James Harden

[Alex English]

Current Rating: 87
Suggested Rating: 93

I'm not really sure when or why Harden was dropped 1 point from an 88 to an 87, seems kinda pointless to me. But anyway...

Harden is a bona fide superstar and I think it's time he is rated as such. In his two plus years in Houston the Rockets have a record of 104-64 (61.9%) with him in the lineup and he's put up some ridiculous numbers. These are his stats as a Rocket:

38.1 mpg, 25.6 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 6.0 apg, 1.7 spg, 0.5 bpg, 60.5 TS%, 23.4 PER

This year he has also raised his game to Lebron like levels:

37.3 mpg, 25.2 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 6.8 apg, 1.9 spg, 1.1 bpg, 57.7 TS%, 25.0 PER

The only knock there has been against him was his lack of effort on defense, but his time with team USA this past summer seems to have opened his eyes to that end of the floor. His career defensive rating is 106, but has been at 98 to start the year.

He is also the primary playmaker on the Rockets now with Lin gone and is undoubtedly the franchise player with Dwight as his #2. Compare him with any other 90+ rated player and he will match up with their quality of play and team success.

[Brian Scalabrine]

Harden is a really good player and I think you're right he is a superstar but no way is he a 93. That's a higher rating than most people have given anthony davis and given Harden's defensive struggles I can't justify a rating that high. I understand that Harden has improved defensively this year, his offense was always amazing, but watching more rocket games than I usually do this year, I have a couple of player on my fantasy team, he is still not a plus defender.

I would give him a 90. His offense is clearly elite and he has improved defensively but to get into the low to mid 90's I think you have to be a stud on both ends of the floor and at this point PG isn't that, a stud at defense.

[Alex English]

I think most people agree Anthony Davis is on track for 95+ but he is still so young and hasn't really accomplished anything yet. His 90-92 ratings are conservative.

But Harden is coming up on 200 games of playing at this level and with guys like CP3 at 94, Kobe at 93, Melo at 92, and Wade at 90 I think Harden easily belongs in that group. Also Kobe needs a huge decrease.

[Brian Scalabrine]

Agreed Kobe needs a decrease (is there a brick rating? he deserves a 99 there), but guys like CP3 are 2 way studs since he is a beast defensively I would just argue he is more like Melo, a 1 way superstar, but Melo is still a little better defender, especially since he can kinda hold his own against bigs which is why I would put Harden a little lower

[Walt Frazier]

I'll go 91 for Harden I think! The defensive improvement had better hold up though! That's the majority of my rating increase right now, but I do give respect for his even further improved Offensive #'s.

[Andrei Kirilenko]

I'm not buying into any sort of defensive improvement. He might have been trying harder for Team USA, but he definitely isn't doing that on the Rockets. Until this guy starts playing defense, he's an 87 in my books.

[Ian Noble]

I have difficulty saying Harden is more than an 89. In a fantasy draft I would take Steph Curry or Anthony Davis over him.

Harden has the team around him too, but the Rockets went out in the first round of the playoffs last year and from what I saw they did not look anywhere near as convincing as Portland did in that series.

I'm also reluctant to keep getting hung up on what it takes for a player to breach the 89 mark and make their way into the 90 rating range, which is what it seems this thread might do, but I don't feel like Harden has yet done enough to get into that group.

[Deleted]

I agree with Alex that guys like Kobe, Wade, CP3, etc. needed to be lowered but several wrongs do not make a right. Ian's explanation mirrors my thoughts but I also think he should be in the 89/90 range (I will say 90) because he doesn't play any defense.

[Walt Frazier]

Dec 1, 2014 12:32:35 GMT Andrei Kirilenko said:

I'm not buying into any sort of defensive improvement. He might have been trying harder for Team USA, but he definitely isn't doing that on the Rockets. Until this guy starts playing defense, he's an 87 in my books.

Even if you don't buy the D improvement, you are comfortable completely ignoring the O improvement?

In one less mpg, he is grabbing almost 1.5 more rebounds, almost 1 more assist, increased steals, more than doubled his blocks?! That means nothing? I think he's a classic 89 for you Barber, surprised to see you keep him at an 87. Interesting.

[Jeremiah Hill]

Dec 1, 2014 1:57:56 GMT Alex English said:

I think most people agree Anthony Davis is on track for 95+ but he is still so young and hasn't really accomplished anything yet. His 90-92 ratings are conservative.

But Harden is coming up on 200 games of playing at this level and with guys like CP3 at 94, Kobe at 93, Melo at 92, and Wade at 90 I think Harden easily belongs in that group. Also Kobe needs a huge decrease.

Well it looks ridiculous because D-Wade and Kobe shouldn't be above a freaking 90. Lower them and it makes a little more sense. I vote no change.

[Jeremiah Hill]

Actually piggyback on my last post. We can take Kobe and Wade down to 86's and Harden up to 89.

[John Stockton]

Harden is playing amazing offensively and has improved in defense. 91 this guys too good and dominant to be under a 90

[Ian Noble]

Dec 1, 2014 15:39:00 GMT Walt Frazier said:

Dec 1, 2014 12:32:35 GMT Andrei Kirilenko said:

I'm not buying into any sort of defensive improvement. He might have been trying harder for Team USA, but he definitely isn't doing that on the Rockets. Until this guy starts playing defense, he's an 87 in my books.

Even if you don't buy the D improvement, you are comfortable completely ignoring the O improvement?

In one less mpg, he is grabbing almost 1.5 more rebounds, almost 1 more assist, increased steals, more than doubled his blocks?! That means nothing? I think he's a classic 89 for you Barber, surprised to see you keep him at an 87. Interesting.

If Josh had his way, no player would be rated above 87 and rookies would be capped at 70

[Clyde Drexler]

I'll give Harden an 89. I suppose it's sort of impressive that he's also putting up 6.7 assists and 6.2 rebounds per night, but I wouldn't bump him past 90.

[Clyde Drexler]

On a side note, that Harden for Iggy swap that the old Pelicans/Hornets GM made looks butt ugly right about now.

[Brian Scalabrine]

God damn it Jackie moon

[James Kay]

(91) -

Harden’s shown at the least, a slight defensive improvement.

He’s also increased his rebounding (perhaps a result of Howard’s extended absence) and his assists (despite Howard’s extended absence).

The Rockets are also 13-4 in the West (despite Howard's absence)

Only reason he's not higher is because I think his style of play is too dependent on drawing fouls that are harder to come by in the post-season.

[Alex English]

Dec 3, 2014 18:31:51 GMT Clyde Drexler said:

On a side note, that Harden for Iggy swap that the old Pelicans/Hornets GM made looks butt ugly right about now.

My Iggy for Harden trade and #7 pick for Paul George trade is basically why my team doesn't suck. Also who wants to trade their All-Star calibre power forward for Ersan Ilyasova?

[Alex English]

Harden has recently had a 44 point game and a triple double. He now leads the league in scoring and took the Rockets to an 8-3 record with Dwight out and Tarik Black as his starting center. He is ticking all the boxes of being a superstar.

Any other opinions? Here is what we have so far:

93, 91, 91, 91, 90, 90, 89, 89, 89, 87 = 90

So Harden is set for a 90.

[Jeremiah Hill]

Dec 14, 2014 16:37:22 GMT Alex English said:

Harden has recently had a 44 point game and a triple double. He now leads the league in scoring and took the Rockets to an 8-3 record with Dwight out and Tarik Black as his starting center. He is ticking all the boxes of being a superstar.

Any other opinions? Here is what we have so far:

93, 91, 91, 91, 90, 90, 89, 89, 89, 87 = 90

So Harden is set for a 90.

Fine, as long as we can agree to lower him down to a 80 during the playoffs where just throwing your body into people like a bitch stops working.

[Hanamichi Sakuragi]

that 87 is actually low for his numbers in 2014 season..

so 92 for me

[Deleted]

Jackie Moon annoyed the piss out of me!

[Charles Barkley]

Better than Westbrook right now, but I would say they both should be rated the same but both do different things extremely well.

92

I still think DeMar is just as good as Harden. 

[Alex English]

Bump

93, 92, 92, 91, 91, 91, 90, 90, 89, 89, 89, 87 = 90

Harden still gets a 90

[Alex English]

Bump.

Who is this even being bumped for? I assume it's Walt who implements rating updates now?

[Walt Frazier]

I'm the head of the RC and I've been working tonight on accumulating all the ratings over the last few months. I think I am done with that as of this Harden post!

So, time to organize things and then I'll start taking care of the egregious ones first, working my way down to the smaller changes.