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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Jan 5, 2015 0:30:54 GMT
Jazz Send:
83 Shawn Marion $507,336
Spurs Send:
72 Draymond Green $700,000
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Jan 5, 2015 0:43:30 GMT
Does JR know there is a stockwatch to lower marion and raise green?
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 5, 2015 1:32:22 GMT
Green is a far better player than Marion. Both are expiring, why wouldn't JR want to keep the younger guy, make a case that he acquired him before his breakout, and try to get Draymond to stay with his team?
If nothing else, he could get a LOT more than this after a new contract next year if he can make that happen.
But yea, with the rating changes I just don't get why JR does this. And, JR's team has notoriously been in generally rough shape, so I think he actually hurts his team value here enough that I'd reject.
I'll wait for JR to accept or deny this trade, but I think I'll reject if he does accept.
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Post by Danny Longley on Jan 5, 2015 5:33:24 GMT
I'm inclined to decline as well. Marion might just be on the brink of retirement, and next year might actually be the first season that the Spurs have cap space.
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Post by Charles Barkley on Jan 5, 2015 6:24:01 GMT
Does JR know there is a stockwatch to lower marion and raise green? In JR's world, stock watch doesn't exist. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2015 8:40:11 GMT
Just so everyone knows I had talked to Barber about this trade but after thinking on it I do decline. Thanks and good luck
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Jan 5, 2015 13:42:56 GMT
Strange that I can trade 77 Avery Bradley and 75 Josh McBob for Marion and no one says a word, yet this is unfair in the eyes of certain TC members.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 5, 2015 14:23:16 GMT
#1 - We honestsly just have to protect certain teams. If the talent level is low enough that Draymond Green on an expiring year is one of your best pieces...you better get something useful for him if you decide to trade him. And I mean long-term useful, in some way.
#2 - Those two guys, IMHO, are not all that good. I wouldn't trade Draymond for both of them combined personally.
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Jan 5, 2015 14:52:57 GMT
#1 - We honestsly just have to protect certain teams. If the talent level is low enough that Draymond Green on an expiring year is one of your best pieces...you better get something useful for him if you decide to trade him. And I mean long-term useful, in some way. #2 - Those two guys, IMHO, are not all that good. I wouldn't trade Draymond for both of them combined personally. Bradley and McBob are definitely worth more than an expiring Green. Green is what, a ~78 rated player who is at best a 4 month rental? So best case scenario, he is Avery Bradley. And then I also included McBob, who is on a wonderful contract and is a very serviceable big. It doesn't matter what you would do personally, it matters that you are consistent and non-biased in voting on trades. It is frustrating to watch things like this happen, and it ruins the league. I don't care that JR backed out, it's his team to do what he wants. I don't care that this trade is rejected, its two garbage players anyway. But, I do care that the TC is inconsistent and is not impartial to certain GMs. Stop with the banter and just do your job |
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Post by Ian Noble on Jan 5, 2015 15:54:45 GMT
#1 - We honestsly just have to protect certain teams. If the talent level is low enough that Draymond Green on an expiring year is one of your best pieces...you better get something useful for him if you decide to trade him. And I mean long-term useful, in some way. #2 - Those two guys, IMHO, are not all that good. I wouldn't trade Draymond for both of them combined personally. Bradley and McBob are definitely worth more than an expiring Green. Green is what, a ~78 rated player who is at best a 4 month rental? So best case scenario, he is Avery Bradley. And then I also included McBob, who is on a wonderful contract and is a very serviceable big. It doesn't matter what you would do personally, it matters that you are consistent and non-biased in voting on trades. It is frustrating to watch things like this happen, and it ruins the league. I don't care that JR backed out, it's his team to do what he wants. I don't care that this trade is rejected, its two garbage players anyway. But, I do care that the TC is inconsistent and is not impartial to certain GMs. Stop with the banter and just do your job I think it's because we can place a lot of trust in you as a GM, whereas we can't place as much trust in JR. If you want to acquire Marion for Avery and McBob, go for it, I'm sure you've got a plan. But if JR wants to trade an improving prospect for Marion it's something we do have to treat differently. |
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Post by James Kay on Jan 5, 2015 16:03:08 GMT
#1 - We honestsly just have to protect certain teams. If the talent level is low enough that Draymond Green on an expiring year is one of your best pieces...you better get something useful for him if you decide to trade him. And I mean long-term useful, in some way. #2 - Those two guys, IMHO, are not all that good. I wouldn't trade Draymond for both of them combined personally. Bradley and McBob are definitely worth more than an expiring Green. Green is what, a ~78 rated player who is at best a 4 month rental? So best case scenario, he is Avery Bradley. And then I also included McBob, who is on a wonderful contract and is a very serviceable big. It doesn't matter what you would do personally, it matters that you are consistent and non-biased in voting on trades. It is frustrating to watch things like this happen, and it ruins the league. I don't care that JR backed out, it's his team to do what he wants. I don't care that this trade is rejected, its two garbage players anyway. But, I do care that the TC is inconsistent and is not impartial to certain GMs. Stop with the banter and just do your job Barber quit it with the persecution complex. This is far from the first JR trade that has been rejected. And with both of these players being on 1 year contracts, and both of these players having stock watch threads going in opposite directions, it's not hard to see why these trade is rejectable. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2015 17:04:09 GMT
While I am not on anyone's side and do not have a horse in the race, does a trade like this really matter? Let me reemphasize to people that the resigning team in free-agency possesses ABSOLUTE NO ADVANTAGE unless they own the player's bird rights. Therefore, JR could, in theory, own Marion for this year and resign Green in the off-season just as easily as Utah or any other team that owns him. Hopefully, the league wised up and changed this rule but I doubt it. If you ever wondered, the aforementioned fact constitutes the reason why I often go into the off-season with a lot of cap space.
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Jan 5, 2015 17:23:31 GMT
Like I said, I really couldn't care less, in regards to my team, that this trade was rejected. It literally doesn't have any affect on either team. Which is why it is just really bizarre to me that certain TC members thought it was worthy of rejection. Especially considering what I gave up to get Marion last week, for which no one blinked an eye
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 5, 2015 21:37:46 GMT
#1 - We honestsly just have to protect certain teams. If the talent level is low enough that Draymond Green on an expiring year is one of your best pieces...you better get something useful for him if you decide to trade him. And I mean long-term useful, in some way. #2 - Those two guys, IMHO, are not all that good. I wouldn't trade Draymond for both of them combined personally. Bradley and McBob are definitely worth more than an expiring Green. Green is what, a ~78 rated player who is at best a 4 month rental? So best case scenario, he is Avery Bradley. And then I also included McBob, who is on a wonderful contract and is a very serviceable big. It doesn't matter what you would do personally, it matters that you are consistent and non-biased in voting on trades. It is frustrating to watch things like this happen, and it ruins the league. I don't care that JR backed out, it's his team to do what he wants. I don't care that this trade is rejected, its two garbage players anyway. But, I do care that the TC is inconsistent and is not impartial to certain GMs. Stop with the banter and just do your job To be clear, I wouldn't have rejected just based on #2. Just my personal opinion. I reject b/c of #1. #2 is just an add-on. Also what Ian said afterwards is directly on point. You don't have to do this fake "certain TC members" bullshit either. I'm the only one who officially declined and Longley has only been on the TC for like a week so we know you're talking about me. Be a man, son! |
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 5, 2015 21:43:00 GMT
Like I said, I really couldn't care less, in regards to my team, that this trade was rejected. It literally doesn't have any affect on either team. Which is why it is just really bizarre to me that certain TC members thought it was worthy of rejection. Especially considering what I gave up to get Marion last week, for which no one blinked an eye I would also argue that I am very consistent with my player values and trade opinions. I'm one of the main guys calling for reject when Alex gets a guy like Len for free. I'm the one calling for a reject when you get the better, younger player in this deal from a team that needs to keep any youth it has and also any valuable player it has. Even if he doesn't have a great chance at re-signing him just b/c he has him, without Bird Rights, as a Player Agent myself I can tell you it could be at least a small factor when deciding between teams in Free Agency. If JR would show some dedication to a guy like Green he could have a solid shot at re-signing him if money and some other factors are similar. Now that he is trying to trade him away for minimal value, that may not apply as much, but that's my point. Those last 2 paragraphs are probably more for Vlade. Barber - If you would have traded McBob & Avery for Green & Foye I would have also accepted. Once JR gets involved things need to be looked at much more closely. Just the truth of the matter. And I'm VERY consistent about that. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2015 22:37:44 GMT
Even if he doesn't have a great chance at re-signing him just b/c he has him, without Bird Rights, as a Player Agent myself I can tell you it could be at least a small factor when deciding between teams in Free Agency. If JR would show some dedication to a guy like Green he could have a solid shot at re-signing him if money and some other factors are similar. Now that he is trying to trade him away for minimal value, that may not apply as much, but that's my point. Those last 2 paragraphs are probably more for Vlade. I would like for Ian and/or the other player agents to state whether it matters or not because it makes a huge difference when determining value in this league. |
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Post by Ian Noble on Jan 6, 2015 22:57:20 GMT
I would like for Ian and/or the other player agents to state whether it matters or not because it makes a huge difference when determining value in this league. Each player agent is different. I am inclined to be more like Josh here and I do reward dedication, in fact I'm sure most Player Agents do, mostly because there's not a lot else that will separate bidding teams in a lot of instances. I always keep this general guide, the Off Season Free Agency Guide stickied in the OSFA section though for reference because it's the best advice to give GMs. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2015 23:37:11 GMT
Each player agent is different. I am inclined to be more like Josh here and I do reward dedication, in fact I'm sure most Player Agents do, mostly because there's not a lot else that will separate bidding teams in a lot of instances. I always keep this general guide, the Off Season Free Agency Guide stickied in the OSFA section though for reference because it's the best advice to give GMs. I think we should make another factor or add it into #4 "are you the resigning team without Bird Rights?" For instance, I should possess some advantage when resigning Marc Gasol because I held on to him for 2 years and honestly never even fielded many, if any, serious trade offers. |
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 6, 2015 23:46:24 GMT
For me, just to be clear: It can matter, if most other factors are the same.
That's really all. To me, with JR's team the way it is, he needs to improve any and all chances he might have to keep good players.
If JR offers half the money, or if a clearly better team comes in with the same money, he would leave.
But again, JR needs to do everything he can to build this team. Like keeping the younger and better guy in this scenario.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 6, 2015 23:48:10 GMT
Each player agent is different. I am inclined to be more like Josh here and I do reward dedication, in fact I'm sure most Player Agents do, mostly because there's not a lot else that will separate bidding teams in a lot of instances. I always keep this general guide, the Off Season Free Agency Guide stickied in the OSFA section though for reference because it's the best advice to give GMs. Confused me for a minute because my real name is actually Josh (shh). That was me who said what you are agreeing to, not Josh Barber. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2015 0:07:03 GMT
I think we should make another factor or add it into #4 "are you the resigning team without Bird Rights?" For instance, I should possess some advantage when resigning Marc Gasol because I held on to him for 2 years and honestly never even fielded many, if any, serious trade offers. Fielding offers for players should not be a deciding factor. You can't tell me GMs don't get and request offers on ALL players. Even those set as franchise players. Even more so FAs in a fantasy league where other active gms act as player agents and make crucial league and team decisions and/or signings and extensions. Hold all the trust you want in these few gms if you want but in sim leagues..no signings in FA are set in stone. Then you get gms that were PA that made past decisions that now are back to being just gms and not both. Gms that are both and active in other areas of the league are important to the league but also have too much say over other teams and the league. It's almost like having one Admin but about 4 total gms run the league and make crucial decisions. Yes I offered Green. Yes I offered Duncan. But why because I did should I now not have a top chance at signing him to a contract. I do this because anything can happen in this league and past decisions dictate that. I don't trust any gm but Ian honestly. I tried to offer Duncan and the trade failed. He became a FA and he left for 3/4 less than what I was offering! Players sign for money then ring situation...always. Dedication to a player is not proven. Only way to prove dedication is by playing time. And I agree all teams should have first opportunity to sign a FA...we need something like RFA and UFA. But again $$$$ talks...and if it did you guys would not be hounding me and watching every move I make..cuz Duncan should and would still be a Spur...for life!!! |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2015 0:15:48 GMT
Yes I did go back to Duncan 3 seasons later. If he would have signed, Ginobili and Parker would not have left that season. Who knows how things would have played out. Yes I had legit vets on my roster as the cavs do now. But when I did my team was the best in the reg season in the west conference.
Lets not argue...
I just want it so I can offer all my players..and even after doing so still have the same chance as anyone to sign any FA from my team.
The past is just that..but lets get rules straight and fair!
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Post by Alex English on Jan 7, 2015 3:15:27 GMT
Draymond Green has no trade value. I accept.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2015 3:22:15 GMT
Lol. Funny. Don't know why votes are placed when there is no trade.
And I did pick him up knowing he would get value...just like Gerald and many other players I've had on my rosters...
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Post by Alex English on Jan 7, 2015 3:33:41 GMT
Lol. Funny. Don't know why votes are placed when there is no trade. And I did pick him up knowing he would get value...just like Gerald and many other players I've had on my rosters... I'm posting because Josh is right, not as a serious vote. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2015 4:23:54 GMT
Fielding offers for players should not be a deciding factor. You can't tell me GMs don't get and request offers on ALL players. Even those set as franchise players. Even more so FAs in a fantasy league where other active gms act as player agents and make crucial league and team decisions and/or signings and extensions. Hold all the trust you want in these few gms if you want but in sim leagues..no signings in FA are set in stone. Then you get gms that were PA that made past decisions that now are back to being just gms and not both. Gms that are both and active in other areas of the league are important to the league but also have too much say over other teams and the league. It's almost like having one Admin but about 4 total gms run the league and make crucial decisions. Yes I offered Green. Yes I offered Duncan. But why because I did should I now not have a top chance at signing him to a contract. I do this because anything can happen in this league and past decisions dictate that. I don't trust any gm but Ian honestly. I tried to offer Duncan and the trade failed. He became a FA and he left for 3/4 less than what I was offering! Players sign for money then ring situation...always. Dedication to a player is not proven. Only way to prove dedication is by playing time. And I agree all teams should have first opportunity to sign a FA...we need something like RFA and UFA. But again $$$$ talks...and if it did you guys would not be hounding me and watching every move I make..cuz Duncan should and would still be a Spur...for life!!! You are like a hardcore Libertarian, aren't you? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2015 6:20:21 GMT
More community capitalism really
..
I just think people should not be judged on long term past errors, but on what they have learned and an updated and changed due to the fact that no one is perfect and people change from mistakes.
You are dealt the hand you are given and you can only use what you are left with.
We are all equal and should be no matter who we are or where we have come from and what decisions good or bad or right or wrong that have been made.
Freedom to make what you have the best it can be. Not to be judged or pointed out. More so when you have the experience and knowledge on an equal level to those that think they know everything, even when they may be wrong. Everyone has an opinion personally and each have that right.
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Post by Ian Noble on Jan 7, 2015 11:56:25 GMT
Fielding offers for players should not be a deciding factor. That's not how it's judged, it's judged by whether you've kept the player on your team. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2015 21:27:16 GMT
Ian, could we make whether you own the player a factor even if its #7 on the list?
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