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Post by Walt Frazier on Apr 2, 2014 2:40:39 GMT
Favors hasn't made quite the jump most people expected, but he has improved literally across the board.
Stat - Career vs This Season
Pts - 9.4 up to 12.9
Reb - 6.9 up to 8.8
Ast - 0.8 up to 1.2
Stl - 0.7 up to 1.0
Blk - 1.3 up to 1.5
FG% - 50.2 up to 51.2
FT% - 65.5 up to 66.7
Keep in mind, obviously, that his career #'s are actually higher b/c of this year being better, which is factored into his career #'s. So he's really improved more than those comparisons show. Now, the Jazz aren't great, pretty bad, but he's one of their only fairly consistent bright spots. And definitely one of their only defensive presences on the court.
Current Rating: 76
Suggested Rating: 82
He was underrated a little in my book based on what he was doing last season and now had improved quite a bit.
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Post by Mike Krzyzewski on Apr 2, 2014 3:18:12 GMT
Maybe 77
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Post by Walt Frazier on Apr 2, 2014 3:21:25 GMT
Cop out Billy. Pekovic got an increase to I believe 80 or 81.
Favors scores 4.5 points less than him, but plays much better defense. Favors with similar rebound, better assist, similar TO's, but 1.5 blocks compared to Pek's .4 and 1.0 steals compared to Pek's .6 shows a big difference. So, do Pek's 4.5 ppg make him worth 4-5 rating points better than Favors? What happens when we factor in that Favors gets 3x the blocks as Pek, and almost 2x the steals? Pek is more efficient, thus I'm not asking for an 80-81 like Pek got, I think overall he's slightly better, but 76 is too low for everything Favors does.
Wanna know how many players get 1.5 blocks, 1 steal, and 8.8 rebounds per game?
Anthony Davis, DeAndre Jordan, (Dwight almost does, very slightly less than 1 steal), Drummond, Noah, (Horford almost there, rebounds were a little low this season when he played). DaMarcus Cousins is just .2 blocks away from joining this group as well. AND, Derrick Favors.
So, that's 4 guys other than Favors who can do that, and 3 others who are right in that area as well. Favors has some offensive development to go through still, but that shows pretty clearly that he can do something that less than 10 players in the NBA can accomplish, and it's a combination of 3 very important stats.
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Post by Allen Iverson on Apr 2, 2014 6:07:54 GMT
I'll go with 77 too.
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Post by Shaquille O'Neal on Apr 2, 2014 7:43:42 GMT
79
People are sleeping a bit on Favors. 12.9/8.8/1.2/1.5/1.0
18.6 PER on a bad team. For comparison Zach Randolph is putting up an 18.4 PER this year.
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Apr 2, 2014 13:03:30 GMT
77. He hasn't regressed as Enes Kanter has, but he sure hasn't improved much. He's still only 22, we gotta stop boosting guys too early
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Post by Danny Longley on Apr 2, 2014 13:19:42 GMT
I'd stay at 76-77 for the meantime, along with the increase in counting stats - he's also playing 7 more MPG.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Apr 2, 2014 14:35:02 GMT
I'd stay at 76-77 for the meantime, along with the increase in counting stats - he's also playing 7 more MPG. Good point, he's actually earned minutes unlike someone like Marreese Speights just as an example, someone being talked about. (I know that wasn't your actual point, I am twisting it, but yes, he is putting up better stats in more minutes, both good things. I've seen guys get more minutes and crumble/get exposed, and put up the same stats or even worse. He's handling an increased role well...and on a bad team he's one of the only bright spots). Could we get a Favors vs. Jordan Hill argument going here? I don't think Hill is better than Favors. |
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Apr 2, 2014 14:42:30 GMT
I don't understand Billy's argument 13/9 only being a 76, can we get a chart of guys averaging worse than that who are rated higher (Bogut comes to mind). Now Favors is an interesting case, because I feel like alot of his OVR is made up of his physical abilities (Or at least should be) and having his inside shot and rebounding go up a smidge wouldn't seem out of the question.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Apr 2, 2014 15:13:41 GMT
I don't understand Billy's argument 13/9 only being a 76, can we get a chart of guys averaging worse than that who are rated higher (Bogut comes to mind). Now Favors is an interesting case, because I feel like alot of his OVR is made up of his physical abilities (Or at least should be) and having his inside shot and rebounding go up a smidge wouldn't seem out of the question. All there is to understand is that Billy still doesn't like me. On another note, a lot of times a one or two point increase is something Ian shies away from, but with our big man ratings (not just Favors, all the guys I've put up and will summarize shortly), a couple points down for 10 guys and a couple points up for a few other guys makes a big difference and helps the league be much more realistic. 13/9/1.5/1 on 51.2% shooting and he's actually an OK FT% guy for a big at 67%. He's a good distance better than guys like Miles Plumlee (who I also like), DeJuan Blair, Marreese Speights, Carl Landry, who are some recent stock watch changes. Mini chart follows with 2013-14 Season Stats. Old>New Rating Player MPG FG% FT% PTS REB BLK STL PER | (76>?) Derrick Favors | 30:05 | 51.2% | 66.7% | 12.9 | 8.8 | 1.5 | 1.0 | 18.68 | | (71>76) Miles Plumlee | 24:48 | 50.9% | 55.6% | 8.2 | 7.9 | 1.2 | 0.6 | 14.51 | | (77>75) DeJuan Blair | 15:51 | 53.7% | 63.1% | 6.5 | 4.7 | 0.3 | 0.8 | 17.00 | | (76>74) Marreese Speights | 11:36 | 43.6% | 83.5% | 5.9 | 3.4 | 0.5 | 0.1 | 15.54 | | (78>76) Carl Landry | 12:56 | 51.7% | 82.4% | 4.2 | 3.2 | 0.1 | 0.2 | 11.27
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So we've got 5 guys there. I would say that Plumlee/Blair/Speights/Landry all belong around the 74-76 range right now...more or less. I might think slightly different on a couple guys but they are close to each other when you consider everything. But Favors is clearly better. Right there with any of them on FG%, more points, more rebounds, more blocks, more steals, and a better PER. He's not as good of a fT% guy as Speights or Landry but he takes everything else. I honestly think anyone giving below a 78 is kind of off their rocker or not in touch with the ratings in this league or real life performance and the concept of defense. |
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Post by Danny Longley on Apr 2, 2014 16:22:45 GMT
Best I can give you at the moment is a clean 77. Having "earned" minutes is a tough sell considering his competition is the star-studded group of Biedrins, Jeremy Evans and Marvin Williams.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Apr 2, 2014 16:33:22 GMT
Don't you talk about Jeremy Evans like that.
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Post by Bryan Colangelo on Apr 2, 2014 23:37:41 GMT
77
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Chris Mullin
 Golden State Warriors
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Post by Chris Mullin on Apr 3, 2014 0:22:09 GMT
77
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Post by Walt Frazier on Apr 3, 2014 1:19:38 GMT
Best I can give you at the moment is a clean 77. Having "earned" minutes is a tough sell considering his competition is the star-studded group of Biedrins, Jeremy Evans and Marvin Williams. I did say earned minutes but my other point was he actually improved whereas we've seen guys get minutes and crumble and get exposed. Favors has not thrived by any means or I'd be asking for a rating in the 80's, but he's done well and shown he can handle the minutes and produce a unique set of statistics via his unique set of skills. |
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Post by Alex English on Apr 3, 2014 2:20:29 GMT
Favors is damn good. He deserves that 79 imo.
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Apr 3, 2014 3:33:33 GMT
80
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Post by Mike Krzyzewski on Apr 3, 2014 3:47:37 GMT
I change my vote to 78 (up from 77) based on other ratings.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Apr 4, 2014 14:59:53 GMT
Anymore ratings here? Right now it's looking like a 77.78, which equals a 78 for Favors.
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Post by Clyde Drexler on Apr 5, 2014 20:58:56 GMT
78
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Post by Walt Frazier on Apr 8, 2014 16:04:02 GMT
Got an 80 from Barkley and a 79 from Jeremiah... Also a 100 from Jeremiah :-p. 83 from Vlade.
Those were just posted in the last day or so in an old Favors thread.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Apr 8, 2014 16:13:02 GMT
With these new ratings Favors comes out to a 78.46 = 78.5 = 79
No I did not factor Jeremiah's 100 at all lol
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Apr 8, 2014 16:35:48 GMT
I didn't put a 100 in this thread actually. I will say 79 though.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Apr 8, 2014 23:45:26 GMT
What? You aren't factoring in all the ratings.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Apr 8, 2014 23:46:44 GMT
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Post by Walt Frazier on Apr 8, 2014 23:49:43 GMT
76-77-77-77-77-77-78-78-79-79-79-80-80-82-83 = 78.46 - 78.5 - 79
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Post by Clyde Drexler on Apr 9, 2014 0:28:15 GMT
76-77-77-77-77-77-78-78-79-79-79-80-80-82- 83 = 78.46 - 78.5 - 79That 83 doesn't count and your suggested rating of 82 doesn't count either, suggested ratings have NEVER counted and you know that. Stop skewing with the ratings. 76-77-77-77-77-77-78-78-79-79-79-80- 80= 78Again, you overrate all your players and will go to any extent for your players to either maintain their ratings (Ricky Rubio) or get a rating increase (Derrick Favors) Walt's rating should get counted? |
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Post by Alex English on Apr 9, 2014 0:28:58 GMT
your suggested rating of 82 doesn't count either, suggested ratings have NEVER counted and you know that. Suggested ratings count. Why wouldn't the vote of the person who started the thread count when everyone else's vote counts? |
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Post by Walt Frazier on Apr 9, 2014 1:03:43 GMT
No, just the highest and lowest rating get eliminated Billy.
And, Ian has already stated that Vlade's ratings count.
Sorry buddy.
Favors is a 79
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Post by Walt Frazier on Apr 9, 2014 1:15:39 GMT
I've been keeping track of the ratings the correct way, no worries.
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