Point Guard Ratings

[Andrei Kirilenko]

Hi all,

I had some time this evening, so I threw together a summary of current point guard ratings. These rankings are based on different dimensions of Hollinger's NBA Player Statistics.

Some Notes:
- I only included starting NBA PGs here (i.e. Isaiah Thomas isn't included)
- The top 10 is clearly defined. These guys are the top 10 in almost every relevant category (PER, VA, EWR, etc.)
- I only ranked the top 20. I think players 21-30 are basically a wash
- I've compared the D5 rating to a 'Group Rating' based on my color coded groups. This is only a rough guideline of suggested increase/decrease (I'm not claiming everyone in a group should be rated exactly the same- just similar).
- The highlighted green/red differences are when the variance is >3 rating points. These are the players we should perhaps target for a rating change (although this might not apply in all cases due to situational factors)

[Brian Scalabrine]

I think Jeff Teague should be a little lower and Parker like 5 spots higher. Otherwise I pretty much fully agree

[Walt Frazier]

Something about this feels pretty wrong to me personally.

50.5 / 88.0 / 38.0 - 17.5p / 4.6r / 9.7a / 1.9s / 0.2b / 2.0 TO
vs
48.5 / 92.5 / 39.1 - 23.9p / 5.3r / 7.6a / 2.0s / 0.2b / 3.3 TO
vs
47.8 / 80.9 / 34.1 - 26.9p / 5.6r / 6.9a / 1.9s / 0.0b / 4.0 TO


Each have their positives and negatives, but I'd rather have the 1st PG than the 3rd by a significant margin. Better FG, FT, 3PT%, much better decision maker by the looks of the A-TO ratios.

Yet, they are to be equals in your spreadsheet.

Granted, the 3rd guy's (Westbrook) rating will be boosted due to athletic advantages, but the 1st guy (CP3) IMO is still a better player in a lot of areas. (Curry is the 2nd guy, for the record). I will grant you CP3 is playing about 4mpg more than Westbrook, but the %'s and A/TO theoretically won't change. Westbrook is a better rebounder and slightly better steals, worse blocks. The 3pt% and FT% are quite significant, as is the O-Aware and passing/dribbling advantages to CP3.


I just highlighted those top 3 but I see some other issues.

What I do like, however, are a couple of the things that were highlighted - Wall, Lillard, Teague, and Lowry should all get increases. So should Knight and Collison (a few of these have been brought up already though...almost all of them actually). I disagree with the #'s chosen though. And I think our best PG should be higher than a 90 (going backward there for a second). 85 is too high for Teague. 77 is a bit high for Cole. 82 is too low for Parker. I don't agree Dragic needs a decrease. 80 for Rondo is too low. He's one of the best rebounders in the NBA, same with passing and ballhandling and O-Aware skills.

These are just my opinions, but I am basing on numbers just as you are, just different numbers.

For what it's worth, another overall ranking we could look at is Fantasy Rank. Like it or not, it values different stats higher and lower, and combines them all for an overall rank. Here are the PG rankgs so far this season, from Yahoo.

Curry
CP3
Lillard
Westbrook
Kyrie
Lowry
Wall
(To be fair, all of the above are top 20 NBA players in Fantasy)
Jrue
Teague
Conley
Beverley (bit of an outlier, the 3's, rebounds, steals, very low TO's are what drives him so high)
Knight
Deron
Collison
Bledsoe
Monta
Dragic
Kemba
Lawson


To be clear, I'm not saying this ranking is better, or worse, but it's another thing to look at.

[Jeremiah Hill]

The problem with Hollinger's rating is that it overvalues points and rebounds and undervalues assists and turnovers. It's not weighted for each position as far as I know. I think the way we do it already is the best way. You have people who vote based on advanced stats, you have guys that watch a few games and do the eye test, you have guys that go off of just regular old stats.

I think most of us use a combination of these with certain types weighted for each individual voter.

Victor Oladipo isn't really a PG, even if he's playing it. Although it does agree with my opinion to lower Rubio by a crap load. Just use this as evidence for your particular vote. Make sure to bring it up. I know I've brought some really interesting stats to support my arguments. You can too. I have sort of a tiered system I use (In my sig) and I base my ratings a bit more weighted towards how good their team is. For example, when they trade Pekovic and Wiggins is averaging 19ppg (IRL) I'd still be against his current rating because he's be doing it at like 25% FG and they would be one of the worst teams in a while.

[Deleted]

I love the fact that I have two elite PGs!

[Charles Barkley]

We have this problem at every position. Granted, the PG position is most obvious when you have guys at 82 or 84 that are playing like 90's.

I agree with most of it, except it is just going off of this season, if I read it correctly. You have guys in there that should be higher, and you have guys that should be lower. But there are more reasons behind the argument to the contrary that aren't just this season's stats.

The top 10 I agree with, but as you go lower on the table you have a lot of increases and decreases suggested. And there are really solid arguments to the contrary of those. The perfect example is Derrick Rose. He doesn't deserve a 13 point decrease, although he isn't playing like a 93, and there are obvious reasons as to why. Then there's a suggested decrease for MCW who has been playing out of his mind, imo. And Oladipo who is stuck playing the PG when he is really a SG. And Dragic who just suffers from the 3 guard rotation in PHX. Rubio who is just stuck playing on a shitty team.

All in all, this is a good chart, but it shouldn't be the end all be all in PG ratings, and I hope everyone who looks at it can think about it, form an opinion, and make up their own mind based off of their own thinking, not just a chart that says what each player should be rated. I like our system we have; there are a lot of different view points and different values that go into each rating. And I hope that this chart doesn't change things.