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Post by Jeremiah Hill on May 31, 2014 0:26:43 GMT
Current Rating: 85 Suggested Rating: 82 Basketball Reference Kyrie IrvingKyrie Irving has regressed in some pretty important statistics. He reduced his turnovers a bit which is nice but I don't really see anything different between him and Lillard other than Irving has a better handle and Lillard has actually had success in games that people actually care about. Other players: 86 Tony Parker The fact that Parker is only a smidge above Kyrie is a joke, I know some of that is 3pt shooting and that's fine. These are all guys I'd put right at Irvings level or a little better or worse, that he is so much higher than them is just ridiculous. 82 Damien Lillard 78 Kyle Lowry 84 John Wall 79 Jeff Teague 83 Jrue Holiday 82 Mike Conley |
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Nov 30, 2024 10:58:19 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2014 3:27:01 GMT
Damian Lillard is clearly better than any of those guys.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on May 31, 2014 3:57:50 GMT
Damian Lillard is clearly better than any of those guys. No he's not. A better scorer maybe, but that's it. |
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on May 31, 2014 4:14:15 GMT
Damian Lillard is clearly better than any of those guys. John Wall is better than both of them. |
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Nov 30, 2024 10:58:19 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2014 7:12:06 GMT
Damian Lillard is clearly better than any of those guys. John Wall is better than both of them. Yeah Wall might be on the same level....maybe even better given his 8.8 APG, but the others are garbage compared to Lillard. |
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on May 31, 2014 18:03:32 GMT
Honestly I think people are too hard on Kryie. He obviously didn't have a good year, but part of that was playing with an awful coach and on a roster really badly put together. Here are the stats for Kryie and Lillard
Kryie/Lillard
Ppg: 20.8/20.7
Apg: 6.1/5.6
Rpg: 3.6/3.5
Stl: 1.5/0.8
Fg%: 43%/42.4%
3fg%: 35.6%/ 39.4%
TS%: 53.3%/ 56.8%
Per: 20.1/18.6
Win Shares: 6.7/ 9.6
View these how you will but the things that stand out to me is that their counting stats are remarkably similar as Kyrie only has a small advantage in assists though a larger advantage in steals, while Lillard is more efficient from 3 which shows in his TS% though not overwhelmingly so. The advanced stats seems to disagree, and a reason I'd like to point out that Kryie's win shares are so bad is that he was on a terrible team, though only partially. Both of these guys are awful defenders so i think that can be a push, and also we should give credit to Lillard for making the playoffs though he also has superior teammates. What these stats show me is that Lillard is the superior player but only somewhat so. I gave Lillard a 85 so Im going 84 for Kyrie.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on May 31, 2014 18:53:30 GMT
Honestly I think people are too hard on Kryie. He obviously didn't have a good year, but part of that was playing with an awful coach and on a roster really badly put together. Here are the stats for Kryie and Lillard Kryie/Lillard Ppg: 20.8/20.7 Apg: 6.1/5.6 Rpg: 3.6/3.5 Stl: 1.5/0.8 Fg%: 43%/42.4% 3fg%: 35.6%/ 39.4% TS%: 53.3%/ 56.8% Per: 20.1/18.6 Win Shares: 6.7/ 9.6 View these how you will but the things that stand out to me is that their counting stats are remarkably similar as Kyrie only has a small advantage in assists though a larger advantage in steals, while Lillard is more efficient from 3 which shows in his TS% though not overwhelmingly so. The advanced stats seems to disagree, and a reason I'd like to point out that Kryie's win shares are so bad is that he was on a terrible team, though only partially. Both of these guys are awful defenders so i think that can be a push, and also we should give credit to Lillard for making the playoffs though he also has superior teammates. What these stats show me is that Lillard is the superior player but only somewhat so. I gave Lillard a 85 so Im going 84 for Kyrie. I think if you switched Lillard and Kyrie they both would have gotten the same results for their teams. IE Lillard would be a loser on the Cavs and Kyrie would be a 2nd round PG. |
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on May 31, 2014 19:08:59 GMT
Jeremiah I am inclined to agree which is why I only have a 1 point difference.
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Post by Alex English on May 31, 2014 19:19:12 GMT
How do we have one thread to raise Lillard and one to lower Kyrie. That makes no sense. I think if you switched Lillard and Kyrie they both would have gotten the same results for their teams. IE Lillard would be a loser on the Cavs and Kyrie would be a 2nd round PG. I completely agree. This was also the worst season of Kyrie's short career, and by looking at Brian's comparison you see he still matched Lillard. These are his stats for his first two years: 20.6 ppg, 5.7 apg, 3.7 rpg, 1.3 spg, 45.9 FG%, 39.4 3P%, 86.2 FT%, 21.4 PER After last season he deserved every bit of his 85 rating. He carried a shitty Cavs team with great production and he was efficient too. Everybody was ready to declare him as a superstar. This season he had to deal with the clusterfuck of the Cavs management along with an idiot coach. He is in one of the worst situations in the league rivaled by only the Bucks and the Kings. He is also still only 22 years old. If he plays poorly again next season then I think we can look at decreasing him. |
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Jun 2, 2014 13:43:24 GMT
I put Lillard at an 83, so I'll rate Irving an 82
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jun 3, 2014 1:28:12 GMT
I'm hesitant to lower Kyrie yet, he had an elite-type season last year and he is very young.
My vote is 85 right now, I'm a fan of his, but he will need to get back to his high-end game next year or a decrease is coming!
85 for now.
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Jun 3, 2014 2:25:27 GMT
We jumped the gun in raising Kyrie  |
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jun 3, 2014 2:35:58 GMT
We jumped the gun in raising Kyrie Disagree...23p/6a/4r with 1.5 steals a game backed by a .452/.391/.855 % line is damn good. |
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Post by Charles Barkley on Jun 3, 2014 2:58:00 GMT
We jumped the gun in raising Kyrie Disagree...23p/6a/4r with 1.5 steals a game backed by a .452/.391/.855 % line is damn good. Anyone looks good with the stats Walt. I'm not accusing you of not watching the Cavs, because no one really does. But if you watch him play, he isn't any better than Jack or Waiter. This year, it could be a major product of the offensive system Mike Brown ran which is the equivalent to the offensive system I used to run in the park when I was 12. I'm not a Kyrie fan. His stats say he is an 83-85, I'm not going to argue it. I'm just point out that, for the Cavs, Kyrie makes no one else on his team better, which, in my opinion, is the epitome of a true star. |
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Post by Walt Frazier on Jun 3, 2014 4:04:19 GMT
Disagree...23p/6a/4r with 1.5 steals a game backed by a .452/.391/.855 % line is damn good. Anyone looks good with the stats Walt. I'm not accusing you of not watching the Cavs, because no one really does. But if you watch him play, he isn't any better than Jack or Waiter. This year, it could be a major product of the offensive system Mike Brown ran which is the equivalent to the offensive system I used to run in the park when I was 12. I'm not a Kyrie fan. His stats say he is an 83-85, I'm not going to argue it. I'm just point out that, for the Cavs, Kyrie makes no one else on his team better, which, in my opinion, is the epitome of a true star. And in fairness, true stars get rated higher than 85's. No one that I've seen is asking for Kyrie to go up, I think everyone acknowledges he struggled this year, but we've seen some very high-end stats (and you can't get those stats unless you play pretty damn well) out of him and I'd just like to wait another half year to a year before we drop him is all. |
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