MIN/SAC Trade

[Walt Frazier]

Minnesota Trades:
81 Derrick Williams $4,602,720 $4,809,840 $5,016,960 $6,331,404 $8,262,482
78 Matt Barnes $1,906,200
74 Jordan Hill $2,855,760
76 Jose Barea $4,300,000 $4,493,500 $4,687,000 $4,519,500

Total: $13,664,680


Sacramento Trades:
83 Tyreke Evans $4,151,640 $5,251,825 $6,927,157
77 Jason Maxiell $5,000,000 $5,000,000
76 Isaiah Thomas $473,604 $762,195 $884,293

Total: $9,625,244


Sacramento is 5-6 million under the cap, so this works out. I believe he also has an open roster spot, so that also works.


I accept this trade b/c I've been looking to trade Barea, just b/c of the length of his contract and the fact I don't see a long-term role for him other than backup PG...it just seems a little long for my blood, but he is a very nice player, so not bad value for others.

Barnes and Hill have talent/rating for now, and I like what Hill can become.

Williams is the big piece I move of course. 2nd pick from this season, big upside, I just don't see a spot for him here when I have Love locked into PF or C, then Hickson and Pekovic and Seraphin all at the PF/C area as well. Williams can rock some SF, but I just wanted to go a different route.

That route is Tyreke. I'm not sure I have a good enough 3pt shooter in the starting backcourt right now, but I'm not necessarily done trading either, and Love is a very fine 3pt guy for me of course. I really like Isaiah's abilities, even though he's a midget, kind of reminds me of Lawson a little.

Anyway, I accept.

[Lucas Lutkus]

T-Wolves gets big talent, Kings gets big depth

Good trade guys

[Deleted]

I accept as well.

Like T-wolves said, Derrick Williams was the 2nd overall pick 2 years ago. While he had an okay season, I do not think he has cracked the surface of his potential. Not sure he will ever be a superstar, but I think he will grow nicely into "the glue guy" role for this team. To start off, we are going to bring Williams off the bench and start Barnes and Frye. This will force Williams to prove that he should be a starter in this league, and hopefully inspire him to play harder.

I really hated that LAL/MIN trade, and am happy to get the two main pieces of that deal I liked; Hill and Barnes. While LAL's GM criticized Barnes, I have not given up on him yet and I think he will get traded this off-season in real life and still produce good numbers. I've liked him as a player and have no qualms about him coming in and starting at SF for me. Hill probably will not play much for my team right now, as we have Cousins, Frye, Birdman, Hayes, and maybe Williams playing the post spots. However, he passed "the eye-test" for me and should be a productive player in the real NBA sometime in the near future. In fact, it would not shock me if the Lakers traded Gasol and made him the starting PF. I really like his potential feel like he could be something, and we will be resigning him by the way.

Barea and Thomas put up similar numbers this year, and while Thomas is younger, I am a big big Barea fan. He's a proven player and contributed greatly to Dallas' championship last year in real life. In my opinion, he may go down as the greatest off the bench scoring guard in the history of the NBA. Every time he plays, all he does is score, score, score, score. I understand his limitations, which is why he will come off the bench.

Lastly, I am going to have the most explosive bench in the league with D.Williams/Birdman/Barea/Hayes/T.Williams/Hill/Gee. I may need to add a shooter, but all of these guys bring soooo much energy to the game. I am really excited about our bench! I'll miss Tyreke, but I think this is a win win for both teams. Best of luck to Thomas, Evans, and most of all Maxiell in Minnesota. Also, nice trading with you T-wolves GM.

[Lucas Lutkus]

What i like about the Kings is that he isn't making a team of good players in the league, but a team of players that he likes.

He wanted Brooks, he got him, he wanted Barnes, he got him.

Both GMs are doing a great job, T-Wolves by trading prospects for good players and Kings by making a team of his favorites players.

[Walt Frazier]

Thanks Lucas. I've also been trading away guys like Ridnour/Barea/Brad Miller and getting players like Vesely/Seraphin who are some of my favorites...more-so Seraphin than Vesely but I like Jan's upside still.

At the same time I'm open to getting a big talent like Tyreke.

If this trade goes through I've also cleared about 7-8 million off my cap through these 4 trades for this season, so I'm pretty happy about that.

[Deleted]

I'm not sure I am trading for my "favorite players", I just think my team is more well rounded than when I took over.

[Bobcats secret assistant]

This deal pisses me off. TWolves gives Brooks to Kings for cheap and then, he makes this trade to get Evans and Thomas in a deal that clearly favors him. Evans is better and much more proven than Williams. As far as i know, Williams could easily be the next Tyrus Thomas. Also, Maxiell is not much worse than Barnes in terms of value, Barea is all negative value and Thomas is only slightly better than Hill in rating but has much more value because of his cheap 3-years contract.

I know TWolves didn't intend to cheat and I am not trying to accuse him or anything but this deal just doesn't look right. It feels like that Bass for Kanter and Burks deal with FA signings involved.

[Deleted]

May 26, 2012 18:27:45 GMT @Bobcats secret assistant said:

This deal pisses me off. TWolves gives Brooks to Kings for cheap and then, he makes this trade to get Evans and Thomas in a deal that clearly favors him. Evans is better and much more proven than Williams. As far as i know, Williams could easily be the next Tyrus Thomas. Also, Maxiell is not much worse than Barnes in terms of value, Barea is all negative value and Thomas is only slightly better than Hill in rating but has much more value because of his cheap 3-years contract.

I know TWolves didn't intend to cheat and I am not trying to accuse him or anything but this deal just doesn't look right. It feels like that Bass for Kanter and Burks deal with FA signings involved.

Yeah you are really really logic with this. Williams maybe a bust, but he might be really really good...you just never know. That was part of my reasoning for doing this trade. Evans doesn't really fit in with my team and is done developing in my opinion. I get a good prospect to replace him in Williams, who may or may not work out, but right now there is a chance.

Overall I love the deal. Barea and Thomas put up similar stats, so that's a wash for right now. So basically the deal is Maxiell and Evans for Williams, Barnes, and Hill. If you want to call Barnes about as good as Maxiell then go for it, but everyone knows that is not true. Maybe Barnes is done, but I think when he gets to another team he'll start playing again. Heck, he's only 32...and Kobe Bryant never has that affect on people? (IE Caron Butler).

So at worst, the deal breaks down like this.

Barea for Thomas

Barnes for Maxiell

Williams and Hill for Evans

For right now it's fair. You cannot gauge potential but I think Thomas, Williams, Hill, and BAREA have the biggest chances to improve. Yes Barea, I looked at his stats early in the year for the T-wolves and he sucked because he was not playing. He finished the season with the same stats and Isaiah Thomas, who everyone loves.

I am REALLY REALLY high on this deal. It was hard to trade Evans for anything worth while and I think I got some good pieces. I wish you, Charlotte, would quit doing shit like this.

[Lucas Lutkus]

May 26, 2012 18:38:37 GMT Vlade Divac said:

I am REALLY REALLY high on this deal. It was hard to trade Evans for anything worth while and I think I got some good pieces. I wish you, Charlotte, would quit doing shit like this.

What? It's not me, i liked this trade like i said, why i would lie? I really have an assistant GM and he didn't liked it...

[Deleted]

May 26, 2012 18:46:09 GMT Lucas Lutkus said:

May 26, 2012 18:38:37 GMT Vlade Divac said:

I am REALLY REALLY high on this deal. It was hard to trade Evans for anything worth while and I think I got some good pieces. I wish you, Charlotte, would quit doing shit like this.

What? It's not me, i liked this trade like i said, why i would lie? I really have an assistant GM and he didn't liked it...

Well tell your assistant GM to make an account then.

[Lucas Lutkus]

May 26, 2012 18:48:30 GMT Vlade Divac said:

May 26, 2012 18:46:09 GMT Lucas Lutkus said:

What? It's not me, i liked this trade like i said, why i would lie? I really have an assistant GM and he didn't liked it...

Well tell your assistant GM to make an account then.

He can't do it for 'Bobcat Report' purposes, in the next days i'm going to reveal who he is and you're all going to know for sure that this is not me...

[Deleted]

May 26, 2012 18:50:59 GMT Lucas Lutkus said:

May 26, 2012 18:48:30 GMT Vlade Divac said:

Well tell your assistant GM to make an account then.

He can't do it for 'Bobcat Report' purposes, in the next days i'm going to reveal who he is and you're all going to know for sure that this is not me...

k

[Walt Frazier]

So Bobcat Assistant GM...if people have different opinions, they are always wrong and you are always right, it seems? I don't even think that a "Secret assistant GM" who is unregistered with this site deserves much of a response from anyone actually in the league, so I'm actually going to stop right there.

I have a lot of counter-arguments but honestly, not going to argue back and forth with someone who isn't even in this league.

[Bobcats secret assistant]

Even with Brooks, this trade will most likely kill the Kings.

1st, Kings have no use for Barnes and Hill because they are expiring and it is not like Kings will compete high on the playoffs this season (specially after trading their best player). Moreover, Hill is not restricted.

2nd, if players are going to be signed on realistic terms Barea is possibly overpaid right now and there is a big chance he will be a 8th-9th man in real life in 2-3 seasons from now. His stats do look alright at the moment but that is because of Rubio's injury. His minutes and stats are likely to go down next season.

3rd, Williams has way too much to prove and it will be hard for him to do it behind Love and Pekovic. I think it is most likely for him to be the next Tyrus Thomas than a future all-star based on his current situation. Williams does have potential but we are talking abou Tyreke Evans here. He is a player who averaged more than 16.5 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 4.5 apg, 1.3 spg and 0.4 bpg in each of his 1st 3 seasons in real life and he is only year and half older than Williams.

[Deleted]

May 26, 2012 19:01:45 GMT @Bobcats secret assistant said:

Even with Brooks, this trade will most likely kill the Kings.

1st, Kings have no use for Barnes and Hill because they are expiring and it is not like Kings will compete high on the playoffs this season (specially after trading their best player). Moreover, Hill is not restricted.

2nd, if players are going to be signed on realistic terms Barea is possibly overpaid right now and there is a big chance he will be a 8th-9th man in real life in 2-3 seasons from now. His stats do look alright at the moment but that is because of Rubio's injury. His minutes and stats are likely to go down next season.

3rd, Williams has way too much to prove and it will be hard for him to do it behind Love and Pekovic. I think it is most likely for him to be the next Tyrus Thomas than a future all-star based on his current situation. Williams does have potential but we are talking abou Tyreke Evans here. He is a player who averaged more than 16.5 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 4.5 apg, 1.3 spg and 0.4 bpg in each of his 1st 3 seasons in real life and he is only year and half older than Williams.

It's going to kill me huh? Hmmm....man that really scares me since THE KINGS HAVE BEEN HORRIBLE SINCE YOU WERE BORN!

#1: I can resign both of them, and I plan too. Maybe I missed the memo, but a team gets a chance to resign players before other teams can bid on them. Regardless of Bird rights, that's the process. If I am wrong about this then correct me but I don't think so, as that's how every single sim league I have been in the past 7 years (including the 1st D5) and the real NBA do it. Plus, using your logic, I should get Barnes back cheap.

#2: I think he is a little underpaid to be honest with you, and I bet the T-wolves trade him...THERE ARE SUCH THINGS AS TRADES! Barea has proven to be a flatout stud and I love having him on my team.

#3: Again trades happen, but I am considering that he may not be a super star. Notice in your statement, the key word is "I think"...but you do not know. Maybe he starts at SF for the Wolves? Maybe they trade him? Maybe they trade Love or Pekovic? Or maybe he beats Pekovic out? The guy was the 2nd overall pick in the draft and has only been in the league one year, hardly a reason to give up on him as he has already shown flashes of being good.

Also, I'd like to add I'm not a big fan of doing this before I do, but Evans played 34 mpg while Williams played 21 mpg. Mathematically, Evans played something like .617 more minutes than Williams.

If you multiple all of Williams' stats by that number and add the number you get to his real life stats, his numbers would looking something like...

14.2 PPG
7.6 RPG
1 APG
.8 BPG
.6 SPG

Those are VERY comparable with Evans. Now, let's talk about Evans. I remember being in sims, the last time I was in them, and everyone was saying after Griffin's injury "Oh Tyreke Evans is the greatest thing since slice bread, forget Blake Griffin." Said the same thing about Curry and Jennings as well. I resisted those temptations and stuck with my boy Blake because I go more off of the eye test than stats. A few years later, look what happened. Evans states have gone WAY down since being a rookie. Playing on a crappy team, that tends to happen....which is why I am not as high on Isaiah Thomas as other people are. Seriously though, you need to get off me because I know exactly what I am doing and am fully aware that Williams might be great or might be a bust. However, I am predicting slightly better numbers (more rebounds for sure) than the ones I showed you could be his numbers if he played 34 mpg. EVEN IF he is Tyrus Thomas, that's still a very good athlete for my team and it's not like Evans is an earth-shattering player. Sometimes, you have to gamble a little in these leagues, and I admit there is some risk to this trade....but just like every other trade.

[Ian Noble]

Before reading these walls of text I have to say that, on the face of it this trade looks heavily favoured for Minnesota. I have no idea why Sacramento is so enthusiastic about trading away so much value for almost nothing.

Now to read the wall.

[Deleted]

May 26, 2012 20:14:10 GMT Ian Noble said:

Before reading these walls of text I have to say that, on the face of it this trade looks heavily favoured for Minnesota. I have no idea why Sacramento is so enthusiastic about trading away so much value for almost nothing.

Now to read the wall.

The Tribe Has Spoken!

[Ian Noble]

In my opinion, he may go down as the greatest off the bench scoring guard in the history of the NBA.

JJ Barea? Really? Don't get me wrong, I think he's a good guy, but the BEST?

So basically we have Sacramento trading three starting-calibre players so that he can have some bench players.

Derrick Williams, the only piece for Sacramento with any potential in this deal. - benched.
Matt Barnes, definitely not someone you trade for so you stick him in your lineup unless you were the Bobcats - starting, for some reason.
JJ Barea, apparently has more value than Isiah Thomas - benched.

Maxiell is admittedly not that great but Tyreke is still a damn good player with a long career ahead of him. Isiah Thomas is one of the more promising players in this year's rookie crop, much more so than say, Derrick Williams even

I so completely put a stamp of reject on this trade, lol.

[Deleted]

May 26, 2012 20:30:10 GMT Ian Noble said:

In my opinion, he may go down as the greatest off the bench scoring guard in the history of the NBA.

JJ Barea? Really? Don't get me wrong, I think he's a good guy, but the BEST?

So basically we have Sacramento trading three starting-calibre players so that he can have some bench players.

Derrick Williams, the only piece for Sacramento with any potential in this deal. - benched.
Matt Barnes, definitely not someone you trade for so you stick him in your lineup unless you were the Bobcats - starting, for some reason.
JJ Barea, apparently has more value than Isiah Thomas - benched.

Maxiell is admittedly not that great but Tyreke is still a damn good player with a long career ahead of him. Isiah Thomas is one of the more promising players in this year's rookie crop, much more so than say, Derrick Williams even

I so completely put a stamp of reject on this trade, lol.

And this is why I quit D5 the first time....oh please bring back Legends and Rim!

[Walt Frazier]

I will say, anyone who thinks Barea is no value, is off their rocker. He's appropriately priced or even cheap for what he brings.

Williams has mega talent, 2nd overall pick for a reason. He did score 27 points twice last season, another 21 and 20 in two other games. Kid has talent. Minny didn't draft him 2nd overall to sit on the bench forever, they'll get him PT or they'll trade him.

Evans, to me, has a lot of ?'s really. Points dropped from 20, to 17.8, to 16.5. Assists dropped from 5.8, to 5.6, to 4.5. Rebounds dropped from 5.3 to 4.8 to 4.6. 3pt shooting was 25 and then 29%...so not good at all...but dropped to 20% this year. He did shoot less but still, regression there. Now, he's definitely got talent and some upside remaining, but I feel like if people are giving Reke the benefit of the doubt, to a point, and still pointing to his potential after 3 years in the league, you can't write off Derrick Williams' upside and potential.

I dunno, Sac and I talked through a couple versions of trades, he brought this to me, and we ended up going for it. I didn't want Williams playing SF for me, Tyreke can be a SG or SF that I need, so it fit our needs.

[Ian Noble]

Well we have three other committee members let's see what they say.

[Walt Frazier]

Yea I know, I didn't even read your post when I was typing that stuff up, it was more directed at an unregistered guest chiming in on a trade which seems pretty silly to me. But still, Barea is a legit player.

I will say, pointing out that Barea is going to the bench, even though he's replacing Isaiah Thomas, who was on the Bench, seems like a low blow? Kings didn't say Barea had more talent than Brooks, but he is a very good guard off the bench.

Anyway, people have differing opinions of course. I'm actually not SUPER high on Evans, just thought it would be fun to have him on the team. I don't own him in any fantasy leagues and haven't owned him anywhere where I could have in the past, so yea, just an upside play for me. His #'s actually worry me, as I said.

Looking forward to the other votes.

[Ian Noble]

I think it's good we have others giving their opinions on deals, certainly the Bobcats Secret Assistant came up with a few points I hadn't thought about which I agree with!

[Walt Frazier]

Interesting to know. I know who the Assistant is btw, former GM who didn't like the league enough to stick around as a GM, but likes the Bobcats GM (which I think a lot of us do, good guy), so he's been helping him.

I just think the dude should register for the site if he's going to be voicing opinions that influence Trade Committee members' votes, that's all.

[Jackie Moon]

I know I'm not a Trade Committee member, but this trade is not that bad. Tyreke has declined in each of his three seasons in the league. For all we know, this player has peaked. Williams has potential, but hasn't been able to show it yet after a rookie season where Minny had a pretty decent big man rotation. I feel like both players are overratted and the pieces being shipped with them are not anything special.

Maxiell is overrated and Thomas did show some promise, but how many wins did that turn into? I feel like his season was a Jeremy Lin-esque one where many teams didnt scout him so he played above his actual standards.

JJ is overpaid, but you could argue the same with Tyson Chandler. Championship winning players ALWAYS get overpayed. Hill has promise, but hasnt shown enough to be considered a huge prospect. I dont see why they would struggle resigning him, as he is a young player looking for PT and he will get that in SAC. Barnes is overrated, but that could be because of his defensive capabilities.

This trade is pretty even in my eyes. Evans has regressed since his rookie year and Williams has yet to get a chance to prove himself on a high level. Neither player is the best player on their team. (I see Cousins as a better player than Evans). And this trade doesnt hurt any team cap wise/talent wise/future wise.

[Lucas Lutkus]

I think that both teams get what they want...

MIN gets instant power with Evans, SAC gets Derrick Williams who can improve in the future and can form one of the best duos of the league with DeMarcus Cousins.

I think that Thomas is better and younger than Barea and there the T-Wolves gets the better deal.

But Jordan Hill and Matt Barnes are way better than Jason Maxiel, plus, they're expiring, Kings gets better here.

I think that both teams gets what they want here.

MIN gets a all star SG and a promising PG, SAC gets one of the most promising PFs in the league to combine with DeMarcus Cousins along with expiring contracts that can contribute with the team in this season.

And as you two guys said, what a deal! Bringing a lot of discussion here hahaha

[Rubén Magnano]

May 26, 2012 20:47:00 GMT Walt Frazier said:

Interesting to know. I know who the Assistant is btw, former GM who didn't like the league enough to stick around as a GM, but likes the Bobcats GM (which I think a lot of us do, good guy), so he's been helping him.

I just think the dude should register for the site if he's going to be voicing opinions that influence Trade Committee members' votes, that's all.

There, I registered.

I was pissed off before not because of the trade but because I felt like you negotiated this trade with Kings while he was offering for Brooks. I assume that because Bobcats GM told me that Kings had a good offer for Thomas that he was going to accept if he signed Brooks. Maybe, Kings was a good place for Brooks and i am sure you did not intend to take advantage of the situation because I know you are a great person but I think that given the circumstances it would have been better if you gave Brooks' representation to Graham.

I am not pissed anymore and i feel like talking about the deal was probably not my best call because Twolves GM is a great guy and i want him and his team to do well.

About me not liking the league enough to stick around as a GM, that is not entirely true. Sure, there are things I don't like (like not having restricted FAs) but in general, I believe this is the best sim league available at the moment on the Internet. I quit the Clippers because I felt like I didn't have the time I needed to take them where I wanted them to be. I re-joined as Bobcats Assistant because Bobcats GM is a great committed guy and I want to help him the best way I can. I know this post is absolutely out of topic and I am sorry for that but I needed to answer the question. I really don’t want TWolves GM to be mad at me because I appreciate him a lot.

[Lucas Lutkus]

May 26, 2012 20:47:00 GMT Walt Frazier said:

but likes the Bobcats GM (which I think a lot of us do, good guy), so he's been helping him. .

Thanks haha

[Walt Frazier]

My bad on the reasonings to your quitting the league and such, I thought you had mentioned just not liking the league b/c of that RFA stuff plus some other things, but I know you are always a busy guy, so I'm sure that did play a factor as well.

As for this trade in relation to the Aaron Brooks thing, you are WAAAAY off base. I could send you the entire AIM convo we've had, only today, where this trade was discussed. I've never talked to Kings GM before about a deal like this.

There's really no "maybe" about the Brooks thing. You guys (Bobcats) have/had:

79 Kirk Hinrich
81 Kemba Walker
77 Andre Miller

and then even
74 Nick Young
73 Reggie Williams

The first 3 players probably should all be only PGs, though Hinrich can make due at SG. Still, Aaron should be a PG as well, as he's 6'0" even. Your Guard depth was pretty good already, and Brooks would have been the 3rd best player, barely better than Andre Miller.

Kings had...trying to remember but...

He was starting
76 Isaiah Thomas & 78 Marcus Thornton
his Bench guards were 75/74 rating guys, like Donte Green and Terrence Williams (though both of them are probably better SF's).

Aaron is able to come in to SacTown and be the best (tied for best) player in the backcourt...he's 3rd best in Charlotte.

There was really no question.

I dunno why you guys...well mainly you there Marco, are trying to make this some conspiracy. It's pretty ridiculous.

[Deleted]

May 26, 2012 22:33:15 GMT Rubén Magnano said:

May 26, 2012 20:47:00 GMT Walt Frazier said:

Interesting to know. I know who the Assistant is btw, former GM who didn't like the league enough to stick around as a GM, but likes the Bobcats GM (which I think a lot of us do, good guy), so he's been helping him.

I just think the dude should register for the site if he's going to be voicing opinions that influence Trade Committee members' votes, that's all.

There, I registered.

I was pissed off before not because of the trade but because I felt like you negotiated this trade with Kings while he was offering for Brooks. I assume that because Bobcats GM told me that Kings had a good offer for Thomas that he was going to accept if he signed Brooks. Maybe, Kings was a good place for Brooks and i am sure you did not intend to take advantage of the situation because I know you are a great person but I think that given the circumstances it would have been better if you gave Brooks' representation to Graham.

I am not pissed anymore and i feel like talking about the deal was probably not my best call because Twolves GM is a great guy and i want him and his team to do well.

About me not liking the league enough to stick around as a GM, that is not entirely true. Sure, there are things I don't like (like not having restricted FAs) but in general, I believe this is the best sim league available at the moment on the Internet. I quit the Clippers because I felt like I didn't have the time I needed to take them where I wanted them to be. I re-joined as Bobcats Assistant because Bobcats GM is a great committed guy and I want to help him the best way I can. I know this post is absolutely out of topic and I am sorry for that but I needed to answer the question. I really don’t want TWolves GM to be mad at me because I appreciate him a lot.

#1 You are full of shit, why would I cheat in a sim league? It would defeat the point of doing a sim league. Why would I waste mine and everybody elses time by cheating? I could just play NBA Live and cheat the computer?

And if you question my credentials, let me show you some of my teams.

rimrocker13.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=miami&thread=5796&page=1

ragas2134.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=bobcats&thread=2684&page=1

PS. I really miss these leagues, oh and I was a staff member in both leagues....man!

#2 NO ONE has even read, much less refuted, my facts. I feel as though the fix in for me and I am not sure why. I have been accused of cheating and am basically being told I am a crappy GM. As a result, here is what I say to the rest of the TC, Miami, Chicago, and whoever else: If you reject this trade I am quitting the league. You see my credentials and I'll bet them on this trade. Honestly, I am having a hard hard time trading, and this will really give me more flexibility moving forward. You act like Tyree is a stud, yet I am still waiting for an offer that is better than this one.