if he ever gets back to his old self.
Players like him that have serious injuries barely ever return to their norm.
I am looking for Paul George to be the same. Guess it all depends on work ethic and mentally not being afraid to get hurt again. I think mentally if your a weak person, its more likely after such an injury you only have streaks of greatness. Overtime injuries turn stars into star role players and 6th MOY type players. At least Rose plays. some players just never heal in whole. Would suck for Indy to lose Granger and then George to injuries. Both were great explosive scorers. Sad how one injury leads to rebuild. Well maybe..
|
|
New Orleans Pelicans
Charlotte Hornets
Minnesota Timberwolves
Cleveland Cavaliers
Brooklyn Nets
