Phoenix - Houston

[Charles Barkley]

The Phoenix Suns and Houston Rockets have agreed to the following trade:

Phoenix Suns Send:

81 Eric Gordon (SG/PG)             $9,000,000       $9,990,000     $11,088,900     $12,308,679      $13,662,633
78 Spencer Hawes (C/PF)          $4,997,100       $5,117,000
75 Alonzo Gee (SG/SF)              $5,600,000       $5,725,000     $5,900,000      $6,000,000
2014 Phoenix Suns 1st Round Draft Pick

Salary Out:                              $19,597,100     $20,832,000    $16,988,900     $18,308,679       $13,662,633       

Phoenix Suns Projected Salary: $58,054,120      $44,660,124    $35,885,531     $17,900,992       $14,033,249

Houston Rockets Send:

84 Paul Millsap (PF)                       $18,975,880    $17,095,388     $15,401,250    $13,875,000      $12,500,000
79 Samuel Dalembert (C/PF)          $7,500,000      $7,500,000
78 Kawhi Leonard (SF)                   $1,887,840      $2,894,059       $4,045,894

Salary Out:                                   $28,363,720     $27,489,447     $19,447,14     $13,875,000      $12,500,000

Houston Rockets Projected Salary:  $52,680,396    $52,395,743     $23,809,028    $26,159,217      $18,851,618

[Charles Barkley]

The Houston Rockets accept this trade.

We are getting a quality young guard who we feel can blossom into a great scorer and also provide an insurance policy if one of our other young guards goes down with an injury. Gee has shown his talent on the defensive end throughout his career by often guarding the other teams best perimeter scorer and has also shown that he can put the ball in the basket when called upon to do so. Spencer Hawes is another young big man in the league that has great potential. The draft pick we are getting in return is valued very highly as we are in the process of rebuilding. With this trade, we get younger at key positions while maintaining cap flexibility in the coming years and will be able to acquire a solid rookie with the pick as well.

It is sad to see our players grow, but we are welcoming in this new era of Houston Rockets basketball. Make no mistake about this trade, Eric Bledsoe and Victor Oladipo are our future at the 1 and 2 but having a guy like Eric Gordon provides our coach with the line-up flexibility to put a starting 5 on the floor capable of winning games night in and night out.

If the trade passes, our new line up will be as follows:

C: Marc Gasol
PF: Spencer Hawes
SF: Victor Oladipo
SG: Eric Gordon
PG: Eric Bledsoe

We will be small in the back court but with Oladipo's elite athleticism, we can guard the best shooter's and wing men in the league while having the two gifted defenders in the front court.

[Dan Majerle]

I accept this trade.With this trade I do have a veteran front court and a young small forward that I could build around.

[Ian Noble]

Woah I'm really surprised you couldn't get more than that for a deal involving Kawhi Leonard, Charles.

What I don't understand is that this deal doesn't really help you begin a rebuild. You get the pick, but you also get some nasty contracts on mediocre/above average players that you're pretty tied to, and it's hard to see the pick being any higher than late-lottery, the way Phoenix's lineup looks after this, but I could be wrong.

I'm actually not sure about this one. I'm going to wait to hear from other TC members.

[Charles Barkley]

Considering the picks are all owned by you, Brian, and James, I was just happy to be able to get another projected lottery pick. While their salaries are high, I feel down the road they will be cheap compared to how they will be playing. Kind of a projected future value versus their future salary; felt it would provide good value when my team is gunning for the big dogs in the West.

[Andrei Kirilenko]

What the end goal here Houston? You're giving up Milsap, so it would seem like you aren't trying to win-now. Yet, you're also giving up Kawhi for pennies on the dollar, so it seems like you aren't rebuilding either.

[Dan Majerle]

I think salary wise Houston would be flexible, Millsap has a huge salary which is equivalent of Lebron and Durant but talent wise he is not equal to those two. I'm willing to gamble to get his services since it would hard for me to compete getting quality big man.

[Alex English]

I really don't like this trade. I think Charles is practically giving away Kawhi Leonard and there is definitely a better deal out there. I also don't think Eric Gordon is that great and the only good piece of return is the pick.

I have huge conflict of interest issues with this trade though. So I'm not sure I should vote on this one.

[Jeremiah Hill]

In my mind the simple fact of the matter is that Houston wants to rebuild. And Khawi's value is only what he can get for him, Houston wants to unload Millsap, Boston isn't going to hurt their tank effort by taking Millsap neither are any of the other 20 tanking teams. Phoenix has a plan to rebuild saying that Khawi is a better player than he can get at the 10-15 pick. Charles believes he can get a better player at that spot than Khawi.

[Walt Frazier]

I don't really like this. I know that Houston sees Millsap as a negative with his contract, but really by next year he's only slightly overpaid and then he becomes about appropriately paid and maybe even a bargain by the end of his contract. Kawhi is an awesome piece as well. Eric Gordon is the worse contract IMO out of all the contracts in this deal. His injuries are a big worry and he's not the same player he once was when he does play.

I'm leaning on a reject personally. I wouldn't move Kawhi alone for that entire package, b/c I don't think anything the Suns give up is really worth that much. I think for this to work you have to believe Millsap is a big negative, and I don't see it.

Will let this stew a little before giving a final vote though.

[Charles Barkley]

Apr 2, 2014 12:04:58 GMT Andrei Kirilenko said:

What the end goal here Houston? You're giving up Milsap, so it would seem like you aren't trying to win-now. Yet, you're also giving up Kawhi for pennies on the dollar, so it seems like you aren't rebuilding either.

I don't understand how its pennies on the dollar for Kawhi. In my eyes, it was Gee and the pick for Kawhi, no one is exactly giving up lottery picks easily. Plus Gee night in and night out guarded the best perimeter player against the Cavs. Sure, his stats have declined since the Deng trade, but last season, in ~ 30 minutes a night, he went 10/4/1.5 pts, boards and assist.

My break down of the rest of the trade went like this:

On Dalembert, I wasn't planning to pick up the option; On Hawes, I will and see what he does next year with the Cavs, so in my book, that was a win.

Millsap I've fielded offers on him for about a month now. Trading him is hard because the teams that need a PF are over the cap and have to give back loads of salary which is going to lead to inflated contracts anyways and here, at least, I am getting three 26 or younger guys I like. The majority of the salary is Gordon, who I like a lot. He doesn't do a lot of things great, but what he does is well is score. I feel like in year 5 of his deal, ~13.5 million won't mean a whole lot because I will have made my signings in previous years where I have cap room or in the draft and bird rights after.

[Jeremiah Hill]

Is anyone going to give Charles their lottery pick AND take Millsap for Khawi I'm sure he'd love a PM about it.

[Jeremiah Hill]

Because I sure as hell ain't doing that.

[Charles Barkley]

I think a lot of the "controversy" comes down to two things: Millsap versus Gordon and Kawhi's value.

Here's my viewpoint on them since I don't really feel like working. I know a lot of people around the league are high on Millsap. I am not one of them. I hate Paul Millsap. It isn't about the money; I wouldn't like him on his rookie deal. He's a 6'9 PF who can only play the high post opposite a big man underneath. He excels when paired with a good center, i.e. Utah and Al or Atlanta and the other Al. Don't get me wrong, he is good; he's in his prime while my vision of the Rockets has us headed in opposite directions. I had a lot of offers for him, I felt like this one was the best. Mainly because I got Gordon. I don't think Gordon will be a franchise shooting guard. But what I do think is that he can be a good energy scorer off the bench in 2017 when I'm pushing for a top seed. He's a Jamal Crawford type guy; you trust him with the rock when the guards get into foul trouble and he provides a spark. The 13.5 million salary is an after thought because I won't need salary cap room going into that year. I'll have made my moves in the previous year and would have 14 million in salary anyways from Millsap or whatever I would get for him in another deal.

Now, Kawhi is a fine young player. But it isn't like the other GM's gunning for the lottery were coming out of the woodwork to make that swap. I've talked to more than 2 GM's about trading Kawhi and 2 of them said they likely wouldn't trade him for their lottery pick. An object only has as much value as it commands, that's the free market. And right now, this isn't a seller's market so maybe I am getting less value than what Kawhi could command if everything else were equal. But, I'd be missing out on getting a good pick in the deepest draft of the last 20 years. Therefore, I feel like this was good for me, Hell, I figured if it would get voted no, it would have been in the other direction.

[Ian Noble]

I'm going to give a reject.

There's no way in which Houston wins this trade.

We (the trade committee) do aspire to allow trades to pass if a team still has plenty of assets, which is true of both teams here, but I think that since you're both still new GMs, I know I personally would like you to have a bit more experience under your belts before you make a trade that's as unbalanced as this one.

Phoenix, I'm really sorry I'm giving a reject. I'd be pretty angry if I got someone to accept a deal as one-sided as this one but it got rejected.

Chuck, I know you've spent a long time on this trade, but the end result is not in your favour no matter how you look at it. You can do a lot better. Kawhi alone is worth more than Phoenix's pick, that's why I was happy to offer you SAS 2015 1st, OKC 2014 1st & SAC 2015 1st for Kawhi in our other trade negotiations. Also if any other GMs think I'm rejecting due to a conflict of interest, in my own pursuits of Kawhi, I'm happy to accept some kind of bar on my trading for Kawhi, but I think most GMs will see this trade as so unbalanced it's realistic to reject.

[Bryan Colangelo]

I will reject. If this deal was for Mislap alone i would accept but adding Kawhi makes no sense for you Charles.

I get you like Spencer Hawes and Alonzo Gee but there chance they are worth Kawhi. How i see this deal

Mislap for 1st rounder, Eric Gordon and Alonzo Gee = fair for both sides

Then you have

Kawhi for Hawes, which makes no sense. Kawhi needs a rating increase and should be in the mid 80's.

That's how i see it, and i know you can get more for Kawhi.

[Jeremiah Hill]

SAS 2015 1st, OKC 2014 1st & SAC 2015 combined Are all worth less than a lottery pick in this season's draft. 

[Andrei Kirilenko]

I'm gonna reject as well. Houston just doesn't get enough in return.

[Alex English]

This whole shitstorm was for nothing lol. Phoenix traded his 2015 pick. He can't move that 2014 1st rounder.

[Dan Majerle]

I think the rule should modified regarding picks GS Orlando SAS Sacramento does not have 2 consecutive how come he was able to trade those?

[Bryan Colangelo]

Ian created that rule recently.

[Walt Frazier]

I'll put in an official reject for the reasons stated above, especially as Ian said I just don't see a way Houston wins this, like there is little to no upside at all.

Also, the talk about a lottery pick, that pick gets hurt a lot in this deal. May still be lotto-bound but this trade hurts the value of probably the best piece Houston gets, so that also makes no sense.

[Dan Majerle]

If we follow the NBA rules regarding trading picks I could still qualify in trading picks since I have NOP 1st round pick base: www.hoopsrumors.com/2013/12/trading-future-draft.html

[Deleted]

Apr 3, 2014 3:33:38 GMT Dan Majerle said:

I think the rule should modified regarding picks GS Orlando SAS Sacramento does not have 2 consecutive how come he was able to trade those?

Yes we do, we all own our 16 and 17 1sts which are consecutive.

[Jeremiah Hill]

PHX is correct, they have NOP pick so it doesn't matter.

[Walt Frazier]

It also "doesn't matter" in this case b/c that's 3 rejects.

[Ian Noble]

Apr 3, 2014 5:54:16 GMT Dan Majerle said:

If we follow the NBA rules regarding trading picks I could still qualify in trading picks since I have NOP 1st round pick base: www.hoopsrumors.com/2013/12/trading-future-draft.html

Sorry Dan, we don't follow the NBA exactly in this respect.

We found that too many GMs traded away all their picks as well as all their talent, so if we make them keep half their picks, at least there would be some high-value assets on their team if they left and someone else took over.

[Jeremiah Hill]

Apr 4, 2014 20:29:50 GMT Ian Noble said:

Apr 3, 2014 5:54:16 GMT Dan Majerle said:

If we follow the NBA rules regarding trading picks I could still qualify in trading picks since I have NOP 1st round pick base: www.hoopsrumors.com/2013/12/trading-future-draft.html

Sorry Dan, we don't follow the NBA exactly in this respect.

We found that too many GMs traded away all their picks as well as all their talent, so if we make them keep half their picks, at least there would be some high-value assets on their team if they left and someone else took over.

I'm assuming the guy who last owned my team was the inspiration for that rule.

[Ian Noble]

Apr 5, 2014 22:04:14 GMT Jeremiah Hill said:

Apr 4, 2014 20:29:50 GMT Ian Noble said:

Sorry Dan, we don't follow the NBA exactly in this respect.

We found that too many GMs traded away all their picks as well as all their talent, so if we make them keep half their picks, at least there would be some high-value assets on their team if they left and someone else took over.

I'm assuming the guy who last owned my team was the inspiration for that rule.

One of them!

The only problem is - you can't stop them instantly trading away their draft picks once they're drafted!