Joakim Noah

[Jeremiah Hill]

Having an all-nba worthy season. Boost his passing and onball defense till he's at least an 87-88. (Dude was guarding LBJ one on one a few times and wasn't too slow to guard him)

[James Kay]

Yeah. I would go 88-89. He's truly become the leader of this Bulls squad. That defense on Lebron was something else to watch. His feet are so quick for a big man, and he's probably the #1 passing Center/PF in the league. Not to mention he's like 5th or 4th in offensive rebounding.

[Alex English]

This is a little much. What the hell will we raise to get him up to an 88? Yea his defense and passing are fantastic. He's probably the best perimeter defending post player, but I'd consider Hibbert and Sanders to be better post defenders, which is more important since he's a center. His offense is terrible though. He's averaging 12.2 ppg and it's a career high. He's not efficient either at just 48.5%, which is a really bad FG% for a center. I don't think it's possible to get his overall rating up to an 88 without hugely overrating his offensive skills. I think he is fine at 83.

[Deleted]

99; what's in Cleveland?

[Jeremiah Hill]

Hey, don't talk about Cleveland like that. I'm sorry, his FG% has gone down a bit because he's been asked to carry a larger load than a non-offensive Center should take, and he's taking more mid-rangers now. What's impressive to me is that he has upped his steals and his assists. Taken on a much higher offensive role than he should have and it hasn't KILLED his %.

I don't know what you mean by he's a bad post up defender? He's above average. And who cares, how many back to the scoring basket post centers are even in the NBA anymore? 4? Lopez, Dwight (laughably), Pau Gasol, and Zach Randolph and he's a PF. Duncan. Ok 5 back to the basket post scoring centers if we count Randolph playing Center for a few minutes a game when Marc Gasol was out. ummmm LBJ is a better back to the basket player than 90 percent of the centers in the league.

[Jeremiah Hill]

You up his passing and offensive awareness by 5-6 points each. Up his offensive rebounding by like 2, his steal and on ball/off-ball defense by 5 each. Boom he should be like around 86 - 88.

[Allen Iverson]

87-88. He is not an offensive center to start with. Consider also the absence of Rose being injured and Deng being traded for his stats. Thibs too has done a terrific job with Chicago's current lineup.

[Brian Scalabrine]

I love Joakim but 88 is too high. He doesn't have the scoring repertoire that Dwight has, even if thats just slamming it down every time, and while he isn't as good a rebounder either. I think 86 is a good rating for him that balances his incredible defensive abilities and savant like passing with his limited scoring a bad for a big man fg%.

[Deleted]

In all honesty, he deserves to go up....maybe an 85.

[Jeremiah Hill]

You can raise quickness, passing, on-ball D, steals. Dwight's ratings should be based primarily on his athleticism than any sort of finesse. He converts on post ups at a pretty low rate if I'm not mistaken. He's a pick and roll player.

[Alex English]

It's laughable to have Noah anywhere near an 88. He is way too limited on offense. More than 3 feet away from the rim he shoots just 35.8%. That's terrible. If you think that's skewed by long twos it's not. From 3 to 10 feet he shoots only 36.4%. He's not even good at the rim either. Under 3 feet away from the basket he shoots 60.0%. That is an important number for post players on offense because the vast majority of their shots are lay-ups and dunks. I'll show you how much Noah sucks at post offense.



^{FG% At Rim
Marcin Gortat - 75.5%
Al Horford - 75.4%
Dirk Nowitzki - 75.0%
Blake Griffin - 73.8%
Dwight Howard - 72.7%
Serge Ibaka - 72.3%
Chris Kaman - 72.0%
Chris Bosh - 71.9%
Marc Gasol - 71.6%
Derrick Favors - 70.4%
Amir Johnson - 69.8%
Anthony Davis - 69.6%
John Henson - 68.9%
Brook Lopez - 68.0%
Pau Gasol - 67.6%
Tim Duncan - 66.8%
Al Jefferson - 66.7%
David Lee - 66.5%
DeMarcus Cousins - 66.5%
Thaddeus Young - 65.4%
Jordan Hill - 65.2%
JJ Hickson - 63.8%
Jonas Valanciunas - 63.3%
Nikola Pekovic - 63.2%
Greg Monroe - 62.9%
Enes Kanter - 62.5%
Taj Gibson - 62.2%
Joakim Noah - 60.0%
Nene Hilario - 57.9%
Tristan Thompson - 57.2%
Larry Sanders - 57.1%
Roy Hibbert - 56.7%}



That's most of the decent post players in the NBA right there and Noah is one of the worst on the list. No one around him even comes close a high 80s rating that you guys want and there is a reason for that. The only notable player he's above is Hibbert he is a better post defender than him imo though less mobile. He's a valid comparison to Noah and his rating is 81.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

85

[Jeremiah Hill]

Cut out the non-starters and add a bit of analysis to the situation and it looks like this:

Marcin Gortat - 75.5% - Elite Point Guard
Al Horford - 75.4% - Great Point Guard
Dirk Nowitzki - 75.0% - All-time Great
Blake Griffin - 73.8% - Elite Point Guard/Fast Break Team
Dwight Howard - 72.7% - Just a damn good player
Serge Ibaka - 72.3% - Plays off of KD
Chris Bosh - 71.9% - Great player, plays off of Elite PG in LBJ
Marc Gasol - 71.6% - Great Point Guard
Derrick Favors - 70.4% - Fast paced young team good for him.
Anthony Davis - 69.6% - Great Point Guard
Brook Lopez - 68.0% - Elite (arguably) Point Guard
Pau Gasol - 67.6% - Great player
Tim Duncan - 66.8% - All-time Great Elite Point Guard
Al Jefferson - 66.7% - Great post player who stinks on D
David Lee - 66.5% - Elite Point Guard
DeMarcus Cousins - 66.5% - Is there by himself maybe this stat would look better if he had an Elite Point Guard
Thaddeus Young - 65.4% - Fast break offense doesn't play in the post anyways
Jonas Valanciunas - 63.3% - Barely breaks 30 mins in the rotation and also Great PG
Nikola Pekovic - 63.2% - Elite Point Guard (at least passing)
Greg Monroe - 62.9% - I wonder if this went down after they got Brandon Jennings
Enes Kanter - 62.5% - Same as Favors
Joakim Noah - 60.0% - DJ Augustine
Nene Hilario - 57.9% - Elite Point Guard
Tristan Thompson - 57.2% - Elite Point Guard
Roy Hibbert - 56.7% - Just not a great offensive player but we all knew that.

Was Noah ever on a team with an elite PG? Derrick Rose was a great scorer and shot the ball like 30 times a game so I'm gonna say no at least not on the facilitating front. You can increase his passing skills to really great levels because he's honestly a better passer than most of the PGs in the league. The sim isn't going to have him running the ball up the floor or something like that.

All of that aside:

He is getting 1.9 assists per game in the Sim he averages like 4-5 in real life. I don't care what the overall is I just want the stat to match as best we can. If that means giving him an 85 in passing that's fine because if I was gonna trade for Joakim Noah, I want the guy who can play good D and pass.

But as it stands right now he's just a 40% shooting Center in the sim who doesn't do crap.

[Alex English]

I think you are kind of grasping at straws here. What you said for Hibbert is exactly what should be said for Noah. He's "just not a great offensive player but we all knew that." Also I'd like to see the stats that show having a better point guard improves FG% at the rim. Here are the stats for Noah's career and his point guard that year:

07-08: 56.4% - Kirk Hinrich
08-09: 57.3% - Derrick Rose
09-10: 57.8% - Derrick Rose
10-11: 55.9% - Derrick Rose
11-12: 59.6% - Derrick Rose/CJ Watson
12-13: 57.9% - Nate Robinson/Kirk Hinrich

So Noah is shooting a career high at the rim this season. At just 60.0%.

I think Noah is awesome and is one of the best defenders at his position. But he is pretty limited at anything else. Without knowing his current rating I would give him at most an 83-84, very heavily skewed towards the defensive categories. So his current 83 is fine imo.

[Alex English]

Mar 13, 2014 21:53:19 GMT Jeremiah Hill said:

Greg Monroe - 62.9% - I wonder if this went down after they got Brandon Jennings

Nope.

10-11: 64.9%
11-12: 60.8%
12-13: 61.4%
13-14: 62.9%

He's improved slightly over the last few years, but still below his rookie year.

[Jeremiah Hill]

But you don't think he should be at least averaging close to his assist numbers in this game as he is in real life. Even if you don't raise his overall raise his assists like crazy. Maybe the game engine doesn't work that way to make a passing big man obviously a passing bigman in simulations.

[Alex English]

Mar 13, 2014 23:46:45 GMT Jeremiah Hill said:

But you don't think he should be at least averaging close to his assist numbers in this game as he is in real life. Even if you don't raise his overall raise his assists like crazy. Maybe the game engine doesn't work that way to make a passing big man obviously a passing bigman in simulations.

Maybe, I dunno, NBA Live has always sucked at simming assists though. Our league leaders are always like 7 or 8 it seems compared to the real NBA where someone is usually averaging 11+ apg.

[Jeremiah Hill]

I wasn't sure about that. 2K is pretty bad at rebounds I know that. Marc Gasol is averaging 2.9 so maybe put him at whatever passing he is at.

[Jeremiah Hill]

He's making Dwight Howard his bitch right now.

[Andrei Kirilenko]

Noah has played like an 87 for 2-3 weeks... let's wait til he sustains it a while before we make drastic changes

[Jeremiah Hill]

He's almost averaging 5 assists a game is all I wanted to point out. Which means his offensive awareness and passing should go up. Perhaps his offball and onball for when he gets on lower players. I think that would take him up to an 87. If it only takes him up to an 84 that's fine, I just want to make sure he plays like he's supposed to or at least as much as possible if the engine won't allow it.

[Clyde Drexler]

I love Noah and I'm a huge fan of his, but he shouldn't be an 88.

85 at tops

[Walt Frazier]

85 sounds like a max for me too.

BTW!

Joakim Noah - 4.9 assists
Kevin Love - 4.2 assists

Don't forget about KLove! Both guys have made some huge strides in their passing games.

[Bryan Colangelo]

i would say 84

[Mike Krzyzewski]

85