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Post by Walt Frazier on Dec 31, 2014 1:37:56 GMT
I'm all for numbers. But the real life numbers are really all we need. The D5 numbers are honestly irrelevant. IMO, it is relevant. It is good to see if the ratings we are putting is really simulating what he is doing IRL.  But again, team situations and the way they are used can be (and often is) so incredibly different, that alone makes it irrelevant. Add on the fact, as already stated, that you are using his stats as a 76 rated Jimmy Butler when everyone agrees he's at least an 80+ Jimmy Butler now, so it's quite obvious he's not going to be performing the same. Plus he's probably not someone's top player as only a 76, and his minutes are probably down, also affecting the stats which are irrelevant in the first place. It is nice to see when players are close, after their ratings have already been fixed, but if they haven't been touched or if they have made a big improvement IRL but we haven't done that new rating yet, it should be quite obvious that their stats will be very different. It's just not really something worth wasting your time over IMHO. |
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Post by Charles Barkley on Dec 31, 2014 1:38:09 GMT
I'm all for numbers. But the real life numbers are really all we need. The D5 numbers are honestly irrelevant. IMO, it is relevant. It is good to see if the ratings we are putting is really simulating what he is doing IRL. In game, they are in different situations, on different teams in a 9 year old engine. They won't always perform to their RL stats, its impossible to make it so that every player does. The fact that we get close on most is amazing in and of it self. |
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Dec 31, 2014 1:51:34 GMT
IMO, it is relevant. It is good to see if the ratings we are putting is really simulating what he is doing IRL. But again, team situations and the way they are used can be (and often is) so incredibly different, that alone makes it irrelevant. Add on the fact, as already stated, that you are using his stats as a 76 rated Jimmy Butler when everyone agrees he's at least an 80+ Jimmy Butler now, so it's quite obvious he's not going to be performing the same. Plus he's probably not someone's top player as only a 76, and his minutes are probably down, also affecting the stats which are irrelevant in the first place. It is nice to see when players are close, after their ratings have already been fixed, but if they haven't been touched or if they have made a big improvement IRL but we haven't done that new rating yet, it should be quite obvious that their stats will be very different. It's just not really something worth wasting your time over IMHO. I know that sir and I also recognize those things. He was rated 76 in 13-14 and that is his production. So it does not matter if everyone recognize that he is 80+ because he is still a 76 and he is still producing as 76. We can never be accurate with ratings and of course with team situation, they can never produce the same number IRL but using there numbers with their current ratings should help in determining their best rating. We are trying to simulate what they are doing IRL and you are not in favor of using there D5 production as basis? Thats quite ironic. When I use D5 numbers, I am only using it as a basis it is not my intention to say that there is a mistake with the rating. |
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Post by Walt Frazier on Dec 31, 2014 2:00:06 GMT
That's quite right, I am 100% about their real life #'s and making their rating in this game most closely reflect their real-life game. I generally do not care how they are doing in D5. There are too many factors. If we make their ratings reflect real-life, that's all I really care about. This league has always been based on Real-Life and that's what I focus on. The sim engine will take care of the rest, or at least somewhat closely.
I just don't want you or anyone else using D5 #'s for anything significant. I guess you could maybe use them to just notice/identify that a guy may be rated too low, but most of us can see that just by looking at the rating and their real-life stats.
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Dec 31, 2014 2:05:36 GMT
That's quite right, I am 100% about their real life #'s and making their rating in this game most closely reflect their real-life game. I generally do not care how they are doing in D5. There are too many factors. If we make their ratings reflect real-life, that's all I really care about. This league has always been based on Real-Life and that's what I focus on. The sim engine will take care of the rest, or at least somewhat closely. I just don't want you or anyone else using D5 #'s for anything significant. I guess you could maybe use them to just notice/identify that a guy may be rated too low, but most of us can see that just by looking at the rating and their real-life stats. Sorry sir, but I care Unless you have the power as the main RC to stop me from using it, I will still use it. And again, I am just using it as a basis of comparison to make my rating suggestion, and it seems I am the only one using it so dont you worry. hehe |
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Post by Walt Frazier on Dec 31, 2014 2:40:53 GMT
Haha, I'm not telling you that you are or are not allowed to use these numbers, but no one else is using them for a reason.
Anyway, my point was more a cautionary tale about not using them to justify a new rating. If I have an 82 rated SG/SF but I also have an 83 rated SG and an 84 rated SF, and that 82 rated SG/SF sits on the bench a lot, his #'s are not going to be nearly as good as real life.
It should also be incredibly obvious, to the point that it's not even worth posting (to me and basically everyone else here), that a player with a 76 rating who we all think should be an 80, 82, or 85, is not putting up as good of #'s with his 76 rating as he would if he was at the 80, 82, or 85 rating we all think he should be at. I think you are just wasting your time, that's all. Feel free to continue to do so, but they should not be a legitimate factor for anyone. The mandate handed down from Ian for the life of this league is that we base on Real Life #'s, not D5 #'s.
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Post by Charles Barkley on Dec 31, 2014 2:56:15 GMT
But again, team situations and the way they are used can be (and often is) so incredibly different, that alone makes it irrelevant. Add on the fact, as already stated, that you are using his stats as a 76 rated Jimmy Butler when everyone agrees he's at least an 80+ Jimmy Butler now, so it's quite obvious he's not going to be performing the same. Plus he's probably not someone's top player as only a 76, and his minutes are probably down, also affecting the stats which are irrelevant in the first place. It is nice to see when players are close, after their ratings have already been fixed, but if they haven't been touched or if they have made a big improvement IRL but we haven't done that new rating yet, it should be quite obvious that their stats will be very different. It's just not really something worth wasting your time over IMHO. I know that sir and I also recognize those things. He was rated 76 in 13-14 and that is his production. So it does not matter if everyone recognize that he is 80+ because he is still a 76 and he is still producing as 76. We can never be accurate with ratings and of course with team situation, they can never produce the same number IRL but using there numbers with their current ratings should help in determining their best rating. We are trying to simulate what they are doing IRL and you are not in favor of using there D5 production as basis? Thats quite ironic. When I use D5 numbers, I am only using it as a basis it is not my intention to say that there is a mistake with the rating. If you saw what his attributes were in 13-14 as a 75, you would know why his stats didn't reflect his RL production. Jimmy Butler's attributes were far from what his RL strengths and weakenesses are. We went in, and overhauled him. He as a 76 is a lot different than what he was as a 75, and I guarantee that with his new rating, his stats in game will better reflect his RL production. |
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Dec 31, 2014 2:57:13 GMT
Haha, I'm not telling you that you are or are not allowed to use these numbers, but no one else is using them for a reason. Anyway, my point was more a cautionary tale about not using them to justify a new rating. If I have an 82 rated SG/SF but I also have an 83 rated SG and an 84 rated SF, and that 82 rated SG/SF sits on the bench a lot, his #'s are not going to be nearly as good as real life. It should also be incredibly obvious, to the point that it's not even worth posting (to me and basically everyone else here), that a player with a 76 rating who we all think should be an 80, 82, or 85, is not putting up as good of #'s with his 76 rating as he would if he was at the 80, 82, or 85 rating we all think he should be at. I think you are just wasting your time, that's all. Feel free to continue to do so, but they should not be a legitimate factor for anyone. The mandate handed down from Ian for the life of this league is that we base on Real Life #'s, not D5 #'s. I recognize what you are saying. hehe. I will still use it |
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Dec 31, 2014 12:43:39 GMT
Haha, I'm not telling you that you are or are not allowed to use these numbers, but no one else is using them for a reason. Anyway, my point was more a cautionary tale about not using them to justify a new rating. If I have an 82 rated SG/SF but I also have an 83 rated SG and an 84 rated SF, and that 82 rated SG/SF sits on the bench a lot, his #'s are not going to be nearly as good as real life. It should also be incredibly obvious, to the point that it's not even worth posting (to me and basically everyone else here), that a player with a 76 rating who we all think should be an 80, 82, or 85, is not putting up as good of #'s with his 76 rating as he would if he was at the 80, 82, or 85 rating we all think he should be at. I think you are just wasting your time, that's all. Feel free to continue to do so, but they should not be a legitimate factor for anyone. The mandate handed down from Ian for the life of this league is that we base on Real Life #'s, not D5 #'s. I recognize what you are saying. hehe. I will still use it "I completely know that you're right but I'm just gonna keep being stupid" |
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Dec 31, 2014 13:30:09 GMT
I recognize what you are saying. hehe. I will still use it "I completely know that you're right but I'm just gonna keep being stupid" What he said did not mean that I am wrong. |
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838 
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Jan 2, 2015 17:20:01 GMT
I will go with an 82. Based on the ratings of players in the league, an 85 puts Butler pretty close to being a top rated player. Butler has been playing like crazy, but his relevance has only been short-lived. Plays like this through the entire season, then I think he may need to be adjusted again.
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Post by Kareem Abdul-Jabbar on Jan 20, 2015 1:16:15 GMT
85 ^^
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 30, 2024 10:44:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2015 1:21:38 GMT
85
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 20, 2015 1:31:51 GMT
This thread is closed. I believe Jimmy went up to an 83.
Please make a new thread later in the season if you feel he deserves it. We have enough work w/o updating players every 2 weeks! lol
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 30, 2024 10:44:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2015 2:30:51 GMT
Jimmy Butler is the best guard in the East, he's an All-Star for sure. The kid has crazy stamina too and it should be reflected in the rankings. Led the league in minutes last year and this year so far. And he just keep producing. I own him in a lot of leagues and for a volume shooter he converts very well, while filling up the stat sheet. I'd rank him higher than 83 tbh, he's the franchise's best at this point an 87.
Edit: Sorry didn't see that the thread was closed just saw that it was recently replied to.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jan 20, 2015 2:44:34 GMT
Jimmy Butler is the best guard in the East, he's an All-Star for sure. The kid has crazy stamina too and it should be reflected in the rankings. Led the league in minutes last year and this year so far. And he just keep producing. I own him in a lot of leagues and for a volume shooter he converts very well, while filling up the stat sheet. I'd rank him higher than 83 tbh, he's the franchise's best at this point an 87. Edit: Sorry didn't see that the thread was closed just saw that it was recently replied to. I like Jimmy quite a lot too. Let's just wait for another increase thread until later in the season. Like, April or something. That's what a lot of the people who went lower on Jimmy sort of wanted to do anyway, see it for longer. So yea, I don't disagree with anything you just said but, we'll just wait a bit to upgrade him again. |
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